Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

**************************************************
Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want to get more into it.
**************************************************

The long version:

This is a discussion that has been repeated several times but although we have talked about it we have done nothing nothing to fix it yet.

Like the difference between playing with a stuffed dog and a live one, synths are a lot more fun if they can edited in realtime with knobs or faders. That is the only reason I use my JX8P+PG800 a lot more than I use my CZ-1. The CZ-1, just some software running on a slow 8 bit CPU, sounds more interesting to me than the JX-8P with its 8 expensive and hard to replace filter chips, but there's something it can't do: with other synts I use a cotton swab to keep one key pressed and have incredible fun playing that single note all night, moving from places like a rave party in an alien space ship, the insides of the Krakatoa, a bee hive, etc.

I have a BCF2000 thing (8 good quality motorized faders and 8 encoder knobs MIDI controller), a bargain for 100USD. Programming it is easy but the problem with using anything like it with the CZs is that CZs don't accept individual CC messages for changing most synth parameters. This could be changed via a software upgrade on a spare 4USD Eprom. If the Eprom is socketed, replacing it with a new one is something anyone could do in a couple of minutes, if not, good soldering skills are required but any experienced repairman could unsolder the chip and solder a socket in its position for painless upgrades.

Assembly language / embedded programming is (still) my job and giving a fix to the CZ software would be only fun for me. I would do it immediately but I don't have the patience to find the documentation for the CPU in the CZ and the corresponding assembler / disassembler software. I briefly searched for them online but I couldn't find them.

**************************************************
Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want to get more into it.
**************************************************

Joaquim

i believe they all have similar rom dumps , the editor i have to edit the
cz101 will work on a cz1000 too along with the cz101 and i think the cz1

the cz101 i have won't permit "real time" handling , cause every time a
parameter is changed it re signals a new note out.

i haven't got all to far with my cz101 editor  for the sysex message because
its difficult to mix my graphics coding with the data coding (gui with the
internal )

but would be more than interested in helping with the parts you can't
undersatnd

this sounds like a great project , i hope to keep alive .

so you want to use a behringer to control the sysex of the cz101 , or do you
want to program  a pc program with sliders and knobs to control the sounds
of the cz101 etc etc.?


charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "-" <jdcx64@...>
To: <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: [CZsynth] Realtime synth parameters control with faders like
BCF2000 / BCR2000


> **************************************************
> Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a
ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a
software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth
parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom
firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want
to get more into it.
> **************************************************
>
> The long version:
>
> This is a discussion that has been repeated several times but although we
have talked about it we have done nothing nothing to fix it yet.
>
> Like the difference between playing with a stuffed dog and a live one,
synths are a lot more fun if they can edited in realtime with knobs or
faders. That is the only reason I use my JX8P+PG800 a lot more than I use my
CZ-1. The CZ-1, just some software running on a slow 8 bit CPU, sounds more
interesting to me than the JX-8P with its 8 expensive and hard to replace
filter chips, but there's something it can't do: with other synts I use a
cotton swab to keep one key pressed and have incredible fun playing that
single note all night, moving from places like a rave party in an alien
space ship, the insides of the Krakatoa, a bee hive, etc.
>
> I have a BCF2000 thing (8 good quality motorized faders and 8 encoder
knobs MIDI controller), a bargain for 100USD. Programming it is easy but the
problem with using anything like it with the CZs is that CZs don't accept
individual CC messages for changing most synth parameters. This could be
changed via a software upgrade on a spare 4USD Eprom. If the Eprom is
socketed, replacing it with a new one is something anyone could do in a
couple of minutes, if not, good soldering skills are required but any
experienced repairman could unsolder the chip and solder a socket in its
position for painless upgrades.
>
> Assembly language / embedded programming is (still) my job and giving a
fix to the CZ software would be only fun for me. I would do it immediately
but I don't have the patience to find the documentation for the CPU in the
CZ and the corresponding assembler / disassembler software. I briefly
searched for them online but I couldn't find them.
>
> **************************************************
> Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a
ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a
software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth
parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom
firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want
to get more into it.

