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RE: [DSI Synths] Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

RE: [DSI Synths] Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-15 by plexus

My "repaired" board with the newer encoders has been shipped! I am used to using analogue synths and pots as of, oh, early 80's. but I dont mind encoders. I have no driving need to spend $550 to replace my boards with pots. as long as the encoders work, and keep working, i am happy. i actually have a box of the replacement encoders in the case i do need to replace them but i hope i never have to replace all of them! hope it works... i will let you know...

Re: [DSI Synths] Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-15 by Dale

Yep
I am going to open it up and clean them ... even if they was pots, unless sealed like Paul S uses on the MOTM, in my area, they get dirty ... and I would have to do that too. I am not looking forward to that ... ;-)
But I also have to consider, I clean the guitars, the horns, the saxs, flutes and so on too ... just another thing that is needed ...
Feel wise, until I ran into this, I been ok with the encoders. On the modular stuff I have the pots and they are much nicer to do certain things sound wise with ... now I am very much considering, this has to change .... mind set yea ... something shorted out between the ears now and I am head strong on changing them both out (PEK and P'08) ... I am twisting my own arm to clean them (encoders) ...
I did run into problems on live gigs with them in low light with the encoders. The feel is not there in that setting. In the studio, I can take the time to get it just right or set it up. Tap the case, the numbers are changing now, that is a problem. If that was live, low light ... just a bonehead thing waiting to happen ...
yep ... I can see the 8 ball in front of me ...
dale
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: plexus
My "repaired" board with the newer encoders has been shipped! I am used to using analogue synths and pots as of, oh, early 80's. but I dont mind encoders. I have no driving need to spend $550 to replace my boards with pots. as long as the encoders work, and keep working, i am happy. i actually have a box of the replacement encoders in the case i do need to replace them but i hope i never have to replace all of them! hope it works... i will let you know...

fs: mek

2011-02-16 by Ancient Eyeball Recipe

This one has irksome knobs. As I understand it deoxit may or may not work well, but DSI offers a relatively cheap fix. Please research before buying.

I'll ship it to you if you're in the continental US for $700 and pay shipping and paypal fees. Good trader references all over the place...

Re: [DSI Synths] Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-23 by plexus

I got my replacement boards today with the "new" encoders. it looks like they do a "core exchange" with the boards meaning i got sent boards which were not the ones i sent, but with the "new" encoders. no big deal. my boards were the usual green fiberglass boards where-as what i got back were red ones. now, the encoders are interesting... i was quite surprised to find they had 360 degree detents! with just the card sitting on lap i played with the knobs and i wasn't totally disgusted about it. in fact i was curious that maybe just maybe they would be nice to use, although in my head, having a lot of old analogue gear, the idea of smooth knobs is my status quo. after installing the boards and playing around with it, i have to say... it wasn't better or worse. it was just different. but the new encoders do feel better. the detents actually maybe make it feel a little more... expensive. you know? smooth rotating encoders can feel cheap especially if the shaft is a little loose. these feel really good and i think i am going to like these encoders (shoot me :-).

plexus

Re: [DSI Synths] Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-27 by plexus

I was told by DSI that the new encoders are made by ALPS. so that is great news! i am actually liking the detent encoders!

On 23 Feb 2011, at 12:43 AM, plexus wrote:

I got my replacement boards today with the "new" encoders. it looks like they do a "core exchange" with the boards meaning i got sent boards which were not the ones i sent, but with the "new" encoders. no big deal. my boards were the usual green fiberglass boards where-as what i got back were red ones. now, the encoders are interesting... i was quite surprised to find they had 360 degree detents! with just the card sitting on lap i played with the knobs and i wasn't totally disgusted about it. in fact i was curious that maybe just maybe they would be nice to use, although in my head, having a lot of old analogue gear, the idea of smooth knobs is my status quo. after installing the boards and playing around with it, i have to say... it wasn't better or worse. it was just different. but the new encoders do feel better. the detents actually maybe make it feel a little more... expensive. you know? smooth rotating encoders can feel cheap especially if the shaft is a little loose. these feel really good and i think i am going to like these encoders (shoot me :-).

plexus


Re: [DSI Synths] Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-27 by a33e

Is it possible to replace old encoders with higher quality encoders instead of potentiometers?
I have no obsession to potentiometers and i actually like good encoders more. Especially those that I've used in Waldorf's.

