Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Dear group,

My name is Tal. I'm a DTXpress (original) for about a year now. I've 
been following the group since the day I bought my kit, and it has 
helped me more than once, but now I have some dilemmas about 
upgrading, and in a dire need of help. So this is my first post.

I'll start with an introduction. I'm a 25 years old software 
engineer. I have played drums for about 3 years now. The first two 
were on the very small and toy-ish Yamaha DD-55... It was nice for a 
while, but I got sick and tired after I realized that I'm not 
getting anywhere. I quit drumming.

One Saturday night, about a year ago, I went to a pub, and found the 
drummer of my favorite band sitting next to me… We talked for a 
while, and something inside me clicked… I got home, searched second-
hand selling boards on the net, and a few weeks later I was the 
proud owner of a second hand original DTXpress! I've been pounding 
it ever since. Sometimes I jam alone, and sometimes with friends (a 
guitar player, a bass player, and a keyboard player). We're writing 
a few songs, doing some covers, and planning to start performing in 
the near future. 

I never took a drumming lesson in my life.

Well, lately the crash cymbal seems a bit tired… It misses a trigger 
here and then. Besides that, I'm feeling that the kit requires some 
upgrading and I'll be very excited to add to it the ability to 
output two voices and chock-ability to each cymbal and a rim 
shot/click to the snare, without buying an entirely new kit.

I did some pocking around, especially on your group and came to the 
following conclusions: I can buy a TP65S and two PCY65S, connect 
them without too much trouble, and get the snare to output two 
voices (not three!), and the cymbals to output two voices AND chock-
ability. Please verify that I'm correct!

Unfortunately, I do not know a store that sells Yamaha stuff, but I 
do have one that sells Roland… I read in the archives that people 
successfully connected Roland pads and cymbals to Yamaha modules (I 
haven't found information specifically about the original DTXpress). 
The price is right, and they look quite good, but I decide to not 
take any chances and went to the store to check everything out in 
advance. They were nice enough to allow me to connect my module to 
everything I want and check it out. 
Here's what happened: 
1)	I connected a PD-8 (a snare pad that looks very much like a 
TP65) using a stereo cable to the snare input. I got the snare sound 
to work, but the rim didn't do anything.
2)	I connected a PD85 (a mesh snare pad that looks and feels 
very good) the same way. The snare playing was amazingly responsive 
and it felt very good. I did rolls like a pro and what not, but I 
could not play the rim..
3)	I connected a CY8 (a round cymbal that features two sounds 
and chock) to the crash and ride input using a stereo cable. If I 
hit the back side (the flatter side), the pad sound will trigger (it 
should have triggered the rim sound if I'm not mistaken). The chock 
worked If I hold the cymbal firmly, but no matter what I tried, I 
could not trigger the rim voice… It seemed that the rim voice was 
triggered (according to the trigger page in the module), but no 
sound was heard. Naturally, I did select a sound for the rim, but 
nothing came out.

I would very much like to buy any of those parts, since the store is 
close to me, the prices are reasonable, and the technology and 
construction seems very high-end, but firstly, I need them to work!
I tried tweaking every setting I could find in the module, but I 
could not do it. Help please! Note that I did not observe any 
problems with trigger sensitivity. Everything was just right, 
especially the PD85.

Assuming that I did something wrong and those pads and cymbals CAN 
be connected correctly, there's the other subject of mounting those 
pieces on the Yamaha rack. The Roland pads connect with a vertical 
pin while Yamaha with a horizontal. Did someone try to put the 
Yamaha pin vertically and put a Roland pad on it? It fits, but is it 
natural for playing? Is there another way? Or do I also need to buy 
a piece of Roland rack? The cymbals seem to be even more 
problematic. The thing that stabilize the cymbal and keeps it from 
turning will not come with the cymbal. The L-shaped bracket will not 
do here. How do other people do it?

If one of the subjects will prevent me from fully enjoying the 
Roland gear, I will buy the Yamaha but I'll have to order online and 
it will be costly. If the Roland doesn't work out, should I consider 
Pintechs over Yamaha? Will they provide the full functionality with 
my kit?



Hope I didn't bore you with the overly long message.. I do think I 
broke some kind of record… :-)

Thank you very much for your patience!

Tal

I have not tried it, but as far as I know, the Roland pads should work.

Did you try the editing the trigger settings to select a different pad
type (shift+trigger)?  Also, by pressing the voice button you should
be able to see which pad has been detected when you hit it, e.g. snare
or snrR1 for the rim.  You also need to make sure there is a voice set
up for the rim.

You don't say where you are, but in the USA you could buy the parts
you need (e.g. Yamaha pads) from Drumbalaya http://www.drumbalaya.com/
or in Europe from Thomman http://www.thomann.de/

You did well to last two years with a DD55 - I lasted a month before I
was looking at the DTXpress.

Keith.

Dear Keith,

Thank you for the swift response.

I'm glad to hear that the roland pads and cymbals should work. To 
your best knowledge, are those rolands stereo pads and not double 
piazzo? I was assuming that it's only a setting problem in my part.

Let's review:
1) I used a stereo cable.
2) I connected the cymbal to the crash input (and after that to the 
ride, the result was the same).
3) The trigger type was PCY crash/PCY ride. I wasn't thinking about 
trying anything else, since I knew the PCY65S should work on this 
setting, and if the roland cymbal works at all, it will be on this 
setting.
4) I tried turning on and off the RimToPad setting. I read in the 
manual what it does, but I didn't understand. Is it at all related 
to my situation?
5) I used kits that have rim voices on them. Pressing "voice" 
triggers the sound.
6) Hitting the front side of the cymbal "triggers" the rim, but does 
not play the sound, it stays on 0% triggering.
7) Hitting the back side triggers the pad sound correctly. I believe 
that the pad sound should be triggered by the front side, but I'm 
willing to overlook this if I can get the rest to function correctly.

I can return to the store again, but the only thing I can think of 
is to try different trigger types (MISC). If it doesn't work, I'm in 
a lose again. 

Does anyone have any more ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Tal

P.S.
I live in europe. 

P.P.S
I stayed longer with the DD55 because I liked the fact that it 
fitted into a small hand bag (or maybe I stayed longer because I'm a 
slower learner than you?).. Now I have a mighty big travel bag to 
store the DTXpress in it.. I'm also too lazy to dismantle it every 
time, so it usually stays at my friend's house where we jam, and I 
almost don't practice at home..


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith@...> wrote:
>
> I have not tried it, but as far as I know, the Roland pads should 
work.
> 
> Did you try the editing the trigger settings to select a different 
pad
> type (shift+trigger)?  Also, by pressing the voice button you 
should
> be able to see which pad has been detected when you hit it, e.g. 
snare
> or snrR1 for the rim.  You also need to make sure there is a voice 
set
> up for the rim.
> 
> You don't say where you are, but in the USA you could buy the parts
> you need (e.g. Yamaha pads) from Drumbalaya 
http://www.drumbalaya.com/
> or in Europe from Thomman http://www.thomann.de/
> 
> You did well to last two years with a DD55 - I lasted a month 
before I