> **************************************************
>
> Joaquim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Joaquim,

The main and sub CPU's in the CZ-1 are uPD7810. The datasheet is available from www.datasheet4u.com and the service manual is in the CZ-1 yahoo group. I can send any of this info you need too. I haven't dumped the rom code on the CZ-1 eproms yet because they are soldered in. 

These processors were used in Arcade games along with some synths such as the Juno-106. There seems to be a mention of a MAME open source compiler package for this and something about Z180? I'm not a progammer so this all out of my league. 

CC control may be a tall order for the CPU to have time for. Myself I would like to see the envelopes loop. 128 steps for each stage of the envelope shown in the LCD menu (same as sysex.) Mod Wheel and Aftertouch control of the filter, and envelopes. Possible velocity rate control of the envelopes to go along with the levels. The full compliment of waves available from sysex shown on the display. Etc. Pretty much the same wishlist carries over to the VZ synths too.

Are you the same programmer who worked on JSynthLib?  Fran  

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "-" <jdcx64@...> wrote:

>
> **************************************************
> Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want to get more into it.
> **************************************************
> 
> The long version:
> 
> This is a discussion that has been repeated several times but although we have talked about it we have done nothing nothing to fix it yet.
> 
> Like the difference between playing with a stuffed dog and a live one, synths are a lot more fun if they can edited in realtime with knobs or faders. That is the only reason I use my JX8P+PG800 a lot more than I use my CZ-1. The CZ-1, just some software running on a slow 8 bit CPU, sounds more interesting to me than the JX-8P with its 8 expensive and hard to replace filter chips, but there's something it can't do: with other synts I use a cotton swab to keep one key pressed and have incredible fun playing that single note all night, moving from places like a rave party in an alien space ship, the insides of the Krakatoa, a bee hive, etc.
> 
> I have a BCF2000 thing (8 good quality motorized faders and 8 encoder knobs MIDI controller), a bargain for 100USD. Programming it is easy but the problem with using anything like it with the CZs is that CZs don't accept individual CC messages for changing most synth parameters. This could be changed via a software upgrade on a spare 4USD Eprom. If the Eprom is socketed, replacing it with a new one is something anyone could do in a couple of minutes, if not, good soldering skills are required but any experienced repairman could unsolder the chip and solder a socket in its position for painless upgrades.
> 
> Assembly language / embedded programming is (still) my job and giving a fix to the CZ software would be only fun for me. I would do it immediately but I don't have the patience to find the documentation for the CPU in the CZ and the corresponding assembler / disassembler software. I briefly searched for them online but I couldn't find them.
> 
> **************************************************
> Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want to get more into it.
> **************************************************
> 
> Joaquim
>

I don't have soldering/desoldering skills and have no idea how to dump a rom even if I could get someone else to get it out. I do have a working CZ-1 if I can get someone else to help with the other stuff (desoldering, installing a socket, programming eprom, etc.). It would be great if the CZ-1 OS can be upgraded!!!

BTW, would you need to replace the main rom (32K), the sub rom (16K) or both?

I have a little knowledge of assembly language programming and knowledge of CZ sysex, if any of that would help.

--Steve

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "narfman96" <narfman96@...> wrote:

>
> Joaquim,
> 
> The main and sub CPU's in the CZ-1 are uPD7810. The datasheet is available from www.datasheet4u.com and the service manual is in the CZ-1 yahoo group. I can send any of this info you need too. I haven't dumped the rom code on the CZ-1 eproms yet because they are soldered in. 
> 
> These processors were used in Arcade games along with some synths such as the Juno-106. There seems to be a mention of a MAME open source compiler package for this and something about Z180? I'm not a progammer so this all out of my league. 
> 
> CC control may be a tall order for the CPU to have time for. Myself I would like to see the envelopes loop. 128 steps for each stage of the envelope shown in the LCD menu (same as sysex.) Mod Wheel and Aftertouch control of the filter, and envelopes. Possible velocity rate control of the envelopes to go along with the levels. The full compliment of waves available from sysex shown on the display. Etc. Pretty much the same wishlist carries over to the VZ synths too.
> 
> Are you the same programmer who worked on JSynthLib?  Fran  
> 
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "-" <jdcx64@> wrote:
> >
> > **************************************************
> > Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want to get more into it.
> > **************************************************
> > 
> > The long version:
> > 
> > This is a discussion that has been repeated several times but although we have talked about it we have done nothing nothing to fix it yet.
> > 
> > Like the difference between playing with a stuffed dog and a live one, synths are a lot more fun if they can edited in realtime with knobs or faders. That is the only reason I use my JX8P+PG800 a lot more than I use my CZ-1. The CZ-1, just some software running on a slow 8 bit CPU, sounds more interesting to me than the JX-8P with its 8 expensive and hard to replace filter chips, but there's something it can't do: with other synts I use a cotton swab to keep one key pressed and have incredible fun playing that single note all night, moving from places like a rave party in an alien space ship, the insides of the Krakatoa, a bee hive, etc.
> > 
> > I have a BCF2000 thing (8 good quality motorized faders and 8 encoder knobs MIDI controller), a bargain for 100USD. Programming it is easy but the problem with using anything like it with the CZs is that CZs don't accept individual CC messages for changing most synth parameters. This could be changed via a software upgrade on a spare 4USD Eprom. If the Eprom is socketed, replacing it with a new one is something anyone could do in a couple of minutes, if not, good soldering skills are required but any experienced repairman could unsolder the chip and solder a socket in its position for painless upgrades.
> > 
> > Assembly language / embedded programming is (still) my job and giving a fix to the CZ software would be only fun for me. I would do it immediately but I don't have the patience to find the documentation for the CPU in the CZ and the corresponding assembler / disassembler software. I briefly searched for them online but I couldn't find them.
> > 
> > **************************************************
> > Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want to get more into it.
> > **************************************************
> > 
> > Joaquim
> >
>

PS: Yup, the datasheet is there and MAME does have files to disassemble uPD7810 based code. (I have no experience with the disassembler, though.)

However, I am still wondering if the CZ architechture allows for realtime parameter control. I was under the impression that changing values necessitated retriggering the note.  While I can look at block diagrams and understand what the designers have done, I lack the ability to analyze the design enough to know if the note must necessarily be retriggered, of if its just that way because that's how the OS was written (implying that it can be changed).

Also, I am wondering if a technique from the VZ envelope would be helpful--the end level does not have to be zero. Changing that would mean no need for Q-tips and possibly no need for a 128 stage envelope if the sound can be altered on the fly.

I really hope all this can be done. A few weeks ago I played some CZ sounds and CZ music and a number of people were amazed at what the CZ could do. (And these were non-velocity CZ patches from the CZ-5000!)

Steve



--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "narfman96" <narfman96@...> wrote:

