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Long term reliability

Long term reliability

2005-07-09 by K Lim

Hello all.
I'm considering getting the PEK in the near future.
I would be grateful if any long term users would
comment on their experience regarding the reliability
of any of the DSI Evolver models.
Are there any common faults or reliability issues with
the product?
How durable are the rotary encoders, has anyone had
any failures?
If someone has had faults how were
repairs/replacements dealt with, was the unit shipped
back to DSI/ did DSI send out replacement parts for
the user to undertake a fix.

I'm wondering if it may be worthwhile waiting for a
later batch of the keyboard to appear in case there
are any problems with the first production run of the
PEK. Were there any later fixes to the mono or poly
models after the first models had appeared?

I have noted some comments regarding the Evolver
becoming unresponsive to MIDI and requiring a factory
reset to remedy the situation. Has anyone experienced
this problem, is it common known issue?

Thanks for any comments.


		
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Re: [Evolver] Long term reliability

2005-07-10 by Miles Bader

2005/7/10, K Lim <bukorong@...>:
> I would be grateful if any long term users would comment on their
> experience regarding the reliability of any of the DSI Evolver models.
> Are there any common faults or reliability issues with the product?
> How durable are the rotary encoders, has anyone had any failures?

The only thing I've heard (about the Evolver; it's obviously a bit early
for much about the PEK) is that some people have had encoder issues; I
suppose this is to be expected as encoders in general seem less reliable
than pots (usually -- see the Alesis Ion for an exception to the rule).
However, FWIW, I've owned two Evolvers for several years and haven't had
any such problems; it seems to be a relatively rare issue (I've never
seen a message from anyone that actually had such a failure, only heard
rumors of it).

The encoders very occasionally misread -- go up for a few steps instead
of down -- but this seems to be more a design fault with the encoders or
the software, not hardware failure (mine have done this since the
beginning, and it's so occasional that it's not a real problem).

[I vaguely recall reading some message from one the PEK beta-testers
saying that Dave had done something to address encoder failures in the
PEK, but I don't know how.]

One of my Evolver's CPU chips failed; DSI sent out a replacement for
free (though the unit was long out of warranty), and I replaced it
myself ("undo screws, swap the [socketed] chip, redo screws").

> If someone has had faults how were repairs/replacements dealt with,
> was the unit shipped back to DSI/ did DSI send out replacement parts
> for the user to undertake a fix.

DSI is in general very, very, responsive to support queries, will bend
over backwards to get things fixed up, and won't bullshit you.  It's
often D.S. himself who responds; being the designer, he's obviously
immensely knowledgeable, but he's also very friendly and no-nonsense.
It's an extremely refreshing experience if you're used to typical
manufacturer "support".

It seems that the preferred approach is to, where possible, send the
user a new part and have him replace it (e.g. the CPU replacement I
mentioned above).  Obviously this only works for some parts, but I
_really, really, like_ this method, as it's sooo much less annoying than
the typical "ship entire box to have screw tightened" method that the
big-volume synth makers use.

Many people will probably buy the PEK from a dealer, and I don't know
how that affects support (DSI still happily responds to PEK queries, but
I suppose they may want to have the dealer handle any wholesale
replacements and such).

> I'm wondering if it may be worthwhile waiting for a later batch of the
> keyboard to appear in case there are any problems with the first
> production run of the PEK.

I just bought a PEK, and sent email to DSI with a few complaints; the
only real issue seems to be the pitch-bend wheel:  the spring is too
strong.  Apparently they bought the wheel assemblies from Moog (they're
the same as the minimoog voyager), so he's going to check with them.

[Replacing the pitch-bend spring probably falls into the "easily
done by the user" category, if it comes to that though.]

The most widely talked about problem is the misspelling of "fiilter" on
the front panel -- and supposedly this will _not_ be fixed.
[I guess they ordered 10,000 front-panels...d'oh! :-]

> Were there any later fixes to the mono or
> poly models after the first models had appeared?

_Very_ early model Evolvers (maybe still classifiable as beta units; I'm
not sure if the problem was noticed before or after they started
shipping for real) apparently had some issues with noise in the analogue
electronic.  I recall reading about them on some mailing list, but I'm
not sure if it's this one or the ex5-forum.

I don't know about the rack.

I think the PEK electronics are largely the same as the rack, so there's
probably less risk of issues there than with the original.

> I have noted some comments regarding the Evolver becoming unresponsive
> to MIDI and requiring a factory reset to remedy the situation. Has
> anyone experienced this problem, is it common known issue?

I've never heard of it before.

BTW, in case anyone's curious about the resolution of my earlier "buy
PEK local or mail-order?" query, I ended up buying from the U.S., from
"Analogue Haven" (http://analoguehaven.com); they're _far_ more clueful
and helpful about analogue synths than most retailers, very friendly and
honest -- and at this point everybody has the same price for the PEK
anyway, so you might as well buy from them.  They also pack very well
(they built a second box _around_ the original PEK box and wrapped the
result in several layers of plastic; I think it would have been safe to
drop kick the whole thing across the pacific if I could deal with the
resulting property damage when it landed...).

