Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1471748357

just passing it on.....

also, i noticed this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1472611094



        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Until humankind opts for harmony with nature, over domination,
	 oneness over otherness, the seasons of death and destruction
	 will only escalate."
                -- Mumia Abu-Jamal

This has been asked before, but bear with me:

do the VZ'z offer a much different/better
sound than the CZ-101? If I have the latter, is it worth
considering the former?

thanks

Maxim

> This has been asked before, but bear with me:
>
> do the VZ'z offer a much different/better
> sound than the CZ-101? If I have the latter, is it worth
> considering the former?
=================================

IMHO -

better? no.

different? yes.

worth considering? if you have the time and money to play with a VZ synth,
go for it. my rule for buying synths, is don't pay more for it than you'll
get for it, if you decide you don't like it, and need to sell it.


        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Sure, it's going to kill a lot of people,
	 but they may be dying of something else anyway."
		-- Othal Brand,
		member of a Texas pesticide review board,
		comments on Chlordane

Yeah its worth it, especially if you can get the VZ8 for around $100~$200
and you have a decent PC editor that supports the 8m(its got one of those
tiny LCD screens that are no fun to edit with). It really is a very
different machine than the CZ and sounds accordingly different, the VZs are
much much more like DX FM than CZ PD.  I wouldn't say the sound is
necessarily better, but can be much more complex, thicker and generally
weirder. Also where the CZ is dead easy and intuitive to program the VZ is
correspondingly difficult and counter intuitive. I always I had a lot of fun
noise making on my VZs though. 

Jon

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Maxim Potekhin [SMTP:maxim.potekhin@...]
	Sent:	Tuesday, October 09, 2001 2:01 PM
	To:	CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
	Subject:	Re: [CZsynth] not mine - VZ-8 auction

	This has been asked before, but bear with me:
	
	do the VZ'z offer a much different/better
	sound than the CZ-101? If I have the latter, is it worth
	considering the former?
	
	thanks
	
	Maxim
	
	
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Many thanks to Riben and Jon for useful info.

> It really is a very
> different machine than the CZ and sounds accordingly different, the VZs are
> much much more like DX FM than CZ PD.

All right, if I also have a DX-ish machine, is it fair to say the VZ won't
cover a lot more ground? I like collecting synths but at the same time
I don't like redundancy in my kit.

Thanks!

Maxim

it's been a few years since i (breifly) owned a VZ8m....

if one were to use just 2 of the 'operators' of it; how closely, and with
how much difficulty, could one emulate a CZ?

has anyone tried/done this?


	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"To consider yourself an environmentalist
	 and still eat meat is like saying you're
	 a philanthropist who doesn't give to charity"
		-- Howard Lyman

You can't do it as the PD algorithm the CZ uses works differently than the
VZ IPD one. They really are very very different synths.  

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Atom 'Smasher' [SMTP:atom@...]
	Sent:	Tuesday, October 09, 2001 2:13 PM
	To:	'CZsynth@yahoogroups.com'
	Subject:	RE: [CZsynth] not mine - VZ-8 auction

	it's been a few years since i (breifly) owned a VZ8m....
	
	if one were to use just 2 of the 'operators' of it; how closely, and
with
	how much difficulty, could one emulate a CZ?
	
	has anyone tried/done this?
	
	
	      ...atom
	
	----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
	http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r
<http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r>   Yamaha FS1R
	
	      "To consider yourself an environmentalist
	      and still eat meat is like saying you're
	      a philanthropist who doesn't give to charity"
	            -- Howard Lyman
	
	
	
	
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> All right, if I also have a DX-ish machine, is it fair to say the VZ won't
> cover a lot more ground? I like collecting synths but at the same time
> I don't like redundancy in my kit.
====================================

it sounds different than most of the yamaha FM synths, and has some
different tricks.

of the yamaha's, it probably sounds closest to the TX81z.

you might try it, and decide that it will replace your FM and your PD
synths!



