Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

ED, et. al.:

Hopefully I haven't stepped on anyones toes while I've been trying to be
helpful/informative. If my comments came across as arrogant or preachy, I
abjectly beg forgiveness as it was not my intent... :D

I think we may be ranging a bit far afield here, but I'm happy to
continue the discussion if the members think there is a benefit to doing
so. If people would prefer we keep the discussion to more fundamental
drumming, then let me know and I'll shut up! ;) Frankly, these are the
types of discussions that intrigue me so I'll add some fuel to this fire
here:

rdamon@... said:
> (Not that is matters but Yamaha does not include any literature
> with the kit that says "EULA", if you don't agree, then return
> the product.)

This is one of those grey areas since they *do* have a copyright on the
code inside the module. Whether or not they *have* to warn you to not
violate the agreement is debatable. Besides, they may have posted the
notice in some place you are unaware of...

<DIGRESS>
    \ufffdBut Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning
office for the last nine months.\ufffd

    \ufffdOh yes, well, as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them,
yesterday afternoon. You hadn\ufffdt exactly gone out of your way to call
attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or
anything.\ufffd

    \ufffdBut the plans were on display...\ufffd

    \ufffdOn display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.\ufffd

    \ufffdThat\ufffds the display department.\ufffd

    \ufffdWith a flashlight.\ufffd

    \ufffdAh, well, the lights had probably gone.\ufffd

    \ufffdSo had the stairs.\ufffd

    \ufffdBut look, you found the notice, didn\ufffdt you?\ufffd

    \ufffdYes,\ufffd said Arthur, \ufffdyes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a
locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the
door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.'\ufffd)
</DIGRESS>

> The only question is do you have the right to add to the code.
> In other words take the original code and don't change it but
> say add 50 lines of original code that you originate and write
> to it and reburn it and put it  back in your module. Thus you
> have not taken or copied anything at all.

However, you would probably run afoul of the "decompile/reverse engineer"
restriction of just about every EULA I've seen. In order to add your "50
lines of code" you would almost certainly have to decompile the object
code in the ROM back to human-readable "source" code before it could be
modified. You would have to be (or get the assistance of) a programmer
with in depth knowledge of the language used to create the source code to
assist you in creating the patch, then modify the original code to be
"aware" of the patch and know when to "jump" to it. A very non-trivial
task.

Now, if you do manage to do this yourself, in the privacy of your own
home, and do not share the results with anyone, you should be safe from
repercussions. Or, if you were to tie this into a research project for
educational purposes, you might be able to claim the safe harbor of "fair
use", but we're getting into some very murky waters, and you have to try
to figure out if the cost/risk/investment would be worth the benefit.

> Not much different than adding a second peizo to a drum pad, really.

Though not much different from a practical standpoint, it's MUCH
different from a *legal* standpoint, and thats what makes me steam about
software copyright law. The Software Industry has managed to get quite a
few things put into law that allows them ridiculous latitude and takes
away as many rights from the customer as it can. For example, look at
this law sometime:

http://archive.infoworld.com/ucita/

Here's just a few provisions from that:

UCITA would let a vendor:

* Disclaim liability for any damages incurred by software it knew to be
buggy.

* Prevent buyers from selling or giving away any computer software that
they no longer intend to use.

* Prohibit buyers from using software that came bundled with a PC on
other computers, even after erasing it from the original system.

* Notify users of a change in the terms of a license (such as fees for
online services) simply by posting an announcement on its Web site.

* Claim UCITA protection for music CDs, so buyers might not be able to
sell or give away a used CD or record it in MP3 format for personal use.

> I agree taking the code from a III and putting it in
> a II would be illegal.

Illegality probably isn't as big an issue as practicality. I'll bet it
would be very difficult. Much easier to buy the III and sell the II.

> What would be interesting is to approach So Tanaka again and
> try to determine, since they don't plan on providing an upgrade
> except through the complete replacement of the module, if a
> third party (Pintech) could take the module and upgrade the
> chip with different sounds, through a licensing  agreement?

By granting such exception, Yamaha would be creating a precedent for 3rd
parties to modify and/or upgrade their code. It would be a precedent that
could possibly be used against them if they decided to try and bar a 3rd
party from creating an add on or upgrade to their product that they felt
was bad for their business. I would very much doubt that you would get
such permission.

> Hmmmmmmmm.

Indeed... :)

> Another issue in regards to copyright/trademark/logo is the use
> of the term  "DTXpress" (as in Yahoogroups/DTXpress) , DTX (as in
> DTXpressions, or DTXchange). So Tanaka has brought this to the
> attention of Jim, that these logo's our owned by Yamaha and
> connect be used without their express permission.

Interestingly enough, the web site was created by Giles Hearns and he
mentioned to me that he had obtained permission to use the name. In fact,
he has a disclaimer on the web site front page that explicitly states the
site is not affiliated but the trademark and logo are use with
permission. I s'pose I should try and reach him to see how the permission
was obtained as , frankly, I don't know. I figure if Yamaha asks the site
name to change and or the domain to be turned over, I'll just have to do
it. :(

> This came back to me in a PM from Jim with the Sysex code.
> I have asked Jim to check on whether or not we need to
> make any changes or if we are ok.

Keep me in the loop on this. I'd like to know what the provisions are for
using the name or portions of it for user groups etc.

> This would also impact the use of the terms on clothing
> items as well. ;).

Heh! They can have my shirt when they pry it from my cold dead... you get
the picture.. :)

Vern

PS: Can you tell it's Friday at my office and not much is happening here? :)

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG