Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

I recently acquired a PER for live performance, and after considering the various midi controllers available, I decided on a Novation SL 37 as it sends sysex as well cc's etc, plays well, and I like the x/y pad. My goal in this was to have a 3 octave polyevolver, a 4 voice MEK as it were. To be able to use the x/y pad as a 4 way "vector" style mixer for the Osc's. To start the sequencer and use the SL's tap tempo pad..IOW, a slightly boosted controller that's specific to the PER.

Using the Novation editor, I was able to easily program in all the available cc's that DSI made available. But straight away, (the second set of controls actually, the Osc fine tune parameter)I had to start using sysex strings. I haven't used these, or thought about them, for years. Some brushing up via google re hex, binary etc and a copy of the PER midi specs later, I thought..no problem.

Try as I might I cannot get the PER to respond to what I think the proper configuration is. The post by James from 200? was very informative, but his method still didn't work. (another aside: I am not positive, but as it appears that you can input 2 different variables in the SL sysex string itself now, IOW, the lsb and msb can both be "dv" I assume his problem in that post was fixed. But..the Novation editor doesn't let you do this, it has to be done directly on the SL. i say "assume" because while it shows up in the screen on the SL..I still get no movement in the function on the PER)

There is the inherent problem here... I probably should be asking Novation about this, after all it is THEIR controller. But we all know what happens..one company throws the problem to the other..Novation says (even though their manuals and explanations seem not-so-complete)you will have to ask DSI..and though Tracy has been really helpful at DSI, he doesn't know how the SL works. So, I hope this forum might help.

I have asked on the Novation forum, also on the DSI forum, and haven't received any replies..none. I am therefore to assume I am the only person currently using a Novation SL remote to control an Evolver/PER through sysex. I know from reading the back posts here that isn't the case, but as in a lot of forums, people drop out after a while or move on to other gear and don't bother with the forums they once used. 

There is the one sysex template here, but it only covers the cc's.

Anybody?

I can confirm that indeed the Novation sysex is not comprehensive enough to support the evolver. I was also possibly the original uploader of the novation cc template 
It was 5 or 6 years ago when I tried but I seem to remember that the granularity with which the msb and lsb that the novation could specify was not sufficient.
Who to blame? God knows but since Dave Smith invented midi I'll bet on novation.
I also remember being thankful when the evolver got cc's though! 

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "jp" <jpazdan@...> wrote:

>
> I recently acquired a PER for live performance, and after considering the various midi controllers available, I decided on a Novation SL 37 as it sends sysex as well cc's etc, plays well, and I like the x/y pad. My goal in this was to have a 3 octave polyevolver, a 4 voice MEK as it were. To be able to use the x/y pad as a 4 way "vector" style mixer for the Osc's. To start the sequencer and use the SL's tap tempo pad..IOW, a slightly boosted controller that's specific to the PER.
> 
> Using the Novation editor, I was able to easily program in all the available cc's that DSI made available. But straight away, (the second set of controls actually, the Osc fine tune parameter)I had to start using sysex strings. I haven't used these, or thought about them, for years. Some brushing up via google re hex, binary etc and a copy of the PER midi specs later, I thought..no problem.
> 
> Try as I might I cannot get the PER to respond to what I think the proper configuration is. The post by James from 200? was very informative, but his method still didn't work. (another aside: I am not positive, but as it appears that you can input 2 different variables in the SL sysex string itself now, IOW, the lsb and msb can both be "dv" I assume his problem in that post was fixed. But..the Novation editor doesn't let you do this, it has to be done directly on the SL. i say "assume" because while it shows up in the screen on the SL..I still get no movement in the function on the PER)
> 
> There is the inherent problem here... I probably should be asking Novation about this, after all it is THEIR controller. But we all know what happens..one company throws the problem to the other..Novation says (even though their manuals and explanations seem not-so-complete)you will have to ask DSI..and though Tracy has been really helpful at DSI, he doesn't know how the SL works. So, I hope this forum might help.
> 
> I have asked on the Novation forum, also on the DSI forum, and haven't received any replies..none. I am therefore to assume I am the only person currently using a Novation SL remote to control an Evolver/PER through sysex. I know from reading the back posts here that isn't the case, but as in a lot of forums, people drop out after a while or move on to other gear and don't bother with the forums they once used. 
> 
> There is the one sysex template here, but it only covers the cc's.
> 
> Anybody?
>

It's been a long time since I tried, but I remember not being able to send certain messages at all with the SL to a hardware synth. I suggest contacting Novation with a very specific message that you want to send. They should be able to tell you if it can be done or not.