> was looking at the DTXpress.
> 
> Keith.
>

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:41:25 -0000, tallavi wrote:
> My name is Tal. I'm a DTXpress (original) for about a year now. I've
> been following the group since the day I bought my kit, and it has
> helped me more than once, but now I have some dilemmas about
> upgrading, and in a dire need of help. So this is my first post.
...snip...
> I did some pocking around, especially on your group and came to the
> following conclusions: I can buy a TP65S and two PCY65S, connect
> them without too much trouble, and get the snare to output two
> voices (not three!), and the cymbals to output two voices AND chock-
> ability. Please verify that I'm correct!
...snip...
> Assuming that I did something wrong and those pads and cymbals CAN
> be connected correctly, there's the other subject of mounting those
> pieces on the Yamaha rack. The Roland pads connect with a vertical
> pin while Yamaha with a horizontal. Did someone try to put the
> Yamaha pin vertically and put a Roland pad on it? It fits, but is it
> natural for playing? Is there another way? Or do I also need to buy
> a piece of Roland rack? The cymbals seem to be even more
> problematic. The thing that stabilize the cymbal and keeps it from
> turning will not come with the cymbal. The L-shaped bracket will not
> do here. How do other people do it?
>
> If one of the subjects will prevent me from fully enjoying the
> Roland gear, I will buy the Yamaha but I'll have to order online and
> it will be costly. If the Roland doesn't work out, should I consider
> Pintechs over Yamaha? Will they provide the full functionality with
> my kit?

Check out www.drumbalaya.com

They are probably THE BEST online electronic percussion store. Ed Morin 
and his guys there are very good at answering "mix and match" type 
questions about which gear works with what and they sell all sorts of 
the hard to find bits and pieces you inevitably need. Give them a call
and they can probably help you come to a solution that will work well
for you at a reasonable price.

Their prices are also some of the best around and their service is
great. I have no affiliation with them -- I'm just a very satisfied
customer.

Matt Pobursky

Tal,

> I'm glad to hear that the roland pads and cymbals should work. To 
> your best knowledge, are those rolands stereo pads and not double 
> piazzo? I was assuming that it's only a setting problem in my part.

I am fairly sure they are single piezo.  A post at the Vdrum forum may
help:

http://www.vdrums.com/

Also, I recently lent my DTXpander box to my drum teacher who uses a
TD8 and it worked fine.  If his module wanted two piezos rather than a
piezo and rim switch it wouldn't have worked.

> 4) I tried turning on and off the RimToPad setting. I read in the 
> manual what it does, but I didn't understand. Is it at all related 
> to my situation?

Never used that.  Mine are set to "disable"

> 6) Hitting the front side of the cymbal "triggers" the rim, but does 
> not play the sound, it stays on 0% triggering.

It is strange it triggers but no sound and 0%.  It would do that if
there was a rim switch closure but no piezo signal.  I cannot remember
if Rolands have high or low piezo outputs, but the attenuator switch
on the back would be worth a try.  Also, possibly the gain & minimum
velocity.

If it were me, I would just by the Yamaha pads from Thomann - no
mounting problems, no interface problems and cheaper.  That is, unless
you are after a mesh pad.  I am planning to try a Pintech Concertcast
snare which is dual piezo, but then I have an interface I designed to
modify the signals and the equipment to look at signals to modify them
to suit the Yamaha if necessary.

Keith.

Dear all,

Another visit to the roland store, with the information I got from 
you, managed to get me better results.

The PD8 seem to work great if the attenuator switch is set to high.

The CY8 works, if the attenuator switch is set to high, and the 
trigger type is changed to MISC3 or PCY cup (what is 'PCY cup' 
anyway?), but it doesn't work well at all. It misses trigger here 
and there, and it's a bit unstable. Playing the same cymbal pad with 
a Roland TD-8 module they had in the store produced some sweet 
sounds.

No matter what I did, I could not make the PD85(mesh) to sound the 
rim. Maybe it's double piazzo?

Other than that, we also got the mounting problem. The store sells 
the cymbal mounting rod, but buying a cymbal and a rod is almost 
like buying two PCY65S..

From all the reasons above, I came to a conclusion that listening to 
your advice is the way to go, and that I should buy yamaha PCY65S. 
I'm a little afraid that I won't get them with the L-shaped holder 
bracket. I only have one now, and it's on my crash. I must have 
another to go with the ride. It drives me nuts sometimes.

But what about a mesh head? Pintech says they're 100% compatible. 
Can anyone confirm a good mesh pad, that is mountable on the yamaha 
rack, and can produce head and rim sounds with accuracy?