        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Scrubbing floors and emptying bedpans has as much dignity
	 as the Presidency."
		-- Richard Nixon

That's a tough one. I don't have any old DXs but apart from the e. pianos,
bell and vibe patches(which every late 80's era synth felt the need to
imitate) the VZ sounds different than the DX presets on my FS1R. I've never
spent a whole lot of time listening and programming DX synths so my opinion
might not be the most valid on this. I can say that the VZ sounds a whole
lot more interesting than the FM on my old soundblaster card though!!  8  )

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Maxim Potekhin [SMTP:maxim.potekhin@...]
	Sent:	Tuesday, October 09, 2001 2:13 PM
	To:	CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
	Subject:	Re: [CZsynth] not mine - VZ-8 auction

	Many thanks to Riben and Jon for useful info.
	
	> It really is a very
	> different machine than the CZ and sounds accordingly different,
the VZs are
	> much much more like DX FM than CZ PD.
	
	All right, if I also have a DX-ish machine, is it fair to say the VZ
won't
	cover a lot more ground? I like collecting synths but at the same
time
	I don't like redundancy in my kit.
	
	Thanks!
	
	Maxim
	
	
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i'm trying to remember what exactly was my big turn-off to the VZ8m that i
had.....

there was some parameter that i thought could be set for each 'operator',
but when i got the synth, i found out that it was a setting that affected
all operators, within the patch.

anybody know what i'm think of???
(i don't)

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	Where is Lee Harvey Oswald now that we really need him?
		-- Bumper Sticker

Jon,

> the VZ sounds different than the DX presets on my FS1R.

I see I also have the FS1R so your answer is right on the
money. Thanks!

> I can say that the VZ sounds a whole
> lot more interesting than the FM on my old soundblaster card though!!  8  )

Jon, _anything_ sounds better than the FM on the old soundblaster  :)))))))
Including digitized sound of flatulence  :)

cheers

Maxim

My guess would be the pitch envelope. The steady state pitch is independant
for each osc, but the pitch envelope only applies to all 8 oscs at the same
time. Kind of a bummer but not a show stopper for me. 

My first improvement on the VZ would be looping envelope points and my
second would be a fix for the processing slow down that happens when a lot
of MIDI data gets passed through the VZ (even if its on a different channel
than the VZ). This is something that Max should know, don't put the VZ on a
MIDI cable that has a lot of CC or pitchbend activity as apparently all MIDI
messages are decoded by the CPU before the unit decides whether or not it
needs to respond to a particular message.  So if you're wailing away on your
K5kS knobs  and all that data is passing through the VZ, the VZ will slow
down, miss notes and generally misbehave. I have all my VZs and CZs on their
own MIDI port to avoid this trouble.  

Jon

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Atom 'Smasher' [SMTP:atom@...]
	Sent:	Tuesday, October 09, 2001 2:32 PM
	To:	'CZsynth@yahoogroups.com'
	Subject:	RE: [CZsynth] not mine - VZ-8 auction

	i'm trying to remember what exactly was my big turn-off to the VZ8m
that i
	had.....
	
	there was some parameter that i thought could be set for each
'operator',
	but when i got the synth, i found out that it was a setting that
affected
	all operators, within the patch.
	
	anybody know what i'm think of???
	(i don't)
	
	      ...atom
	
	----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
	http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r
<http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r>   Yamaha FS1R
	
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> My guess would be the pitch envelope. The steady state pitch is independant
> for each osc, but the pitch envelope only applies to all 8 oscs at the same
> time. Kind of a bummer but not a show stopper for me.
=======================================================

yeah, that sounds right....  maybe if i get some time (and money) i'll
pick up another VZ, and play with it again....


        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?"
		-- Ursula K. LeGuin

Thanks. My rig is choke full of CC messages, so I should be
careful with the Casio gear. I didn't know that. I have another
couple of synth that go bananas once in while because of that.


"Furman, Jon W." wrote:

> 
> don't put the VZ on a
> MIDI cable that has a lot of CC or pitchbend activity as apparently all MIDI
> messages are decoded by the CPU before the unit decides whether or not it
> needs to respond to a particular message.  So if you're wailing away on your
> K5kS knobs  and all that data is passing through the VZ, the VZ will slow
> down, miss notes and generally misbehave. I have all my VZs and CZs on their
> own MIDI port to avoid this trouble.

Hey Max don't make me laugh so hard while I'm at work!! Security just came
up here to try and escort me out of the building.

Actually some DOS programmers way way back in the day were able to program
decent sound sets for the FM on the original soundblaster, but this was very
rare. I remember the original Dune PC game (the Virgin one) as having a very
good SB FM soundtrack, and there were a few others out there that weren't
but so bad. What really totally killed FM on the SB was the default GM
soundset that came with Windows 3.1, it was awful and was not improved in
Win95 or after either. Invariably every Win game or program that used midi
tried to use the default Windows GM which used this awful soundset. I don't
even think that you could change the FM soundset in windows if you wanted
to. I think that this soundset is what everyone thinks of when they think of
SB FM. I actually remember running my SB through my stereo and turning up
some of those old DOS games they sounded so cool. Oh well those were the
days...      

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Maxim Potekhin [SMTP:maxim.potekhin@...]
	Sent:	Tuesday, October 09, 2001 2:40 PM
	To:	CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
	Subject:	Re: [CZsynth] not mine - VZ-8 auction

	Jon,
	
	> the VZ sounds different than the DX presets on my FS1R.
	
	I see I also have the FS1R so your answer is right on the
	money. Thanks!
	
	> I can say that the VZ sounds a whole
	> lot more interesting than the FM on my old soundblaster card
though!!  8  )
	
	Jon, _anything_ sounds better than the FM on the old soundblaster
:)))))))
	Including digitized sound of flatulence  :)
	
	cheers
	
	Maxim
	
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In my case it was the pitch envelope, but I can live having one for all
"operators"...

Summa

At 14:32 09.10.01 -0400, you wrote:
>i'm trying to remember what exactly was my big turn-off to the VZ8m that i
>had.....
>
>there was some parameter that i thought could be set for each 'operator',
>but when i got the synth, i found out that it was a setting that affected
>all operators, within the patch.
>
>anybody know what i'm think of???
>(i don't)
>
>	...atom
>
>----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
>http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
>	Where is Lee Harvey Oswald now that we really need him?
>		-- Bumper Sticker
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>

			     
           +                        
           +                       
           +     /\      /\         
        /\ +  /\/  \    /  \        
+++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \    /\  /\         /    O   
      /    \/        \/      \  /  \/  \ |   | /     |  /----
 /\  /     +                  \/        \\---/ ----  |  |
/  \/      +                  /\                  /     \----
           +                 /  \                / 
           +                 Nicknames  : Summa or SumGhost
           +                 AIM        : Flotorian
           +                 Born       : 1967
           +                 Profession : Student of Computer Science
           +	                     

A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
Casio CZ Synth Station      : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ 
CZ/VZ Mailinglist           : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth

Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!


_________________________________________________________
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On 9 Oct 01, at 16:04, Furman, Jon W. wrote:

> Hey Max don't make me laugh so hard while I'm at work!! Security just came
> up here to try and escort me out of the building.
> 
> Actually some DOS programmers way way back in the day were able to program
> decent sound sets for the FM on the original soundblaster, but this was
> very rare. I remember the original Dune PC game (the Virgin one) as having
> a very good SB FM soundtrack, and there were a few others out there that
> weren't but so bad. What really totally killed FM on the SB was the
> default GM soundset that came with Windows 3.1, it was awful and was not
> improved in Win95 or after either. Invariably every Win game or program
> that used midi tried to use the default Windows GM which used this awful
> soundset. I don't even think that you could change the FM soundset in
> windows if you wanted to. I think that this soundset is what everyone
> thinks of when they think of SB FM. I actually remember running my SB
> through my stereo and turning up some of those old DOS games they sounded
> so cool. Oh well those were the days...      
> 
The standard GM set used only 2 operators of the FM-chip. 
Software like KeyWest (which was included with a Commodore 
mini Midi-keyboard) was able to use all 4 operators and that was a 
big improvement. Only drums were weak.
---
Groeten G. Tiemens
gtnet@...