My good experiences with DSI support in the past (and that Analogue
Haven are not your usual scum retailer) definitely made me less nervous
about buying a PEK early.

-Miles
-- 
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

Re: [Evolver] Long term reliability

2005-07-10 by afro_88

> > If someone has had faults how were repairs/replacements dealt with,
> > was the unit shipped back to DSI/ did DSI send out replacement parts
> > for the user to undertake a fix.
> 
> DSI is in general very, very, responsive to support queries, will bend
> over backwards to get things fixed up, and won't bullshit you.  It's
> often D.S. himself who responds; being the designer, he's obviously
> immensely knowledgeable, but he's also very friendly and no-nonsense.
> It's an extremely refreshing experience if you're used to typical
> manufacturer "support".

I'll second this. I somehow lost 2 knobs from my Evolver at a gig. I
emailed Dave to get a part number so I could order some replacements
myself. He mailed out a few for free - even though I live in Australia!

I don't think there are any support or warranty issues to worry about!! :D

Max

Re: Long term reliability

2005-07-10 by kmcdonaldk

I do not curently own an evolver, but I am considering buying one if 
I can ever hear one in Phoenix. (Guitar Center, who is unfortunteley 
their dealer here, does not have one on display.) So, take my 
curmudgeonly opinion with a grain of salt.

No instrument which uses a wall wart can be considered considered 
well-bulit, in my opinion, or at least hardly road worthy. The unit 
itself may be very well built, but wall warts are cheap commodity 
items which typically employ no strain relief (or, if it does, it 
will most likely be a flimsy plastic tab near the connector), use 
cheap wiring, and the DC connectors in the base units themselves are 
cheap receptacles costing pennies, with sloppy mating action, and are 
probably rated for only 50 insertion/removal cycles. I would bet that 
manufacturers who employ wall warts do not bother to test the 
individual wart before shipping.

Generally, vendors (of which DSI may very well be an exception) will 
claim that using a wall wart in the design isolates the unit from AC 
noise, while never explaining how other manufacturers of professional 
equipment o=have overcome this deficiency. Or, they may claim that 
use of a wall wart makes it easier to pass electrical compliance 
testing in various foreign markets while having to support only one 
base design/unit.

The truth is that a small investment (maybe $1, I'm guessing 
educationally) will probably permit installation of a workable AC 
unit that can accommoddate most forseeable markets' line voltage 
characteristics.

I interpret use of wall warts as a sign of contempt by a manufacturer 
for their customers. This reaction may be a little extreme, but wall 
warts certainly are not indicative of a desire to make their products 
convenient, sturdy, and easy to use.

Having said all that, I'm still anxious to be able to audition an 
Evolver here so that I can determine whether the instruments benefits 
outweigh this one aggravating shortcoming.

Re: [Evolver] Re: Long term reliability

2005-07-10 by Miles Bader

2005/7/11, kmcdonaldk <kmmcdonald@...>:
> itself may be very well built, but wall warts are cheap commodity
> items which typically employ no strain relief (or, if it does, it
> will most likely be a flimsy plastic tab near the connector),

FWIW the PEK has a strain-relief hook near the power socket.  It's
plastic... but frankly, if enough force gets applied to the power
cable to break the tab, I _want_ the tab to break (and the connector
to pull out) rather than yanking my $$$ keyboard across the floor! 
[Though I assume that in practice, there'll probably be more keyboard
yanking than tab-breaking... :-( ]

> Generally, vendors (of which DSI may very well be an exception) will
> claim that using a wall wart in the design isolates the unit from AC
> noise, while never explaining how other manufacturers of professional
> equipment o=have overcome this deficiency. Or, they may claim that
> use of a wall wart makes it easier to pass electrical compliance
> testing in various foreign markets while having to support only one
> base design/unit.

As far as I know, the main factor is the cost of compliance testing,
especially of multiple designs (apparently you need to retest for
every new design) and multiple national standards, which apparently is
not a small deal for small manufacturers.  Big manufacturers can
swallow the cost; some small ones choose to do so as well, but using,
an external power supply seems a very reasonable thing to me,
especially if the maker cares about foreign markets (which DSI
obviously does).

Some things I actually like about external power supplies is that
they're (1) simple to replace whether for failure or for foreign
markets (though all of DSI's stuff uses universal supplies), and (2)
it removes a major heat source from the case!

> I interpret use of wall warts as a sign of contempt by a manufacturer
> for their customers. This reaction may be a little extreme, but wall
> warts certainly are not indicative of a desire to make their products
> convenient, sturdy, and easy to use.