I wouldn't mind purchasing other cymbals too (round ones :-)), but I 
don't have the slightest clue to where to start the search..

Help?

Tal

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith@...> wrote:
>
> Tal,
> 
> > I'm glad to hear that the roland pads and cymbals should work. 
To 
> > your best knowledge, are those rolands stereo pads and not 
double 
> > piazzo? I was assuming that it's only a setting problem in my 
part.
> 
> I am fairly sure they are single piezo.  A post at the Vdrum forum 
may
> help:
> 
> http://www.vdrums.com/
> 
> Also, I recently lent my DTXpander box to my drum teacher who uses 
a
> TD8 and it worked fine.  If his module wanted two piezos rather 
than a
> piezo and rim switch it wouldn't have worked.
> 
> > 4) I tried turning on and off the RimToPad setting. I read in 
the 
> > manual what it does, but I didn't understand. Is it at all 
related 
> > to my situation?
> 
> Never used that.  Mine are set to "disable"
> 
> > 6) Hitting the front side of the cymbal "triggers" the rim, but 
does 
> > not play the sound, it stays on 0% triggering.
> 
> It is strange it triggers but no sound and 0%.  It would do that if
> there was a rim switch closure but no piezo signal.  I cannot 
remember
> if Rolands have high or low piezo outputs, but the attenuator 
switch
> on the back would be worth a try.  Also, possibly the gain & 
minimum
> velocity.
> 
> If it were me, I would just by the Yamaha pads from Thomann - no
> mounting problems, no interface problems and cheaper.  That is, 
unless
> you are after a mesh pad.  I am planning to try a Pintech 
Concertcast
> snare which is dual piezo, but then I have an interface I designed 
to
> modify the signals and the equipment to look at signals to modify 
them

> to suit the Yamaha if necessary.
> 
> Keith.
>

Tal asked:
But what about a mesh head? Pintech says they're 100% compatible.
Can anyone confirm a good mesh pad, that is mountable on the yamaha
rack, and can produce head and rim sounds with accuracy?
==> I use Pintech mesh heads on my dtxpress 1.  As long as you change
the dtx settings to the values Pintech recommends, it works fine.

I wouldn't say it mounts very well.  I had to hack that.  But with the right
hardware it should mount OK.  I'm not sure what that right hardware is
though.  I'd be interested to know what other folks are using.

I should mention that I used to use heavy sticks.  Those sticks did
cause the solder inside the Pintech to come apart twice.  So I stopped using
heavy sticks.

cheers,
Andy

Well, it's been over two months since I came to a conclusion that 
PCY65S is the way to go..

I received all the equipment yesterday :-) 
One TP65S and two PCY65S :-)

I listened to your advice and bought from thomann. They were very 
nice and kind. The package took a bit too long to arrive, but I 
guess that's not entirely their fault.

Anyway, I am satified with the chockability and VERY satisfied with 
the rim function on the TP, but I can't seem to get an handle on the 
rim function of the PCY..

Any tips for starters? When I had the PCY80, I used to play only 
the "rim" part (naturally, being a mono cymbal, I heard the pad 
sound). It was more comfortable that way. The upper "pad" part seems 
allot less responsive to me. Now, I can't accurately hit the correct 
spots. Sometimes I get a rim sound while hitting the pad and 
sometimes I get a pad sound while hitting the rim.. For the time 
being, I disabled the rim function by putting the same sound on both 
parts, since it really ruins my play.. The problem happens on both 
PCY's, the crash and the ride. Any guidance will be appreciated.

Besided that, I'm having mounting problems. Finally I have the much 
awaited second L-shape holder (and even have a reserve one), but I'm 
having dificulties mounting the cymbal on the little black stopper
(not on the L shape holder!).

