Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

Here is an interesting looking new VSTi from reFX. It is not directly 
stated but judging by the name, the functions offered and the sounds 
this thing makes I am confident that it is related in some way (if 
only inspired by them) to CZ synths. I am stoked IMHO reFX are second 
only to Native Instruments when It comes to developing quality 
softsynths and this is one of the best. reFX also do the quadraSID an 
emulation of the C-64 sound chip I would think that if you are into 
the sound of a Casio CZ then the quadraSid should also light up your 
ears.

http://www.refx.net/products/PlastiCZ!.htm 

dan

Hi Dan,

I tried the demo it but it seems to be a quite simple synth, even 
compared to our beloved 80s CZ. It has only two ADSR-Envelopes per 
Voice and most of the interesting sounds seem to come to life rather 
by the built in FX like Talk Box (some kind of Vocal filter), bit 
cruser, phaser, flanger, distortion, delay ... than by real 
synthesis.  So they placed a whole lot of graphics into the GUI to 
make it look impressing... 
Other than that the Oszillators creates lots of aliasing (even much 
much more than a real CZ) and when using the DCW it creates some kind 
PWM like phasing, the ringmod works quite different than on a real CZ 
and thus can't be controlled by an envelope and there are no resonant 
waveforms avaiable. 

I think compared to Native Instruments reFX is a rather small player 
in the Softsynth market...

So keep your CZs since this plug-in isn't even remotely a 
replacement...


...Summa


On 19 Sep 2002 at 0:30, dan wrote:

> Here is an interesting looking new VSTi from reFX. It is not directly 
> stated but judging by the name, the functions offered and the sounds 
> this thing makes I am confident that it is related in some way (if 
> only inspired by them) to CZ synths. I am stoked IMHO reFX are second 
> only to Native Instruments when It comes to developing quality 
> softsynths and this is one of the best. reFX also do the quadraSID an 
> emulation of the C-64 sound chip I would think that if you are into 
> the sound of a Casio CZ then the quadraSid should also light up your 
> ears.
> 
> http://www.refx.net/products/PlastiCZ!.htm 
> 
> dan
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

A Touch of Future - Project: http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
Casio CZ Synth Station: http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ 

CZ/VZ list   : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth
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--- In CZsynth@y..., "Summa" <flotorian@f...> wrote:

> So keep your CZs since this plug-in isn't even remotely a 
> replacement...

Agree.. That ReFx thing makes couple obvious mistakes (missing four
envelopes envelopes of six and even those present are plain ADSR) that
makes less capable tham Cz101. PlastiCZ makes some neat Fx sounds but
not having pitch envelopes limits that too. 

I have been waiting to something that had even those essentials of
CZ101. I use only virtual synths these days (less wiring and hassle
with pacthes not to mention $$ savings) and I have been trying to find
decent CZ like tool. 
 
Joanna

Has anyone here tried the pd303 from www.synthedit.com?

The demos sound less like a CZ and more like the first version of VAZ.
The Graphics look like candy (Yum !)- but when you look at the 
controls - it looks a bit simple.

I've been hoping someone would make a CZ VSTi - but this one is not it.
We may need Native Instruments or Loftsoft (FMHeaven creator) to do this 
right.

Thanks for posting the info though- if anyone sees another CZ 
VSTi..Please post the link here (we're waiting with cash in hand ).

Till then- I'm still on a CZ-101 (and I admit a CZ-1 just re-entered my 
studio after I decided I couldn't live without it).

____________________________________
Todd S.
Sierra Madre Cinema Council
http://users.ev1.net/~xpander/SMCChome.html
____________________________________


On Wednesday, September 18, 2002, at 07:30 PM, dan wrote:

> Here is an interesting looking new VSTi from reFX. It is not directly
> stated but judging by the name, the functions offered and the sounds
> this thing makes I am confident that it is related in some way (if
> only inspired by them) to CZ synths. I am stoked IMHO reFX are second
> only to Native Instruments when It comes to developing quality
> softsynths and this is one of the best. reFX also do the quadraSID an
> emulation of the C-64 sound chip I would think that if you are into
> the sound of a Casio CZ then the quadraSid should also light up your
> ears.
>
> http://www.refx.net/products/PlastiCZ!.htm
>
> dan
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm kinda curious to know how people live the inherent
latency of softsynths... I made a few tried but nothing
really seems tight, mainly for the soundcad latency reason.


Maxim

How many ppl on this list are also using VZ's?

Maxim

PS. Or should I say VZ'z  ?

--- In CZsynth@y..., Tomás <tomulcahy@y...> wrote:
> Has anyone here tried the pd303 from www.synthedit.com?

It's nice free instrument on what it can do.. PD synthesis and few
knobs.. Synthedit (free, but amazingly good VST synth making tool,
Modular, has Gui etc.. ) has so far the best CZ-like sounding
oscillator I have heard, unfortunately no-one have got far enough and
make 101-like VST with it.. 

Joanna

Could you please send any pointers to the Synthedit?


