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HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-19 by cdnephew

i recently purchased a cz5000 and i love it!

but now moving on to implementing the midi side of things i am running in to a few hurdles
i want to be able to send Sysex to the keyboard but i'am confused on procedure i have been sending sysex via "Sysex lib" the midi cable is sending and receiving and the keyboard is sending but do you have to put the CZ in to any mode's to listen for SYSex

also MIDIQUest and the CZ5000 not even a sausage 

thanks

Re: [CZsynth] HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-19 by Daniel Forró

MIDI channel in SysEx file and on the instruments has to be the same.

CZ synths use handshaking communication protocol normally, which means  
data are sent in blocks (one block for one patch), after receiving  
each patch data CZ confirms receiving.

But there's a way how to do it without handshaking. See the attachment.

Daniel Forro


  ----------



On May 19, 2012, at 12:28 PM, cdnephew wrote:

> i recently purchased a cz5000 and i love it!
>
> but now moving on to implementing the midi side of things i am  
> running in to a few hurdles
> i want to be able to send Sysex to the keyboard but i'am confused on  
> procedure i have been sending sysex via "Sysex lib" the midi cable  
> is sending and receiving and the keyboard is sending but do you have  
> to put the CZ in to any mode's to listen for SYSex
>
> also MIDIQUest and the CZ5000 not even a sausage
>
> thanks



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-19 by jianlook37

SEX ON A CZ5000??? WOW!

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "cdnephew" <castrosatt@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> i recently purchased a cz5000 and i love it!
> 
> but now moving on to implementing the midi side of things i am running in to a few hurdles
> i want to be able to send Sysex to the keyboard but i'am confused on procedure i have been sending sysex via "Sysex lib" the midi cable is sending and receiving and the keyboard is sending but do you have to put the CZ in to any mode's to listen for SYSex
> 
> also MIDIQUest and the CZ5000 not even a sausage 
> 
> thanks
>

Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-19 by cdnephew

So you don't set The CZ5000 to recive on the unit it self 

In which case what's the best way to do it if this is the case 
--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> MIDI channel in SysEx file and on the instruments has to be the same.
> 
> CZ synths use handshaking communication protocol normally, which means  
> data are sent in blocks (one block for one patch), after receiving  
> each patch data CZ confirms receiving.
> 
> But there's a way how to do it without handshaking. See the attachment.
> 
> Daniel Forro
> 
> 
>   ----------
> 
> 
> 
> On May 19, 2012, at 12:28 PM, cdnephew wrote:
> 
> > i recently purchased a cz5000 and i love it!
> >
> > but now moving on to implementing the midi side of things i am  
> > running in to a few hurdles
> > i want to be able to send Sysex to the keyboard but i'am confused on  
> > procedure i have been sending sysex via "Sysex lib" the midi cable  
> > is sending and receiving and the keyboard is sending but do you have  
> > to put the CZ in to any mode's to listen for SYSex
> >
> > also MIDIQUest and the CZ5000 not even a sausage
> >
> > thanks
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [CZsynth] Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-20 by Daniel Forró

I don't have CZ5000...

It looks from that paper that some editing of SysEx file is necessary.  
Some kind of hex editor? I did such editing in sequencers - Notator,  
Cakewalk, Opcode Studio Vision Pro...

Daniel Forro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 19, 2012, at 11:14 PM, cdnephew wrote:

> So you don't set The CZ5000 to recive on the unit it self
>
> In which case what's the best way to do it if this is the case
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@...> wrote:
>>
>> MIDI channel in SysEx file and on the instruments has to be the same.
>>
>> CZ synths use handshaking communication protocol normally, which  
>> means
>> data are sent in blocks (one block for one patch), after receiving
>> each patch data CZ confirms receiving.
>>
>> But there's a way how to do it without handshaking. See the  
>> attachment.
>>
>> Daniel Forro
>>

Re: [CZsynth] Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-20 by charlie 'chop' copp

feed it all the commands at once and never mind if it  handshakes,
then if your array has a null byte at 256
or 256*16 then it didn't transmit 

i seem to remeber sysex cz sending F7
??

charles

Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-20 by steve_the_composer

CZ sysex communication does not follow the same handshaking protocol everyone else uses, but its close. CZs do not send the 0x0F7 byte after every sysex message; it will do ||: data - acknowledgement :|| and will only do the 0xF7 at the end. This can cause problems for software that doesn't know about this little CZ quirk.

As for how the CZ receives bulk data dump requests, sends data, and receives data, there is no better source than the CZ MIDI Guide from 1985. (I think its in the files section either here or in the spill over group.)