Well now you're just spewing...

Go have a beer or something, it's hot.

-Miles
-- 
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

Re: [Evolver] Re: Long term reliability

2005-07-10 by Carbon111

> I interpret use of wall warts as a sign of contempt by a manufacturer 
> for their customers. This reaction may be a little extreme, but wall 
> warts certainly are not indicative of a desire to make their products 
> convenient, sturdy, and easy to use.

Actually its usually because manufacturers want to avoid the long and 
laborious, not to mention expensive, FCC clearence process.
The Evolver's power supply is not a "wallwart" per se, but a "lump in 
the line" design.
Best Regards, James
--
http://www.carbon111.com/evolver.html

Re: [Evolver] Re: Long term reliability

2005-07-11 by don hassler

I've never been a fan of wall warts, but, they do
reduce the cost of manufacture. Housings may be
inadequate, UL approval is a big issue, product
liability. I think the expense would quite exceed the
raw parts cost.
--- kmcdonaldk <kmmcdonald@...> wrote:

> I do not curently own an evolver, but I am
> considering buying one if 
> I can ever hear one in Phoenix. (Guitar Center, who
> is unfortunteley 
> their dealer here, does not have one on display.)
> So, take my 
> curmudgeonly opinion with a grain of salt.
> 
> No instrument which uses a wall wart can be
> considered considered 
> well-bulit, in my opinion, or at least hardly road
> worthy. The unit 
> itself may be very well built, but wall warts are
> cheap commodity 
> items which typically employ no strain relief (or,
> if it does, it 
> will most likely be a flimsy plastic tab near the
> connector), use 
> cheap wiring, and the DC connectors in the base
> units themselves are 
> cheap receptacles costing pennies, with sloppy
> mating action, and are 
> probably rated for only 50 insertion/removal cycles.
> I would bet that 
> manufacturers who employ wall warts do not bother to
> test the 
> individual wart before shipping.
> 
> Generally, vendors (of which DSI may very well be an
> exception) will 
> claim that using a wall wart in the design isolates
> the unit from AC 
> noise, while never explaining how other
> manufacturers of professional 
> equipment o=have overcome this deficiency. Or, they
> may claim that 
> use of a wall wart makes it easier to pass
> electrical compliance 
> testing in various foreign markets while having to
> support only one 
> base design/unit.
> 
> The truth is that a small investment (maybe $1, I'm
> guessing 
> educationally) will probably permit installation of
> a workable AC 
> unit that can accommoddate most forseeable markets'
> line voltage 
> characteristics.
> 
> I interpret use of wall warts as a sign of contempt
> by a manufacturer 
> for their customers. This reaction may be a little
> extreme, but wall 
> warts certainly are not indicative of a desire to
> make their products 
> convenient, sturdy, and easy to use.
> 
> Having said all that, I'm still anxious to be able
> to audition an 
> Evolver here so that I can determine whether the
> instruments benefits 
> outweigh this one aggravating shortcoming.
> 
> 
> 



		
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions \ufffd no fees. Bid on great items.  
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

[Evolver] Re: Long term reliability

2005-07-11 by Dave

> I interpret use of wall warts as a sign of contempt by a manufacturer
> for their customers. This reaction may be a little extreme, but wall
> warts certainly are not indicative of a desire to make their products
> convenient, sturdy, and easy to use.

Dave has no contempt whatsoever for his customers.  He's actually one of the nicest guys 
you'll ever want to meet.

He also doesn't do things without a very good reason (sometimes several).  If you want to 
know why he decided to go with the external adaptor, you should give him a call

(707) 963-7006.  He answers the phone himself, and will be glad to speak with you.

dB
DSI

Re: [Evolver] Re: Long term reliability

2005-07-11 by moose

>> > I interpret use of wall warts as a sign of contempt by a manufacturer
>> > for their customers. This reaction may be a little extreme, but wall
>> > warts certainly are not indicative of a desire to make their products
>> > convenient, sturdy, and easy to use.
> 
wall warts do serve a good purpose.  if, for any reason, a **universal**
auto-switching power supply can't be installed internally then having a line
lump is the next best thing.  why?  well, people do move to different
countries and, of course, go on tour, and its far easier buying a new line
lump than having the internal power supply changed.  imo wall warts should
be the last option.

note : there might be a heat issue as i know that the evolver's line lump
gets hot.

...but the PEK's line lump probably 'evolved' from the original evolver
simply not having enough space for an internal power supply.  this has been
less & less an issue as the boxes got bigger, but having the same line lump
cuts down on redesigning the power supply input stage.


i personally don't have any issue whatsoever with DS's decisions, but i do
have issue with other companies using non-standard power connectors - eg the
korg esx-1!  thats just plain wrong!

}:-)

moose@...
general email : email@...
http://analoguehaven.com
tel : 1-909-622-4556

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