If you could suggest direct replacement part that does not require any other changes to circuit boards it would be helpful. =)

(I have worked years in electronic industry and consider myself as professional with soldering iron. 
So please don't give me those "don't-do-it-you-lose-our-guarantee-and-break-your-evolver" answers).

.ja - http://soundcloud.com/tvr/



--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus <musiclists@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I was told by DSI that the new encoders are made by ALPS. so that is great news! i am actually liking the detent encoders!
>

Re: [DSI Synths] Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-27 by plexus

yes. this was the nature of the upgrade i got done by DSI. they replaced the old encoders with new ALPS ones. the cost was $75US plus about $25CAD to ship the boards to them and another $15 CAD in UPS brokerage fees. so for me it was about $115 CAD. i am on the fence about paying for a manufacturing error that was beyond my control but on the other hand they are upgraded encoders, not the cheap chinese ones that were initially used but quality ALPS. for myself, the >$550 to go to pots would not be worth it. i kinda like the encoders and my other analogue synths make up for any potenitometer action i crave. :)

you could do the swap yourself but then again there are about 70 encoders. to get DSI to do it for you for $100 is actually pretty good considering the time it would take. i am not sure of what encoders you'd need to do the swap. i do have a part number (i think) for a cheaper chinese part: Soundwell EC121102X2B-HA1-142

Here is what i know, the original encoders did not have a split knob shaft. there are grey in colour. DSI offered me some replacements earlier on which are the part number above - these have a split grey shaft and are harder to turn. the ones they replace for you, made by ALPS, have black shafts. i do not see any other part number markings on these. The ALPS have 24 detents. I looked on the Soundwell site and the part number is not listed (however in the past I remember it being listed). Perhaps they pulled it because of problems?

Brett

On 27 Feb 2011, at 7:33 AM, a33e wrote:

Is it possible to replace old encoders with higher quality encoders instead of potentiometers?
I have no obsession to potentiometers and i actually like good encoders more. Especially those that I've used in Waldorf's.

If you could suggest direct replacement part that does not require any other changes to circuit boards it would be helpful. =)

(I have worked years in electronic industry and consider myself as professional with soldering iron.
So please don't give me those "don't-do-it-you-lose-our-guarantee-and-break-your-evolver" answers).

.ja - http://soundcloud.com/tvr/

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus wrote:
>
> I was told by DSI that the new encoders are made by ALPS. so that is great news! i am actually liking the detent encoders!
>


Re: [DSI Synths] Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-27 by Tom Wiltshire

I don't own a DSI synth, so I can't compare the encoders, but I've bought ALPS encoders for various projects. "EC12" is a series of encoders they make, so the 'cheap chinese part number' you mention is probably a clone of one of the ALPs series:

http://www.alps.com/WebObjects/catalog.woa/E/HTML/Encoder/Incremental/EC12E/EC12E_list.html

Maybe you can work out which ones you've got and find a part number?

I'm inclined to agree about the cost though. For small numbers, you'll pay over a dollar per encoder, so you'd spend $100 just buying the encoders, never mind fitting them. For example:

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500003+1003419&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=EC12&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial


HTH,
Tom
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 27 Feb 2011, at 20:12, plexus wrote:

> 
> 
> yes. this was the nature of the upgrade i got done by DSI. they replaced the old encoders with new ALPS ones. the cost was $75US plus about $25CAD to ship the boards to them and another $15 CAD in UPS brokerage fees. so for me it was about $115 CAD. i am on the fence about paying for a manufacturing error that was beyond my control but on the other hand they are upgraded encoders, not the cheap chinese ones that were initially used but quality ALPS. for myself, the >$550 to go to pots would not be worth it. i kinda like the encoders and my other analogue synths make up for any potenitometer action i crave. :)
> 
> you could do the swap yourself but then again there are about 70 encoders. to get DSI to do it for you for $100 is actually pretty good considering the time it would take. i am not sure of what encoders you'd need to do the swap. i do have a part number (i think) for a cheaper chinese part: Soundwell EC121102X2B-HA1-142 
> 
> Here is what i know, the original encoders did not have a split knob shaft. there are grey in colour. DSI offered me some replacements earlier on which are the part number above - these have a split grey shaft and are harder to turn. the ones they replace for you, made by ALPS, have black shafts. i do not see any other part number markings on these. The ALPS have 24 detents. I looked on the Soundwell site and the part number is not listed (however in the past I remember it being listed). Perhaps they pulled it because of problems? 
> 
> Brett
> 
> On 27 Feb 2011, at 7:33 AM, a33e wrote:
> 
>> Is it possible to replace old encoders with higher quality encoders instead of potentiometers?
>> I have no obsession to potentiometers and i actually like good encoders more. Especially those that I've used in Waldorf's.
>> 
>> If you could suggest direct replacement part that does not require any other changes to circuit boards it would be helpful. =)
>> 
>> (I have worked years in electronic industry and consider myself as professional with soldering iron. 
>> So please don't give me those "don't-do-it-you-lose-our-guarantee-and-break-your-evolver" answers).
>> 
>> .ja - http://soundcloud.com/tvr/
>> 
>> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus <musiclists@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > I was told by DSI that the new encoders are made by ALPS. so that is great news! i am actually liking the detent encoders!
>> > 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-28 by steven

question about these alps 'detent' encoders--- what do you mean by 'detent' --like a clicky action rather than smooth?  does that mean it clicks each numerical value? so for a 128 number range of values  do you turn it 5 times?  otherwise it sounds like a good deal  for $75-- i personally dont find  good encoders to be any limitation--just play any Waldorf .
 The traditional problem with Pot controls is how if you have a  program memory set the value, the control has to  be turned back a lot  to pass through the memory setting to get back to full normal range.  Encoders dont have this issue . I like that.

too bad we have to now pay extra to DSI  and  give up our instruments  for a while to get good ones.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus <musiclists@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> yes. this was the nature of the upgrade i got done by DSI. they replaced the old encoders with new ALPS ones. the cost was $75US plus about $25CAD to ship the boards to them and another $15 CAD in UPS brokerage fees. so for me it was about $115 CAD. i am on the fence about paying for a manufacturing error that was beyond my control but on the other hand they are upgraded encoders, not the cheap chinese ones that were initially used but quality ALPS. for myself, the >$550 to go to pots would not be worth it. i kinda like the encoders and my other analogue synths make up for any potenitometer action i crave. :)
> 
> you could do the swap yourself but then again there are about 70 encoders. to get DSI to do it for you for $100 is actually pretty good considering the time it would take. i am not sure of what encoders you'd need to do the swap. i do have a part number (i think) for a cheaper chinese part: Soundwell EC121102X2B-HA1-142 
> 
> Here is what i know, the original encoders did not have a split knob shaft. there are grey in colour. DSI offered me some replacements earlier on which are the part number above - these have a split grey shaft and are harder to turn. the ones they replace for you, made by ALPS, have black shafts. i do not see any other part number markings on these. The ALPS have 24 detents. I looked on the Soundwell site and the part number is not listed (however in the past I remember it being listed). Perhaps they pulled it because of problems? 
> 
> Brett
> 
> On 27 Feb 2011, at 7:33 AM, a33e wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible to replace old encoders with higher quality encoders instead of potentiometers?
> > I have no obsession to potentiometers and i actually like good encoders more. Especially those that I've used in Waldorf's.
> > 
> > If you could suggest direct replacement part that does not require any other changes to circuit boards it would be helpful. =)
> > 
> > (I have worked years in electronic industry and consider myself as professional with soldering iron. 
> > So please don't give me those "don't-do-it-you-lose-our-guarantee-and-break-your-evolver" answers).
> > 
> > .ja - http://soundcloud.com/tvr/
> > 
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus <musiclists@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was told by DSI that the new encoders are made by ALPS. so that is great news! i am actually liking the detent encoders!
> > > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-28 by a33e

Couple links to ALPS encoders. 

http://www.alps.com/WebObjects/catalog.woa/E/HTML/Encoder/Encoder_list1.html

http://www.alps.com/WebObjects/catalog.woa/E/HTML/Encoder/Incremental/EC12E/EC12E_list.html

Doing job by myself i can test encoder types first one by one.
If it works the way i want i replace rest knowing that i would be happy with end results.

