Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

I'm at that point where now I have more triggering devices than I 
have inputs. The way I look at it, I have three choices:
1) Purchase an additional DTX module and create a completely 
compatible system.
2) Purchase another manufacturer's module giving me additional sounds 
to work with.
3) Purchase some sort of MIDI device like the KITI or the PM-16.
Before I make any decision, I need to understand more about these 
MIDI devices. It was my understanding that they do not house any 
sounds, but merely transfer them (or store them) so that they can be 
transmitted from one device to another  i.e. computer to module. Is 
this correct? In other words, if I added a PM-16 alone, for example, 
would I be able to trigger four or more additional pads? Where would 
the voices be generated? From the PM-16 or from the DTX?
Any assistance to help me further understand MIDI and the applicable 
devices is appreciated.
Thanks,
Stephen

Hi Stephen,

I knew we'd get you in the end, despite the PM-16 and midiKITI blues 
that passed over the board for about a month. But the troubles were 
due largely to a bug in the DTXII that prevented it from working 
smoothly with an external midi device--nothing a big fat reset 
couldn't cure, even on brand new units. That said, the cheapest 
options are obviously the two discontinuted interfaces that you know 
about. There's also Roland's current TMC-6, another midi interface, 
which would probably cost you $100 to $150 more, though it has a few 
more tricks up its sleeve than the older ones, like stereo inputs. 
The drawback is that it has only 6 inputs altogether, a fact that 
makes even the Roland crowd a little irritated (the PM-16 has 16 
mono inputs and the midikiti 9). Adding another module is definitely 
a viable option, especially since the DTXI can be had for under $200 
these days (just ask Claudio). But you'd also need a mixer to run 
the two together (I don't recall whether you already have one).

The interfaces, as opposed to the modules, don't have any sounds of 
their own. They're completely dependent on modules, drum machines, 
etc. to generate their voices, which they access via midi note 
numbers. A note number is assigned to a voice on the module and, one 
way or another, stored on the interface so that when a pad connected 
to one of the interface's inputs is hit, the particular midi note 
number chosen on the interface generates the voice asscociated with 
it in the module via a midi cable. The voices from the pads 
connected to the interface get processed through the module just 
like the voices generated by the pads connected to the module. 

The advantage of an interface w/o sounds of its own is basically its 
simplicity and relative inexpensiveness. An additional module, 
unless it is the same model as the first, would increase your range 
of sound, though if one of them is from an older generation, it may 
have limitations in its parameters that decrease its appeal. I've 
heard of people untegrating TD-5s or TD-7s and Alesis DM4s, however, 
as second modules very successfully. It's a matter of personal need 
and taste.

As Steve recently seems to have discovered, one of the drawbacks to 
a second unit is the possibility of crosstalk between pads connected 
to different devices. Devices like the midikiti and dtx can only 
isolate pads from each other (rejection, specific rejection) that 
are connected locally. There are physical and electronic ways to 
mitigate the problem, but they are not as surefire and easy as 
simply adjusting parameters in a single module. Grouping mutually 
susceptible pads on a device is always a good idea. You can also 
choose triggers for the auxiliary device that don't tend to get 
crosstalk (FSRs, like tubular pads); whether they cause it will be a 
matter of where they are on the rack and how they get hit. 

Yesterday Jade complained of crosstalk between the kiti and dtxII. 
But after an hour or so of me spinning troubleshooting theories to 
counteract it, Jade discovered that the cause of the voice 
interference was something else entirely (brilliantly, I might add). 
I don't think Jade has had any crosstalk problems between devices. 
So far no word about it from UNH.

Another possible, unavoidable drawback is that changing kits on the 
dtx will not automatically change the voices that the external 
device playing through it. You'd need to devote some of your 
resources to program changes for that. One way around it is to group 
pads on the external device that you tend to use from kit to kit. I, 
for example, have splashes, chinas, and various percussion effects 
coming from the kiti that I tend to retain. The external devices 
have multiple kit setups like the dtx, but they don't change from 
one to another just because you switch on the dtx.

Sorry for being long-winded.

Ed


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700 <brown8700@a...>" 
<brown8700@a...> wrote:
> I'm at that point where now I have more triggering devices than I 
> have inputs. The way I look at it, I have three choices:
> 1) Purchase an additional DTX module and create a completely 
> compatible system.
> 2) Purchase another manufacturer's module giving me additional 
sounds 
> to work with.
> 3) Purchase some sort of MIDI device like the KITI or the PM-16.
> Before I make any decision, I need to understand more about these 
> MIDI devices. It was my understanding that they do not house any 
> sounds, but merely transfer them (or store them) so that they can 
be 
> transmitted from one device to another  i.e. computer to module. 
Is 
> this correct? In other words, if I added a PM-16 alone, for 
example, 
> would I be able to trigger four or more additional pads? Where 
would 
> the voices be generated? From the PM-16 or from the DTX?
> Any assistance to help me further understand MIDI and the 
applicable 

> devices is appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Stephen

"I don't think Jade has had any crosstalk problems between devices. 
So far no word about it from UNH."