>
> Joaquim,
> 
> The main and sub CPU's in the CZ-1 are uPD7810. The datasheet is available from www.datasheet4u.com and the service manual is in the CZ-1 yahoo group. I can send any of this info you need too. I haven't dumped the rom code on the CZ-1 eproms yet because they are soldered in. 
> 
> These processors were used in Arcade games along with some synths such as the Juno-106. There seems to be a mention of a MAME open source compiler package for this and something about Z180? I'm not a progammer so this all out of my league. 
> 
> CC control may be a tall order for the CPU to have time for. Myself I would like to see the envelopes loop. 128 steps for each stage of the envelope shown in the LCD menu (same as sysex.) Mod Wheel and Aftertouch control of the filter, and envelopes. Possible velocity rate control of the envelopes to go along with the levels. The full compliment of waves available from sysex shown on the display. Etc. Pretty much the same wishlist carries over to the VZ synths too.
> 
> Are you the same programmer who worked on JSynthLib?  Fran  
> 
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "-" <jdcx64@> wrote:
> >
> > **************************************************
> > Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want to get more into it.
> > **************************************************
> > 
> > The long version:
> > 
> > This is a discussion that has been repeated several times but although we have talked about it we have done nothing nothing to fix it yet.
> > 
> > Like the difference between playing with a stuffed dog and a live one, synths are a lot more fun if they can edited in realtime with knobs or faders. That is the only reason I use my JX8P+PG800 a lot more than I use my CZ-1. The CZ-1, just some software running on a slow 8 bit CPU, sounds more interesting to me than the JX-8P with its 8 expensive and hard to replace filter chips, but there's something it can't do: with other synts I use a cotton swab to keep one key pressed and have incredible fun playing that single note all night, moving from places like a rave party in an alien space ship, the insides of the Krakatoa, a bee hive, etc.
> > 
> > I have a BCF2000 thing (8 good quality motorized faders and 8 encoder knobs MIDI controller), a bargain for 100USD. Programming it is easy but the problem with using anything like it with the CZs is that CZs don't accept individual CC messages for changing most synth parameters. This could be changed via a software upgrade on a spare 4USD Eprom. If the Eprom is socketed, replacing it with a new one is something anyone could do in a couple of minutes, if not, good soldering skills are required but any experienced repairman could unsolder the chip and solder a socket in its position for painless upgrades.
> > 
> > Assembly language / embedded programming is (still) my job and giving a fix to the CZ software would be only fun for me. I would do it immediately but I don't have the patience to find the documentation for the CPU in the CZ and the corresponding assembler / disassembler software. I briefly searched for them online but I couldn't find them.
> > 
> > **************************************************
> > Please give me some documentation help (CPU docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code lines for the people who want to get more into it.
> > **************************************************
> > 
> > Joaquim
> >
>

the external device using the controls had better be
programmed to handle the cz's sofisticated sysex !!!

its just not a single layer of commands embedded in the sysex its a double
layer.

do these controllers have the ability to "encode" and "decode" on a
bite-wise level?

i thgink my cz is great alone and any changes wouldn't make it a cz
anymore..

velocity sensitive is not present , but it does repond to control change 7
main volume

charles


----- Original Message -----
From: "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...>
To: <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: [CZsynth] Re: Realtime synth parameters control with faders like
BCF2000 / BCR2000


> PS: Yup, the datasheet is there and MAME does have files to disassemble
uPD7810 based code. (I have no experience with the disassembler, though.)
>
> However, I am still wondering if the CZ architechture allows for realtime
parameter control. I was under the impression that changing values
necessitated retriggering the note.  While I can look at block diagrams and
understand what the designers have done, I lack the ability to analyze the
design enough to know if the note must necessarily be retriggered, of if its
just that way because that's how the OS was written (implying that it can be
changed).
>
> Also, I am wondering if a technique from the VZ envelope would be
helpful--the end level does not have to be zero. Changing that would mean no
need for Q-tips and possibly no need for a 128 stage envelope if the sound
can be altered on the fly.
>
> I really hope all this can be done. A few weeks ago I played some CZ
sounds and CZ music and a number of people were amazed at what the CZ could
do. (And these were non-velocity CZ patches from the CZ-5000!)
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "narfman96" <narfman96@...> wrote:
> >
> > Joaquim,
> >
> > The main and sub CPU's in the CZ-1 are uPD7810. The datasheet is
available from www.datasheet4u.com and the service manual is in the CZ-1
yahoo group. I can send any of this info you need too. I haven't dumped the
rom code on the CZ-1 eproms yet because they are soldered in.
> >
> > These processors were used in Arcade games along with some synths such
as the Juno-106. There seems to be a mention of a MAME open source compiler
package for this and something about Z180? I'm not a progammer so this all
out of my league.
> >
> > CC control may be a tall order for the CPU to have time for. Myself I
would like to see the envelopes loop. 128 steps for each stage of the
envelope shown in the LCD menu (same as sysex.) Mod Wheel and Aftertouch
control of the filter, and envelopes. Possible velocity rate control of the
envelopes to go along with the levels. The full compliment of waves
available from sysex shown on the display. Etc. Pretty much the same
wishlist carries over to the VZ synths too.
> >
> > Are you the same programmer who worked on JSynthLib?  Fran
> >
> > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "-" <jdcx64@> wrote:
> > >
> > > **************************************************
> > > Please give me some documentation help (CPU
docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can
get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive
realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few
byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code
lines for the people who want to get more into it.
> > > **************************************************
> > >
> > > The long version:
> > >
> > > This is a discussion that has been repeated several times but although
we have talked about it we have done nothing nothing to fix it yet.
> > >
> > > Like the difference between playing with a stuffed dog and a live one,
synths are a lot more fun if they can edited in realtime with knobs or
faders. That is the only reason I use my JX8P+PG800 a lot more than I use my
CZ-1. The CZ-1, just some software running on a slow 8 bit CPU, sounds more
interesting to me than the JX-8P with its 8 expensive and hard to replace
filter chips, but there's something it can't do: with other synts I use a
cotton swab to keep one key pressed and have incredible fun playing that
single note all night, moving from places like a rave party in an alien
space ship, the insides of the Krakatoa, a bee hive, etc.
> > >
> > > I have a BCF2000 thing (8 good quality motorized faders and 8 encoder
knobs MIDI controller), a bargain for 100USD. Programming it is easy but the
problem with using anything like it with the CZs is that CZs don't accept
individual CC messages for changing most synth parameters. This could be
changed via a software upgrade on a spare 4USD Eprom. If the Eprom is
socketed, replacing it with a new one is something anyone could do in a
couple of minutes, if not, good soldering skills are required but any
experienced repairman could unsolder the chip and solder a socket in its
position for painless upgrades.
> > >
> > > Assembly language / embedded programming is (still) my job and giving
a fix to the CZ software would be only fun for me. I would do it immediately
but I don't have the patience to find the documentation for the CPU in the
CZ and the corresponding assembler / disassembler software. I briefly
searched for them online but I couldn't find them.
> > >
> > > **************************************************
> > > Please give me some documentation help (CPU
docs/assembler/disassembler, a ROM dump of the CZ-1 would be great but I can
get it myself) and I'll make a software patch for the CZ-1 to receive
realtime CC codes for every synth parameter and publicly release it as a few
byte changes to its Eprom firmware, or as a few documented assembly code
lines for the people who want to get more into it.