When looking at the manual, I see that the correct mounting order is:
L-shape holder, black stopper, felt, cymbal, felt, nut. 
But the black stopper will not fit into the new PCY65S! The hole in 
the cymbal is too small! It fits nicely into the PCY80, and holds 
the cymbal in place, while giving it freedom to go up and down in 
the same time. If I force the stopper into the PCY65S (very hard to 
achieve and requires the use of a pliers and a screw driver), the 
PCY is held firmly in place, and cannot go up and down at all..

I was under the impression that mounting will be the same with the 
new cymbal! Was I wrong?

If you are not sure to which parts I reffering too, I can photograph 
them and post them here. I could also use some photographs of 
mounting explanations of the PCY65S.. 

Thank you very very much in advance!!

Tal



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "tallavi" <tallavi@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
> 
> Another visit to the roland store, with the information I got from 
> you, managed to get me better results.
> 
> The PD8 seem to work great if the attenuator switch is set to high.
> 
> The CY8 works, if the attenuator switch is set to high, and the 
> trigger type is changed to MISC3 or PCY cup (what is 'PCY cup' 
> anyway?), but it doesn't work well at all. It misses trigger here 
> and there, and it's a bit unstable. Playing the same cymbal pad 
with 
> a Roland TD-8 module they had in the store produced some sweet 
> sounds.
> 
> No matter what I did, I could not make the PD85(mesh) to sound the 
> rim. Maybe it's double piazzo?
> 
> Other than that, we also got the mounting problem. The store sells 
> the cymbal mounting rod, but buying a cymbal and a rod is almost 
> like buying two PCY65S..
> 
> From all the reasons above, I came to a conclusion that listening 
to 
> your advice is the way to go, and that I should buy yamaha PCY65S. 
> I'm a little afraid that I won't get them with the L-shaped holder 
> bracket. I only have one now, and it's on my crash. I must have 
> another to go with the ride. It drives me nuts sometimes.
> 
> But what about a mesh head? Pintech says they're 100% compatible. 
> Can anyone confirm a good mesh pad, that is mountable on the 
yamaha 
> rack, and can produce head and rim sounds with accuracy?
> 
> I wouldn't mind purchasing other cymbals too (round ones :-)), but 
I 
> don't have the slightest clue to where to start the search..
> 
> Help?
> 
> Tal
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith@> wrote:
> >
> > Tal,
> > 
> > > I'm glad to hear that the roland pads and cymbals should work. 
> To 
> > > your best knowledge, are those rolands stereo pads and not 
> double 
> > > piazzo? I was assuming that it's only a setting problem in my 
> part.
> > 
> > I am fairly sure they are single piezo.  A post at the Vdrum 
forum 
> may
> > help:
> > 
> > http://www.vdrums.com/
> > 
> > Also, I recently lent my DTXpander box to my drum teacher who 
uses 
> a
> > TD8 and it worked fine.  If his module wanted two piezos rather 
> than a
> > piezo and rim switch it wouldn't have worked.
> > 
> > > 4) I tried turning on and off the RimToPad setting. I read in 
> the 
> > > manual what it does, but I didn't understand. Is it at all 
> related 
> > > to my situation?
> > 
> > Never used that.  Mine are set to "disable"
> > 
> > > 6) Hitting the front side of the cymbal "triggers" the rim, 
but 
> does 
> > > not play the sound, it stays on 0% triggering.
> > 
> > It is strange it triggers but no sound and 0%.  It would do that 
if
> > there was a rim switch closure but no piezo signal.  I cannot 
> remember
> > if Rolands have high or low piezo outputs, but the attenuator 
> switch
> > on the back would be worth a try.  Also, possibly the gain & 
> minimum
> > velocity.
> > 
> > If it were me, I would just by the Yamaha pads from Thomann - no
> > mounting problems, no interface problems and cheaper.  That is, 
> unless
> > you are after a mesh pad.  I am planning to try a Pintech 
> Concertcast
> > snare which is dual piezo, but then I have an interface I 
designed 
> to
> > modify the signals and the equipment to look at signals to 
modify 

> them
> > to suit the Yamaha if necessary.
> > 
> > Keith.
> >
>