Changing all at once without knowing how those would actually feel is like lottery, IMHO.

What i'd like to know is which are physically and technically compatible ones?
ALPS pages inform whether they work incremental/absolute and their "Rotational torque" (resistance to twist) -and there are choises like standard / lightest(jog).

I guess that rotational torque is one of those things that needs to be tested.

.ja - http://soundcloud.com/tvr/





--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "steven" <wasteking1@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> question about these alps 'detent' encoders--- what do you mean by 'detent' --like a clicky action rather than smooth?  does that mean it clicks each numerical value? so for a 128 number range of values  do you turn it 5 times?  otherwise it sounds like a good deal  for $75-- i personally dont find  good encoders to be any limitation--just play any Waldorf .
>  The traditional problem with Pot controls is how if you have a  program memory set the value, the control has to  be turned back a lot  to pass through the memory setting to get back to full normal range.  Encoders dont have this issue . I like that.
> 
> too bad we have to now pay extra to DSI  and  give up our instruments  for a while to get good ones.
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus <musiclists@> wrote:
> >
> > yes. this was the nature of the upgrade i got done by DSI. they replaced the old encoders with new ALPS ones. the cost was $75US plus about $25CAD to ship the boards to them and another $15 CAD in UPS brokerage fees. so for me it was about $115 CAD. i am on the fence about paying for a manufacturing error that was beyond my control but on the other hand they are upgraded encoders, not the cheap chinese ones that were initially used but quality ALPS. for myself, the >$550 to go to pots would not be worth it. i kinda like the encoders and my other analogue synths make up for any potenitometer action i crave. :)
> > 
> > you could do the swap yourself but then again there are about 70 encoders. to get DSI to do it for you for $100 is actually pretty good considering the time it would take. i am not sure of what encoders you'd need to do the swap. i do have a part number (i think) for a cheaper chinese part: Soundwell EC121102X2B-HA1-142 
> > 
> > Here is what i know, the original encoders did not have a split knob shaft. there are grey in colour. DSI offered me some replacements earlier on which are the part number above - these have a split grey shaft and are harder to turn. the ones they replace for you, made by ALPS, have black shafts. i do not see any other part number markings on these. The ALPS have 24 detents. I looked on the Soundwell site and the part number is not listed (however in the past I remember it being listed). Perhaps they pulled it because of problems? 
> > 
> > Brett
> > 
> > On 27 Feb 2011, at 7:33 AM, a33e wrote:
> > 
> > > Is it possible to replace old encoders with higher quality encoders instead of potentiometers?
> > > I have no obsession to potentiometers and i actually like good encoders more. Especially those that I've used in Waldorf's.
> > > 
> > > If you could suggest direct replacement part that does not require any other changes to circuit boards it would be helpful. =)
> > > 
> > > (I have worked years in electronic industry and consider myself as professional with soldering iron. 
> > > So please don't give me those "don't-do-it-you-lose-our-guarantee-and-break-your-evolver" answers).
> > > 
> > > .ja - http://soundcloud.com/tvr/
> > > 
> > > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus <musiclists@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was told by DSI that the new encoders are made by ALPS. so that is great news! i am actually liking the detent encoders!
> > > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
>

Re: Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-28 by steven

so How do you get this encoder swap through DSI?--is it discretely hidden on their site as  "service 'repair payment'" ? 

 but you have to send $100 per board then get a $75 refund per board. If vthat is it, Its not well described on the DSI site-- in fact, VERY OBSCURE.and provides little instruction

