Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

hi,

i just purchased a cz101 and unfortunately it seems to have some issues. When i play a 
chord, usually the third or fourth voice causes nasty crackle sounds. Adjusting
the volume doesn't help. It is fine in monophonic mode. 

sound example:  www.olilarkin.co.uk/temp/cz-crackle.mp3

Has anyone experienced this?

cheers,

oli

> i just purchased a cz101 and unfortunately it seems to have some issues. When i play a 
> chord, usually the third or fourth voice causes nasty crackle sounds. Adjusting
> the volume doesn't help. It is fine in monophonic mode. 


I'm experiencing something similar (on a CZ-3000) but much worse: extremely distorted 
output as if run through a distortion pedal.

I haven't yet, had the time to confirm it, but I have read reports (including some here) of a 
dirty relay that might be responsible. If this is true, maybe you have the same issue but to 
a lesser degree: ie yours just isn't yet as dirty.  I'd suggest you start with a can of Electrical 
Contact Cleaner:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q8C748?tag=fighfluo-
20&camp=15309&creative=331477&linkCode=st1&creativeASIN=B0006L2WYU&adid=09
HXXN5TQH1RHBS8QCE0
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HBGHXQ?tag=fighfluo-
20&camp=15309&creative=331477&linkCode=st1&creativeASIN=B0006L2WYU&adid=09
HXXN5TQH1RHBS8QCE0

Take a look at these posts:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/3084
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/3050

Regarding the fourth voice/monophonic mode,etc., offhand, my hunch is that the mode 
may not be an issue as much as it is the additional voices increase total output level.

does anyone know where the relay in question is located on the cz101?

cheers,

oli


--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "actionclaw" <actionclaw@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > i just purchased a cz101 and unfortunately it seems to have some issues. When i play 
a 
> > chord, usually the third or fourth voice causes nasty crackle sounds. Adjusting
> > the volume doesn't help. It is fine in monophonic mode. 
> 
> 
> I'm experiencing something similar (on a CZ-3000) but much worse: extremely 
distorted 
> output as if run through a distortion pedal.
> 
> I haven't yet, had the time to confirm it, but I have read reports (including some here) of 
a 
> dirty relay that might be responsible. If this is true, maybe you have the same issue but 
to 
> a lesser degree: ie yours just isn't yet as dirty.  I'd suggest you start with a can of 
Electrical 
> Contact Cleaner:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q8C748?tag=fighfluo-
> 
20&camp=15309&creative=331477&linkCode=st1&creativeASIN=B0006L2WYU&adid=09
> HXXN5TQH1RHBS8QCE0
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HBGHXQ?tag=fighfluo-
> 
20&camp=15309&creative=331477&linkCode=st1&creativeASIN=B0006L2WYU&adid=09

> HXXN5TQH1RHBS8QCE0
> 
> Take a look at these posts:
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/3084
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/3050
> 
> Regarding the fourth voice/monophonic mode,etc., offhand, my hunch is that the mode 
> may not be an issue as much as it is the additional voices increase total output level.
>

Though the guts are basically the same in all the CZ series, I doubt the parts placement is. At least in the CZ-3000, (with the board in front of you, keys closer to you, as if playing) I believe the relay is toward the rear on the left, at the rear of the lower circuit board. But that's where the line out & phone jacks are on the larger CZs. For the 101, I'd expect it would be near those same output jacks on the side right. I'm not certain but I think there is only one relay so if you locate any relay theres a real good chance you've found the right one.

i removed the relay and found that the distortion was still on the headphone output. The 
relay doesn't effect the headphone out. If i had read the circuit better i could have done 
this without removing it, doh :-) 

so now i'm wondering if i will be able to fix this. does anyone have a clue what other 
components might be at fault?

cheers,

oli





--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, ActionClaw <actionclaw@...> wrote:
>
> Though the guts are basically the same in all the CZ series, I doubt the parts placement 
is. At least in the CZ-3000, (with the board in front of you, keys closer to you, as if 
playing) I believe the relay is toward the rear on the left, at the rear of the lower circuit 
board. But that's where the line out & phone jacks are on the larger CZs. For the 101, I'd 
expect it would be near those same output jacks on the side right. I'm not certain but I 
think there is only one relay so if you locate any relay theres a real good chance you've 
found the right one.
>

Are you saying that, with the relay completely removed from the circuit, you DO still get output from headphone jack (but NOT from the line outs)?

> ..If i had read the circuit better i could have done this without removing it..

Do you have a service manual/schematic specifically for the CZ-101?

If yes, is it available online? Link?
If no, in this group there was recently a link to the CZ-5000 service manual that might prove helpful troubleshooting.



> does anyone have a clue what other components might be at fault?
Unfortunately, plenty. Is the distortion continuous or only upon each key down as if dirty key contacts? (That would be lucky!)

This is probably pretty obvious but I don't remember if you said whether or not you got the same result when controlled via another midi device: keyboard, sequencer, etc.

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "oli_larkin" <oli_larkin@...> wrote:
>> so now i'm wondering if i will be able to fix this. does anyone have 
a clue what other 
> components might be at fault?
> 
>

I barely recall encountering a similar problem when I had a cz-101, and 
I think I fixed it by re-initializing the synth to factory defaults, 
which I think is done by pressing a button underneath the synth.

yes, with the relay removed the headphone out still functions and i hear the same 
distortion on it.

The cz1000/cz101 schematic is here: 

http://casionova.org/casio_manuals/CZ1000ServiceManual.pdf

It is not the key contacts since controlling via midi i get the same distortion. It has to do 
with the cumulative volume of all the voices... so normally in mono mode i don't get any 
distortion. In poly mode when i play sounds with fast attacks...e.g. synth bass, if i play a 
couple of voices simultaneously it distorts. If i adjust the volume slider i still hear the 
distortion (just quieter)

the example here shows it:

http://www.olilarkin.co.uk/temp/cz-crackle.mp3

thanks,

oli


--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, ActionClaw <actionclaw@...> wrote:
>
> Are you saying that, with the relay completely removed from the circuit, you DO still get 
output from headphone jack (but NOT from the line outs)?
> 
> > ..If i had read the circuit better i could have done this without removing it..
> 
> Do you have a service manual/schematic specifically for the CZ-101?
> 
> If yes, is it available online? Link?
> If no, in this group there was recently a link to the CZ-5000 service manual that might 
prove helpful troubleshooting.
> 
> 
> 
> > does anyone have a clue what other components might be at fault?
> Unfortunately, plenty. Is the distortion continuous or only upon each key down as if 
dirty key contacts? (That would be lucky!)
> 
> This is probably pretty obvious but I don't remember if you said whether or not you got 
the same result when controlled via another midi device: keyboard, sequencer, etc.
>

tried that... no good :-(




--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "zoinky420" <zoinky420@...> wrote:

>
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "oli_larkin" <oli_larkin@> wrote:
> >> so now i'm wondering if i will be able to fix this. does anyone have 
> a clue what other 
> > components might be at fault?
> > 
> >
> 
> I barely recall encountering a similar problem when I had a cz-101, and 
> I think I fixed it by re-initializing the synth to factory defaults, 
> which I think is done by pressing a button underneath the synth.
>

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "oli_larkin" <oli_larkin@...> wrote:
>
> tried that... no good :-(
> 
> 

Hmm I think there might have been a trick to it, like make sure the 
batteries are in or out when doing it.  I seriously think I had the 
exact same problem, every fourth key on the keyboard was distorted.  
But it was 5 or 6 years ago and I can't remember the specifics of 
fixing it.