Hi Atom,

have you read my little VZ-1 tutorial, it shows the basis for doing those CZ
like FM sweeps. On the VZ they do sounds a bit warmer than the ones of the
80s FM synths, but still a lot different to the CZ-1. Anyway, who said the
CZ is using only 2 Ops per "Oscillator". Other than that the VZ can do thing
the CZ and most Yamaha FM synths can do. Especially using ringmodulation
togehter with FM is a fine thing. Having five saw type waveforms is nearly
like having feedback for every operator on an FM synth or like the skirt
parameter of the FS1R. Also (with some limitations) it's possible to create
your own algorithms and to layering 4 VZ sounds (don't know if the VZ-8 can
do this too) what can sound quite great...   

Summa


At 14:13 09.10.01 -0400, you wrote:
>it's been a few years since i (breifly) owned a VZ8m....
>
>if one were to use just 2 of the 'operators' of it; how closely, and with
>how much difficulty, could one emulate a CZ?
>
>has anyone tried/done this?
>
>
>	...atom
>
>----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
>http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
>	"To consider yourself an environmentalist
>	 and still eat meat is like saying you're
>	 a philanthropist who doesn't give to charity"
>		-- Howard Lyman
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>

			     
           +                        
           +                       
           +     /\      /\         
        /\ +  /\/  \    /  \        
+++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \    /\  /\         /    O   
      /    \/        \/      \  /  \/  \ |   | /     |  /----
 /\  /     +                  \/        \\---/ ----  |  |
/  \/      +                  /\                  /     \----
           +                 /  \                / 
           +                 Nicknames  : Summa or SumGhost
           +                 AIM        : Flotorian
           +                 Born       : 1967
           +                 Profession : Student of Computer Science
           +	                     

A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
Casio CZ Synth Station      : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ 
CZ/VZ Mailinglist           : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth

Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

> have you read my little VZ-1 tutorial, it shows the basis for doing those CZ
===================================

were is the tuturial?


	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"What luck for rulers, that men do not think."
		-- Adolf Hitler

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/files/VZ%20-%20DOCs/VZ%20Tutorial.txt

At 17:06 09.10.01 -0400, you wrote:
>> have you read my little VZ-1 tutorial, it shows the basis for doing those CZ
>===================================
>
>were is the tuturial?
>
>
>	...atom
>
>----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
>http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
>	"What luck for rulers, that men do not think."
>		-- Adolf Hitler
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>

			     
           +                        
           +                       
           +     /\      /\         
        /\ +  /\/  \    /  \        
+++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \    /\  /\         /    O   
      /    \/        \/      \  /  \/  \ |   | /     |  /----
 /\  /     +                  \/        \\---/ ----  |  |
/  \/      +                  /\                  /     \----
           +                 /  \                / 
           +                 Nicknames  : Summa or SumGhost
           +                 AIM        : Flotorian
           +                 Born       : 1967
           +                 Profession : Student of Computer Science
           +	                     

A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
Casio CZ Synth Station      : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ 
CZ/VZ Mailinglist           : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth

Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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All true. The VZ8 can do everything that the 10 can do but at 1/2 the
polyphony. In return though you get much better handling of stereo output
than the technique used on the CZ1/VZ1/VZ10. Also you can link multiple 8ms
together to get your polyphony back but I have never tried this. At some
point I think I will buy a few more old 8ms just to try this out.

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Summa [SMTP:flotorian@...]
	Sent:	Tuesday, October 09, 2001 4:53 PM
	To:	CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
	Subject:	RE: [CZsynth] not mine - VZ-8 auction

	Hi Atom,
	
	have you read my little VZ-1 tutorial, it shows the basis for doing
those CZ
	like FM sweeps. On the VZ they do sounds a bit warmer than the ones
of the
	80s FM synths, but still a lot different to the CZ-1. Anyway, who
said the
	CZ is using only 2 Ops per "Oscillator". Other than that the VZ can
do thing
	the CZ and most Yamaha FM synths can do. Especially using
ringmodulation
	togehter with FM is a fine thing. Having five saw type waveforms is
nearly
	like having feedback for every operator on an FM synth or like the
skirt
	parameter of the FS1R. Also (with some limitations) it's possible to
create
	your own algorithms and to layering 4 VZ sounds (don't know if the
VZ-8 can
	do this too) what can sound quite great...   
	
	Summa
	
	
	At 14:13 09.10.01 -0400, you wrote:
	>it's been a few years since i (breifly) owned a VZ8m....
	>
	>if one were to use just 2 of the 'operators' of it; how closely,
and with
	>how much difficulty, could one emulate a CZ?
	>
	>has anyone tried/done this?
	>
	>
	>      ...atom
	>
	>----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
	> http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r
<http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r>   Yamaha FS1R
	>
	>      "To consider yourself an environmentalist
	>      and still eat meat is like saying you're
	>      a philanthropist who doesn't give to charity"
	>            -- Howard Lyman
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
	>CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
	>
	> 
	>
	>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  
	>
	>
	
	                       
	           +                        
	           +                       
	           +     /\      /\         
	        /\ +  /\/  \    /  \        
	+++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \    /\  /\         /    O   
	      /    \/        \/      \  /  \/  \ |   | /     |  /----
	/\  /     +                  \/        \\---/ ----  |  |
	/  \/      +                  /\                  /     \----
	           +                 /  \                / 
	           +                 Nicknames  : Summa or SumGhost
	           +                 AIM        : Flotorian
	           +                 Born       : 1967
	           +                 Profession : Student of Computer
Science
	           +                           
	
	A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
<http://www.mp3.com/AToF/> 
	Casio CZ Synth Station      : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/
<http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/>  
	CZ/VZ Mailinglist           : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth> 
	
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i'm trying to remember if there was something else i didn't like about the
VZ8m.....

is there something, like if you select "noise" as a waveform for one of
the operators, then the other operator in that pair also becomes noise???

can an operator pair have a one operator with a noise wave, and the other
operator with a non-noise wave?

it's been a while.....

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election
	 by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
		-- G. B. Shaw

Yup, you can use what ever waveforms you want in any combination. I think
that the waveforms are Sine, Saw1, Saw2, Saw3, Saw4, Saw 5, Noise 1, Noise
2. The saws basically have varying degrees of harmonic content with Saw
1having the least. 

Jon

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Atom 'Smasher' [SMTP:atom@...]
	Sent:	Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:12 AM
	To:	CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
	Subject:	RE: [CZsynth] not mine - VZ-8 auction

	i'm trying to remember if there was something else i didn't like
about the
	VZ8m.....
	
	is there something, like if you select "noise" as a waveform for one
of
	the operators, then the other operator in that pair also becomes
noise???
	
	can an operator pair have a one operator with a noise wave, and the
other
	operator with a non-noise wave?
	
	it's been a while.....
	
	      ...atom
	
	----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
	http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r
<http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r>   Yamaha FS1R
	
	      "Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election
	      by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
	            -- G. B. Shaw
	
	
	
	
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Yep, you have that problem when you set two oscillators to phase. It seems
that you can't get the modulation below about 50%, even when you mute the
modulator. I guess Casio did this to double the resolution of the envelope,
since in most cases FM starts to get interesting on settings above 50%...  


At 09:11 10.10.01 -0400, you wrote:
>i'm trying to remember if there was something else i didn't like about the
>VZ8m.....
>
>is there something, like if you select "noise" as a waveform for one of
>the operators, then the other operator in that pair also becomes noise???
>
>can an operator pair have a one operator with a noise wave, and the other
>operator with a non-noise wave?
>
>it's been a while.....
>
>	...atom
>
>----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
>http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
>	"Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election
>	 by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
>		-- G. B. Shaw
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>

			     
           +                        
           +                       
           +     /\      /\         
        /\ +  /\/  \    /  \        
+++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \    /\  /\         /    O   
      /    \/        \/      \  /  \/  \ |   | /     |  /----
 /\  /     +                  \/        \\---/ ----  |  |
/  \/      +                  /\                  /     \----
           +                 /  \                / 
           +                 Nicknames  : Summa or SumGhost
           +                 AIM        : Flotorian
           +                 Born       : 1967
           +                 Profession : Student of Computer Science
           +	                     

A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
Casio CZ Synth Station      : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ 
CZ/VZ Mailinglist           : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth

Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!


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