> > > **************************************************
> > >
> > > Joaquim
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Real time control of any CZ would be great!

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "charlie from PARRY" <charles.copp@...> wrote:

> the external device using the controls had better be
> programmed to handle the cz's sofisticated sysex !!!
Hmmmmm.

> its just not a single layer of commands embedded in the sysex its a double layer.
Hmmmmmm.

> do these controllers have the ability to "encode" and "decode" on a
> bite-wise level?
If you write a program that generates CC data and inserts it into the midi stream, you most certainly can do this on a bit-wise basis. Let's say for example you wanted to thin the CC data you are placing on the midi stream, your algorithm could generate values for the CC command skipping bits 0 and 1 and setting them to zero. 

On the receving end. I suppose if someone is going to modify the CZ OS, they could have the CZ ignore bits 0 and 1 from incoming CC data (and maybe do the same on pitchbend). 

> i think my cz is great alone and any changes wouldn't make it a cz
> anymore..
I don't think anyone will be forcing you to modify your CZ OS if you don't want. As the saying goes, "if it works, don't fix it."

> velocity sensitive is not present , but it does repond to control change 7 main volume
The CZ-1 has velocity sensitivity. 

> charles

Yeah, a great machine enhanced for the new millennium.


--- Lun 16/11/09, HarryP <trueshunka@...> ha scritto:

Da: HarryP <trueshunka@...m>
Oggetto: [CZsynth] Re: Realtime synth parameters control with faders like BCF2000 / BCR2000
A: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
Data: Lunedì 16 novembre 2009, 00:20







 



  


    
      
      
      Real time control of any CZ would be great!





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Howdy,
 I think the closest we can get to real time parameter control would be to figure out the pulse/encode scheme fore the up down buttons, then build a compatible rotary encoder. That would speed things up greatly and provide a more convenient user inter face. Anything past that is going to get pretty deep. The only mod I know of , and have used, is disabling the APO switch on the 101 and using it to access the 3rd and 4th bank on the memory cartridge. It is nice to have 32 sounds available from your cartridge than just the stock 16.
Rig