Maxim

--- In CZsynth@y..., Maxim Potekhin <maxim.potekhin@m...> wrote:
> I'm kinda curious to know how people live the inherent
> latency of softsynths... I made a few tried but nothing
> really seems tight, mainly for the soundcad latency reason.

It depends on lots of things.. Firstly with Softsynths one needs fast
PC :-)

Having ASIO drivers help a lot with them latencies like 10-20 ms are
quite common. and buffersizes are usully twaekable.. And backgrould
softtwares may be problem etc.. 

But these latensy issues are highly depending of what software you
use.. I can help on Orion (Platinum edit) but don't use others
(cubase, logic etc..) so can't assist with them. 
 
> 
> Maxim

20ms is something I get on my system, and it's not tight enough
if you use more than one instrument, i.e. outboard gear as well as
soft synth. Adjusting MIDI delays is very hard and unreliable.
20 ms is heck of a lot of delay. Let's say I use 80ms as proper
delay in my song -- 20ms is 25% of that...


maxim

--- In CZsynth@y..., Maxim Potekhin <maxim.potekhin@m...> wrote:
> Could you please send any pointers to the Synthedit?

http://www.synthedit.com/

There should be links to some synths, and dl-page ... 

It has mailing list on Yahoo servers.. 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syntheditusers/ 

Joanna

> 
> Maxim

Sorry I just realized the link for synthedit was right there.
Duh!

Maxim

--- In CZsynth@y..., Maxim Potekhin <maxim.potekhin@m...> wrote:
> 20ms is something I get on my system, and it's not tight enough
> if you use more than one instrument, i.e. outboard gear as well as
> soft synth. Adjusting MIDI delays is very hard and unreliable.
> 20 ms is heck of a lot of delay. Let's say I use 80ms as proper
> delay in my song -- 20ms is 25% of that...

Well.. it can be lowered.. Like raising system playback rate to 96Khz
and dropping buffer length to something like 512 samples. It should be
closer to 1ms.. (not all systems handle that extra load though, nor
all aoftwares offer that capability).. 

VST:s have repeatable sample.accurate timing among others inside that
one PC.. (including FX.es and Mixer software) so it's more problem on
getting external gear to same level. And with midi, it's allways more
or less quesswork. 

Usually latency is problem to people when it's so long that it hinders
playing intrument using midi-keyboard... 

Joanna



 
> 
> maxim

I must have given the wrong impression in my original post.

So keep your CZs since this plug-in isn't even remotely a 
replacement...

I wasn't saying that this was by any means a replacement for or even an attempt at emulating a CZ. What I said was that it seems to be inspired by the CZ synth. I am excited by this synth as it is a step away from analogue modeling subtractive softsynths and that IMO is a step in the right direction. There are obviously more things lacking in this than it has in common with the CZ but I've yet to find something from a commercial outfit that truly departs from the tried and true synth formula like the PlastiCZ does. reFX may not be in the same league as Native Instruments or Steinberg but the products they produce are of a very high standard and they are developing inovative new instruments instead of following the rest of the developers. If you don't think reFX cut it, try out the quadraSID and get back to me.
It seems from the responses here that I am by no means alone in my anxious search for a capable softsynth that can compare to the CZ synth. I long for eight stage envelopes on DCA, DCW and most importantly DCO. Why haven't VSTi developers realised how important it is to be able to control the pitch of every osc with the same accuracy as the amp or filter? why why why.
I am however very pleased with this little plastiCZ synth. It can achieve sounds that I have only ever been able to get on my CZ, the new Virsyn TERA (a very good softsynth) or after lengthy sessions programming the FM7 but the plastiCZ can acheive these sound very quickly and easily as the parameters available are geared toward those type of sounds. I think that we should celebrate this step in the evolution of softsynths and await the next rather than being down on what is a very unassuming yet IMHO pleasing little synth. 
I must also say that I strongly disagree with somma about the sound quality of this synth. It is very good and the FX are by no means what make the pleasing sounds they are mearly a sweetener to some very strong synthesis. I still highly recommend it and know that It will become one of my most often used synths as it offers such unique (in the VSTi domain) sounds. 
On a different note Maxim wrote:
20ms is something I get on my system, and it's not tight enough
if you use more than one instrument, i.e. outboard gear as well as
soft synth. Adjusting MIDI delays is very hard and unreliable.
20 ms is heck of a lot of delay. Let's say I use 80ms as proper
delay in my song -- 20ms is 25% of that...

I agree 20ms is nearly good enough but don't quite cut it. Anything under 20ms feels passable to me. I have a Delta44 sound card and using the latest WDM version drivers I get asio latency as low as 2ms. I tend to go with 8ms as I get marginaly better performance sound wise. I find 8ms more than acceptable. The latency you get from softsynths relies mostly on the quality of the asio drivers for your sound card. I don't think It depends on the software/sequencer you use so long as it supports asio drivers.  
Anyway thanks for all the responses and the honest opinions I may not agree with but I do respect them.
Cheers,
dan



---------------------------------
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I use a VZ8m

Regards

Graham

Graham@...