I haven't done sequence transfers with the CZ-5000 in decades, but it is pretty straight forward if you follow the CZ handshaking protocol. The CZ-5000 is always listening for incoming sysex commands but only responds to one's intended for the CZ line of synths.

Hope this helps.

 




--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> MIDI channel in SysEx file and on the instruments has to be the same.
> 
> CZ synths use handshaking communication protocol normally, which means  
> data are sent in blocks (one block for one patch), after receiving  
> each patch data CZ confirms receiving.
> 
> But there's a way how to do it without handshaking. See the attachment.
> 
> Daniel Forro
> 
> 
>   ----------
> 
> 
> 
> On May 19, 2012, at 12:28 PM, cdnephew wrote:
> 
> > i recently purchased a cz5000 and i love it!
> >
> > but now moving on to implementing the midi side of things i am  
> > running in to a few hurdles
> > i want to be able to send Sysex to the keyboard but i'am confused on  
> > procedure i have been sending sysex via "Sysex lib" the midi cable  
> > is sending and receiving and the keyboard is sending but do you have  
> > to put the CZ in to any mode's to listen for SYSex
> >
> > also MIDIQUest and the CZ5000 not even a sausage
> >
> > thanks
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-20 by steve_the_composer

I am curious to know why you think that editing a sysex file is necessary to transfer sysex data.  Are you talking about stacking up acks in the buffer so the CZ won't hang? 



--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I don't have CZ5000...
> 
> It looks from that paper that some editing of SysEx file is necessary.  
> Some kind of hex editor? I did such editing in sequencers - Notator,  
> Cakewalk, Opcode Studio Vision Pro...
> 
> Daniel Forro
> 
> 
> On May 19, 2012, at 11:14 PM, cdnephew wrote:
> 
> > So you don't set The CZ5000 to recive on the unit it self
> >
> > In which case what's the best way to do it if this is the case
> > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >>
> >> MIDI channel in SysEx file and on the instruments has to be the same.
> >>
> >> CZ synths use handshaking communication protocol normally, which  
> >> means
> >> data are sent in blocks (one block for one patch), after receiving
> >> each patch data CZ confirms receiving.
> >>
> >> But there's a way how to do it without handshaking. See the  
> >> attachment.
> >>
> >> Daniel Forro
> >>
>

Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-20 by steve_the_composer

Footenotes:

1. The CZ Guidebook is indeed here in the files section as a pdf. Look under CZ Docs. Its the pdf with sysex in the title.

2. A few months back as part of a dicussion on CZ sysex and midi-ox transfers, I did some testing. Evidently at one point I spelled out the steps I used because someone was claiming that two instances of midi-ox were needed. You can access the thread here:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/4854

3. As I recall, I did this test with patch data, not sequences. I seem to recall with cakewalk software I piled up some CZ ack commands in the transmitting sequence to get the CZ not to hang. So, if you ae trying to transfer sequences and using midi-ox, you might want to try this approach. (Again, see the CZ MIDI Guidebook.)

I'd give it a test run, but I am not set up to do anything with the CZ-5000 at the moment. If you get stuck, I can give it a try.

Hope this helps.

Steve 





--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CZ sysex communication does not follow the same handshaking protocol everyone else uses, but its close. CZs do not send the 0x0F7 byte after every sysex message; it will do ||: data - acknowledgement :|| and will only do the 0xF7 at the end. This can cause problems for software that doesn't know about this little CZ quirk.
> 
> As for how the CZ receives bulk data dump requests, sends data, and receives data, there is no better source than the CZ MIDI Guide from 1985. (I think its in the files section either here or in the spill over group.)
> 
> I haven't done sequence transfers with the CZ-5000 in decades, but it is pretty straight forward if you follow the CZ handshaking protocol. The CZ-5000 is always listening for incoming sysex commands but only responds to one's intended for the CZ line of synths.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >
> > MIDI channel in SysEx file and on the instruments has to be the same.
> > 
> > CZ synths use handshaking communication protocol normally, which means  
> > data are sent in blocks (one block for one patch), after receiving  
> > each patch data CZ confirms receiving.
> > 
> > But there's a way how to do it without handshaking. See the attachment.
> > 
> > Daniel Forro
> > 
> > 
> >   ----------
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On May 19, 2012, at 12:28 PM, cdnephew wrote:
> > 
> > > i recently purchased a cz5000 and i love it!
> > >
> > > but now moving on to implementing the midi side of things i am  
> > > running in to a few hurdles
> > > i want to be able to send Sysex to the keyboard but i'am confused on  
> > > procedure i have been sending sysex via "Sysex lib" the midi cable  
> > > is sending and receiving and the keyboard is sending but do you have  
> > > to put the CZ in to any mode's to listen for SYSex
> > >
> > > also MIDIQUest and the CZ5000 not even a sausage
> > >
> > > thanks
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Re: [CZsynth] Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-20 by Daniel Forró

Something in this sense was written in that document I've sent, about  
simplifying and rearranging data. Have you read it?