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus <musiclists@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> yes. this was the nature of the upgrade i got done by DSI. they replaced the old encoders with new ALPS ones. the cost was $75US plus about $25CAD to ship the boards to them and another $15 CAD in UPS brokerage fees. so for me it was about $115 CAD. i am on the fence about paying for a manufacturing error that was beyond my control but on the other hand they are upgraded encoders, not the cheap chinese ones that were initially used but quality ALPS. for myself, the >$550 to go to pots would not be worth it. i kinda like the encoders and my other analogue synths make up for any potenitometer action i crave. :)
> 
> you could do the swap yourself but then again there are about 70 encoders. to get DSI to do it for you for $100 is actually pretty good considering the time it would take. i am not sure of what encoders you'd need to do the swap. i do have a part number (i think) for a cheaper chinese part: Soundwell EC121102X2B-HA1-142 
> 
> Here is what i know, the original encoders did not have a split knob shaft. there are grey in colour. DSI offered me some replacements earlier on which are the part number above - these have a split grey shaft and are harder to turn. the ones they replace for you, made by ALPS, have black shafts. i do not see any other part number markings on these. The ALPS have 24 detents. I looked on the Soundwell site and the part number is not listed (however in the past I remember it being listed). Perhaps they pulled it because of problems? 
> 
> Brett
> 
> On 27 Feb 2011, at 7:33 AM, a33e wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible to replace old encoders with higher quality encoders instead of potentiometers?
> > I have no obsession to potentiometers and i actually like good encoders more. Especially those that I've used in Waldorf's.
> > 
> > If you could suggest direct replacement part that does not require any other changes to circuit boards it would be helpful. =)
> > 
> > (I have worked years in electronic industry and consider myself as professional with soldering iron. 
> > So please don't give me those "don't-do-it-you-lose-our-guarantee-and-break-your-evolver" answers).
> > 
> > .ja - http://soundcloud.com/tvr/
> > 
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus <musiclists@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was told by DSI that the new encoders are made by ALPS. so that is great news! i am actually liking the detent encoders!
> > > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [DSI Synths] Re: Potentiometer 'upgrade' --- comments? is it a good thing?

2011-02-28 by plexus

email service. they will give you instructions. at least, thats what i did.

the ALPS encoders have 24 detents around the full 360 degree rotation of the knob. each click increments the value of the parameter. the detents in the encoders used is very soft so its not like a hard click into place. rather its a soft physical feedback of each increment. this is actually quite nice in practice.

On 28 Feb 2011, at 10:51 AM, steven wrote:

so How do you get this encoder swap through DSI?--is it discretely hidden on their site as "service 'repair payment'" ?

but you have to send $100 per board then get a $75 refund per board. If vthat is it, Its not well described on the DSI site-- in fact, VERY OBSCURE.and provides little instruction

--- In DSI_Evolver@...m, plexus wrote:
>
> yes. this was the nature of the upgrade i got done by DSI. they replaced the old encoders with new ALPS ones. the cost was $75US plus about $25CAD to ship the boards to them and another $15 CAD in UPS brokerage fees. so for me it was about $115 CAD. i am on the fence about paying for a manufacturing error that was beyond my control but on the other hand they are upgraded encoders, not the cheap chinese ones that were initially used but quality ALPS. for myself, the >$550 to go to pots would not be worth it. i kinda like the encoders and my other analogue synths make up for any potenitometer action i crave. :)
>
> you could do the swap yourself but then again there are about 70 encoders. to get DSI to do it for you for $100 is actually pretty good considering the time it would take. i am not sure of what encoders you'd need to do the swap. i do have a part number (i think) for a cheaper chinese part: Soundwell EC121102X2B-HA1-142
>
> Here is what i know, the original encoders did not have a split knob shaft. there are grey in colour. DSI offered me some replacements earlier on which are the part number above - these have a split grey shaft and are harder to turn. the ones they replace for you, made by ALPS, have black shafts. i do not see any other part number markings on these. The ALPS have 24 detents. I looked on the Soundwell site and the part number is not listed (however in the past I remember it being listed). Perhaps they pulled it because of problems?
>
> Brett
>
> On 27 Feb 2011, at 7:33 AM, a33e wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to replace old encoders with higher quality encoders instead of potentiometers?
> > I have no obsession to potentiometers and i actually like good encoders more. Especially those that I've used in Waldorf's.
> >
> > If you could suggest direct replacement part that does not require any other changes to circuit boards it would be helpful. =)
> >
> > (I have worked years in electronic industry and consider myself as professional with soldering iron.
> > So please don't give me those "don't-do-it-you-lose-our-guarantee-and-break-your-evolver" answers).
> >
> > .ja - http://soundcloud.com/tvr/
> >
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, plexus wrote:
> > >
> > > I was told by DSI that the new encoders are made by ALPS. so that is great news! i am actually liking the detent encoders!
> > >
> >
> >
>


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