Aaron

Sorry about near-to-zero-information-post but i wanted to say something supportive. :D
I've been there many times, wanting to do something that should be possible and it has been looked that i am the only one in the world who tries to do that.
I guess that the main problem is that when people get something challenging done and working well they don't always be motivated enough to share that information.. .  .

BTW. It might help to ask from other hardware editors groups, like Bitstream 3X or Peavey PC1600 groups.

How about monitoring MIDI traffic that some software editors send when you are editing those parameters that you would like to add to your implementation?

.433E - http://soundcloud.com/tvr



--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "justmullaya" <justmull@...> wrote:
>
> I can confirm that indeed the Novation sysex is not comprehensive enough to support the evolver. I was also possibly the original uploader of the novation cc template 
> It was 5 or 6 years ago when I tried but I seem to remember that the granularity with which the msb and lsb that the novation could specify was not sufficient

....cut...

> > There is the one sysex template here, but it only covers the cc's.
> > 
> > Anybody?
> >
>

thanks for the advice, it seems to confirm what I know, iow, outside of the cc's, it doesn't work very well. Even within the cc's, there's not enough of a value change to control what the evolver has, and unless the sysex are limited to under 7 value changes..it doesn't work at all. I bought the SL because it was the only midi controller with a keyboard that sent sysex..it does, but it's not fully implemented..really false advertising.

afa as novation support..3 tries, no response. thanks Novation! good to know you don't feel up to helping to explain how your products don't work.

so, it appears either a MEK to have direct control, or keep trying to figure out the puzzle of mixing cc's and sysex, albeit limited sysex, as anything with a lot of range is not available. 

One of the problems I see with a MEK though is that it won't control the combos..so i think a new question/topic.

I wish i had the resources and $$ for a PEK, but that isn't in the cards.

I will try a midiox look see afa the info dump, thanks for the tip.

I also am having problems when trying to use the PER/soundtower editor/SL 37 combo..very strange things going on in the combo bank libraries when choosing a combo, the PER's values jump like crazy..and though I can hear the values change on the rack, it doesn't translate in the onscreen ST editor. There's probably a midi loop happening somewhere, but I haven't figured that out. 

This is all a shame really, as i have the SL doing some good things, starting the sequencer, changing the tempo, controlling certain parameters..it's just that I think it could do a lot more..and with the PER's being relatively inexpensive on the used market now, it's too bad there aren't any keyboard controllers that really are all that useful. I imagine the original use of the PER was NOT like the DT prophet, iow, it wasn't really meant as a stand alone, rather as an extension to the PEK, but..I know there are people using it as a stand alone, and I love the way the damn thing sounds. 

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "a33e" <yurkie@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> Sorry about near-to-zero-information-post but i wanted to say something supportive. :D
> I've been there many times, wanting to do something that should be possible and it has been looked that i am the only one in the world who tries to do that.
> I guess that the main problem is that when people get something challenging done and working well they don't always be motivated enough to share that information.. .  .
> 
> BTW. It might help to ask from other hardware editors groups, like Bitstream 3X or Peavey PC1600 groups.
> 
> How about monitoring MIDI traffic that some software editors send when you are editing those parameters that you would like to add to your implementation?
> 
> .433E - http://soundcloud.com/tvr
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "justmullaya" <justmull@> wrote:
> >
> > I can confirm that indeed the Novation sysex is not comprehensive enough to support the evolver. I was also possibly the original uploader of the novation cc template 
> > It was 5 or 6 years ago when I tried but I seem to remember that the granularity with which the msb and lsb that the novation could specify was not sufficient
> 
> ....cut...
> 
> > > There is the one sysex template here, but it only covers the cc's.
> > > 
> > > Anybody?
> > >
> >
>