But maybe SysEx datafiles for CZ found on internet were prepared this  
way and don't need it. I didn't analyzed them.

Daniel Forro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 20, 2012, at 11:07 PM, steve_the_composer wrote:

> I am curious to know why you think that editing a sysex file is  
> necessary to transfer sysex data.  Are you talking about stacking up  
> acks in the buffer so the CZ won't hang?
>
>
>
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@...> wrote:
>>
>> I don't have CZ5000...
>>
>> It looks from that paper that some editing of SysEx file is  
>> necessary.
>> Some kind of hex editor? I did such editing in sequencers - Notator,
>> Cakewalk, Opcode Studio Vision Pro...
>>
>> Daniel Forro
>>
>>
>> On May 19, 2012, at 11:14 PM, cdnephew wrote:
>>
>>> So you don't set The CZ5000 to recive on the unit it self
>>>
>>> In which case what's the best way to do it if this is the case
>>> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> MIDI channel in SysEx file and on the instruments has to be the  
>>>> same.
>>>>
>>>> CZ synths use handshaking communication protocol normally, which
>>>> means
>>>> data are sent in blocks (one block for one patch), after receiving
>>>> each patch data CZ confirms receiving.
>>>>
>>>> But there's a way how to do it without handshaking. See the
>>>> attachment.
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Forro
>>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [CZsynth] Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-20 by Lee Borrell

I think it was myself that mentioned using two instances of MIDIox - I think I said this as I had used it successfully to prompt the CZ to send one patch using the "Send only" instance and set the second instance to "receive only" to pick up the patch data

There are links to "defeating CZ handshaking" at my site:

http://templarseries.atspace.com/cz.html

LEE

--- On Sun, 20/5/12, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...>
Subject: [CZsynth] Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000
To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 20 May, 2012, 15:19
















 



  


    
      
      
      Footenotes:



1. The CZ Guidebook is indeed here in the files section as a pdf. Look under CZ Docs. Its the pdf with sysex in the title.



2. A few months back as part of a dicussion on CZ sysex and midi-ox transfers, I did some testing. Evidently at one point I spelled out the steps I used because someone was claiming that two instances of midi-ox were needed. You can access the thread here:



http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/4854



3. As I recall, I did this test with patch data, not sequences. I seem to recall with cakewalk software I piled up some CZ ack commands in the transmitting sequence to get the CZ not to hang. So, if you ae trying to transfer sequences and using midi-ox, you might want to try this approach. (Again, see the CZ MIDI Guidebook.)



I'd give it a test run, but I am not set up to do anything with the CZ-5000 at the moment. If you get stuck, I can give it a try.



Hope this helps.



Steve 



--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:

>

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> CZ sysex communication does not follow the same handshaking protocol everyone else uses, but its close. CZs do not send the 0x0F7 byte after every sysex message; it will do ||: data - acknowledgement :|| and will only do the 0xF7 at the end. This can cause problems for software that doesn't know about this little CZ quirk.

> 

> As for how the CZ receives bulk data dump requests, sends data, and receives data, there is no better source than the CZ MIDI Guide from 1985. (I think its in the files section either here or in the spill over group.)

> 

> I haven't done sequence transfers with the CZ-5000 in decades, but it is pretty straight forward if you follow the CZ handshaking protocol. The CZ-5000 is always listening for incoming sysex commands but only responds to one's intended for the CZ line of synths.

> 

> Hope this helps.

> 

>  

> 

> 

> 

> 

> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:

> >

> > MIDI channel in SysEx file and on the instruments has to be the same.

> > 

> > CZ synths use handshaking communication protocol normally, which means  

> > data are sent in blocks (one block for one patch), after receiving  

> > each patch data CZ confirms receiving.

> > 

> > But there's a way how to do it without handshaking. See the attachment.

> > 

> > Daniel Forro

> > 

> > 

> >   ----------

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > On May 19, 2012, at 12:28 PM, cdnephew wrote:

> > 

> > > i recently purchased a cz5000 and i love it!

> > >

> > > but now moving on to implementing the midi side of things i am  

> > > running in to a few hurdles

> > > i want to be able to send Sysex to the keyboard but i'am confused on  

> > > procedure i have been sending sysex via "Sysex lib" the midi cable  

> > > is sending and receiving and the keyboard is sending but do you have  

> > > to put the CZ in to any mode's to listen for SYSex

> > >

> > > also MIDIQUest and the CZ5000 not even a sausage

> > >

> > > thanks

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>





    
     

    
    






  










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-24 by steve_the_composer

No. I did not read the document. I assume you are talking about the attachment you mentioned. I did not see any attachment. Can you provide a message link to the attachment?  If so, I will be happy to take a look.

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/5303

Hmmmm. I will take another look for the attachment.




--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Something in this sense was written in that document I've sent, about  
> simplifying and rearranging data. Have you read it?
> 
> But maybe SysEx datafiles for CZ found on internet were prepared this  
> way and don't need it. I didn't analyzed them.
> 
> Daniel Forro
> 
> 
> On May 20, 2012, at 11:07 PM, steve_the_composer wrote:
> 
> > I am curious to know why you think that editing a sysex file is  
> > necessary to transfer sysex data.  Are you talking about stacking up  
> > acks in the buffer so the CZ won't hang?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't have CZ5000...
> >>
> >> It looks from that paper that some editing of SysEx file is  
> >> necessary.
> >> Some kind of hex editor? I did such editing in sequencers - Notator,
> >> Cakewalk, Opcode Studio Vision Pro...
> >>
> >> Daniel Forro

Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-24 by steve_the_composer

I looked in the files section and I looked at the source code for your post.  I cannot find any attachment. Sorry I couldn't be on any help on this issue.
Steve 

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> No. I did not read the document. I assume you are talking about the attachment you mentioned. I did not see any attachment. Can you provide a message link to the attachment?  If so, I will be happy to take a look.
> 
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/5303
> 
> Hmmmm. I will take another look for the attachment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >
> > Something in this sense was written in that document I've sent, about  
> > simplifying and rearranging data. Have you read it?
> > 
> > But maybe SysEx datafiles for CZ found on internet were prepared this  
> > way and don't need it. I didn't analyzed them.
> > 
> > Daniel Forro
> > 
> > 
> > On May 20, 2012, at 11:07 PM, steve_the_composer wrote:
> > 
> > > I am curious to know why you think that editing a sysex file is  
> > > necessary to transfer sysex data.  Are you talking about stacking up  
> > > acks in the buffer so the CZ won't hang?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I don't have CZ5000...
> > >>
> > >> It looks from that paper that some editing of SysEx file is  
> > >> necessary.
> > >> Some kind of hex editor? I did such editing in sequencers - Notator,
> > >> Cakewalk, Opcode Studio Vision Pro...
> > >>
> > >> Daniel Forro
>

Re: [CZsynth] Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-25 by Daniel Forró

Some other groups have a space for saving attachments, this not. I can  
send you PM if only I have your mail address...

Daniel Forro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 25, 2012, at 6:00 AM, steve_the_composer wrote:

> I looked in the files section and I looked at the source code for  
> your post.  I cannot find any attachment. Sorry I couldn't be on any  
> help on this issue.
> Steve
>
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...>  
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> No. I did not read the document. I assume you are talking about the  
>> attachment you mentioned. I did not see any attachment. Can you  
>> provide a message link to the attachment?  If so, I will be happy  
>> to take a look.
>>
>> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/5303
>>
>> Hmmmm. I will take another look for the attachment.

Re: HI there help with SYSex on CZ5000

2012-05-25 by pyrosonic2300

You can't add attachments on Yahoo groups,you have to upload it in the files section.




--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> No. I did not read the document. I assume you are talking about the attachment you mentioned. I did not see any attachment. Can you provide a message link to the attachment?  If so, I will be happy to take a look.
> 
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/message/5303
> 
> Hmmmm. I will take another look for the attachment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> >
> > Something in this sense was written in that document I've sent, about  
> > simplifying and rearranging data. Have you read it?
> > 
> > But maybe SysEx datafiles for CZ found on internet were prepared this  
> > way and don't need it. I didn't analyzed them.
> > 
> > Daniel Forro
> > 
> > 
> > On May 20, 2012, at 11:07 PM, steve_the_composer wrote:
> > 
> > > I am curious to know why you think that editing a sysex file is  
> > > necessary to transfer sysex data.  Are you talking about stacking up  
> > > acks in the buffer so the CZ won't hang?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I don't have CZ5000...
> > >>
> > >> It looks from that paper that some editing of SysEx file is  
> > >> necessary.
> > >> Some kind of hex editor? I did such editing in sequencers - Notator,
> > >> Cakewalk, Opcode Studio Vision Pro...
> > >>
> > >> Daniel Forro
>

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