Hi Maxim,

I'm still using and liking my VZ-1 and waiting for someone building a 
good FM-Softsynth like FMheaven and FM7 with ring modulation :) 
As soon as I gain some experience with reaktor I probably built my 
own one... ;) Anyway I'd prefere having a specialised and optimised 
softsynth for this...
When it comes to the latency I'm getting along well with 26ms as long 
as I don't have to play percussive Sounds since the sequencer is 
compensate the delay when playing back the MIDI data...

...Summa


On 19 Sep 2002 at 9:43, Maxim Potekhin wrote:

> How many ppl on this list are also using VZ's?
> 
> Maxim
> 
> PS. Or should I say VZ'z  ?
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

A Touch of Future - Project: http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
Casio CZ Synth Station: http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ 

CZ/VZ list   : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth
FMHeaven list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/

Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!

>How many ppl on this list are also using VZ's?

I've got a VZ-10M

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world\ufffds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

--- In CZsynth@y..., dan <where2463@y...> wrote:
> 
> I must have given the wrong impression in my original post.
> 
> So keep your CZs since this plug-in isn't even remotely a 
> replacement...

I think I may welll purchase it still.. It has soem neat sound
qualities.. that rhoughness is ReFX trademark and allthough I don't
much preciate eyecandy that synth have enough strong points that it
may well be worth that $$$ ... 

> 
> I wasn't saying that this was by any means a replacement 
> for or even an attempt at emulating a CZ. What I said was 
> that it seems to be inspired by the CZ synth. I am excited 
> by this synth as it is a step away from analogue modeling 
> subtractive softsynths and that IMO is a step in the right 
> direction. There are obviously more things lacking in this 
> than it has in common with the CZ but I've yet to find 
> something from a commercial outfit that truly departs from 
> the tried and true synth formula like the PlastiCZ does.

Agree ... Those ADSR:s are too much 'old analog' to be IMHO true PD
synth, but it's a good start. And what I asked from Mr Kelps, they are
planing to make v2.0 later.. I hope it'll have some of those features. 

> reFX may not be in the same league as Native Instruments 
> or Steinberg but the products they produce are of a very 
> high standard and they are developing inovative new instruments
> instead of following the rest of the developers. If you 
> don't think reFX cut it, try out the quadraSID and get back
> to me.

I'm owner of QuadraSid.. It's nice synth with unique sound (it's abit
too unique to fit onto my stuff... Plasticz feels immediately more
right) but way too ackward to be useful as a tweakers tool. Getting
right kind sound of it takes more work and knowledge than getting
sound of Yamaha DX-7 and that's a lot.

> It seems from the responses here that I am by no means alone 
> in my anxious search for a capable softsynth that can compare
> to the CZ synth. I long for eight stage envelopes on DCA, DCW 
> and most importantly DCO. Why haven't VSTi developers realised 
> how important it is to be able to control the pitch of every 
> osc with the same accuracy as the amp or filter? why why why.

I have pushed this to all those I know in this business... And I have
Syncmodular but it lacked (at least las time I checked) decent
PD-oscillator. Synthedit has that one, (and it even has 8-stage
envelopes) but it's lacking on GUI department. I have not seen any
clever way to make those envelopes on it. having 6*16 sliders ain't
the right approach...

(I'm not having that Native intruments Reactor. it's too overpriced
and underpowered ...)

> I am however very pleased with this little plastiCZ synth. It 
> can achieve sounds that I have only ever been able to get on 
> my CZ, the new Virsyn TERA (a very good softsynth) or after 
> lengthy sessions programming the FM7 but the plastiCZ can 
> acheive these sound very quickly and easily as the parameters 
> available are geared toward those type of sounds. I think 
> that we should celebrate this step in the evolution of softsynths 
> and await the next rather than being down on what is a very
>  unassuming yet IMHO pleasing little synth. 

(I borrow my own comment from Orion-board.. )
"It's definitely easier and IMHO better than CZ-101 for short sounds
like basses etc.. But on long sounds (atmospheric stuff and some Fxes)
those lousy 2 ADSR-s get into way. I have not gone thru it all but
othervice it sounds really promicing. Some of those effects it has are
really good and add depth to sound."

> I must also say that I strongly disagree with somma about the 
> sound quality of this synth. It is very good and the FX are 
> by no means what make the pleasing sounds they are mearly a 
> sweetener to some very strong synthesis. I still highly recommend 
> it and know that It will become one of my most often used synths 
> as it offers such unique (in the VSTi domain) sounds. 

It's ReFX synth... What else people are expecting about sounds? It's
plain, brutal, powerfull and charmingly efective. It can be subtle but
you need to be extra carefull about DCW parameter.. Overusing it WILL
make it sound scratchy. 

It's not clone Cz-101 but rather has charasteristics of his own.. If
it had those six decent envelopes that price (59usd I think) would be
steal.. Now, i need to think if I want to spend that much on a bit
partial synth.. 


Joanna