Sometimes if I hit my toms hard enough I'll get a slight faint crash 
sound from a cymbal attached to the rack with my toms on it.  The 
sound is only heard through headphones since its so quiet.  This is 
something I did not notice before I reset my module but its very 
fixable.  Also, I'm not sure if its just the cymbal I have connected 
to my pm16 or the one connected to my module.  That would be 
something interesting to find out though.  I also noticed when I 
just place my sticks above my toms, to set them down, and I hit the 
l-rods I'll get a slight cymbal sound too...weird.  Has anyone else 
noticed how sensitive the pads get once your in the voice menu?  The 
pads seem to be more prone to crosstalk and double triggers while in 
the voice menu.




--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
<liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> I knew we'd get you in the end, despite the PM-16 and midiKITI 
blues 
> that passed over the board for about a month. But the troubles 
were 
> due largely to a bug in the DTXII that prevented it from working 
> smoothly with an external midi device--nothing a big fat reset 
> couldn't cure, even on brand new units. That said, the cheapest 
> options are obviously the two discontinuted interfaces that you 
know 
> about. There's also Roland's current TMC-6, another midi 
interface, 
> which would probably cost you $100 to $150 more, though it has a 
few 
> more tricks up its sleeve than the older ones, like stereo inputs. 
> The drawback is that it has only 6 inputs altogether, a fact that 
> makes even the Roland crowd a little irritated (the PM-16 has 16 
> mono inputs and the midikiti 9). Adding another module is 
definitely 
> a viable option, especially since the DTXI can be had for under 
$200 
> these days (just ask Claudio). But you'd also need a mixer to run 
> the two together (I don't recall whether you already have one).
> 
> The interfaces, as opposed to the modules, don't have any sounds 
of 
> their own. They're completely dependent on modules, drum machines, 
> etc. to generate their voices, which they access via midi note 
> numbers. A note number is assigned to a voice on the module and, 
one 
> way or another, stored on the interface so that when a pad 
connected 
> to one of the interface's inputs is hit, the particular midi note 
> number chosen on the interface generates the voice asscociated 
with 
> it in the module via a midi cable. The voices from the pads 
> connected to the interface get processed through the module just 
> like the voices generated by the pads connected to the module. 
> 
> The advantage of an interface w/o sounds of its own is basically 
its 
> simplicity and relative inexpensiveness. An additional module, 
> unless it is the same model as the first, would increase your 
range 
> of sound, though if one of them is from an older generation, it 
may 
> have limitations in its parameters that decrease its appeal. I've 
> heard of people untegrating TD-5s or TD-7s and Alesis DM4s, 
however, 
> as second modules very successfully. It's a matter of personal 
need 
> and taste.
> 
> As Steve recently seems to have discovered, one of the drawbacks 
to 
> a second unit is the possibility of crosstalk between pads 
connected 
> to different devices. Devices like the midikiti and dtx can only 
> isolate pads from each other (rejection, specific rejection) that 
> are connected locally. There are physical and electronic ways to 
> mitigate the problem, but they are not as surefire and easy as 
> simply adjusting parameters in a single module. Grouping mutually 
> susceptible pads on a device is always a good idea. You can also 
> choose triggers for the auxiliary device that don't tend to get 
> crosstalk (FSRs, like tubular pads); whether they cause it will be 
a 
> matter of where they are on the rack and how they get hit. 
> 
> Yesterday Jade complained of crosstalk between the kiti and dtxII. 
> But after an hour or so of me spinning troubleshooting theories to 
> counteract it, Jade discovered that the cause of the voice 
> interference was something else entirely (brilliantly, I might 
add). 
> I don't think Jade has had any crosstalk problems between devices. 
> So far no word about it from UNH.
> 
> Another possible, unavoidable drawback is that changing kits on 
the 
> dtx will not automatically change the voices that the external 
> device playing through it. You'd need to devote some of your 
> resources to program changes for that. One way around it is to 
group 
> pads on the external device that you tend to use from kit to kit. 
I, 
> for example, have splashes, chinas, and various percussion effects 
> coming from the kiti that I tend to retain. The external devices 
> have multiple kit setups like the dtx, but they don't change from 
> one to another just because you switch on the dtx.
> 
> Sorry for being long-winded.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700 <brown8700@a...>" 
> <brown8700@a...> wrote:
> > I'm at that point where now I have more triggering devices than 
I 
> > have inputs. The way I look at it, I have three choices:
> > 1) Purchase an additional DTX module and create a completely 
> > compatible system.
> > 2) Purchase another manufacturer's module giving me additional 
> sounds 
> > to work with.
> > 3) Purchase some sort of MIDI device like the KITI or the PM-16.
> > Before I make any decision, I need to understand more about 
these 
> > MIDI devices. It was my understanding that they do not house any 
> > sounds, but merely transfer them (or store them) so that they 
can 

> be 
> > transmitted from one device to another  i.e. computer to module. 
> Is 
> > this correct? In other words, if I added a PM-16 alone, for 
> example, 
> > would I be able to trigger four or more additional pads? Where 
> would 
> > the voices be generated? From the PM-16 or from the DTX?
> > Any assistance to help me further understand MIDI and the 
> applicable 
> > devices is appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Stephen

UNH
When you hit a pad that is connected to the PM-16...if
you have the DTX module in "Voice" mode-the DTX module
should display the pad that is responding to the
cymbal(if it is plugged into the PM)  When I was
having what I thought might have been crosstalk w/the
Kiti, I noticed if I hit the cymbal(plugged into the
Kiti) when I was in voice mode, the DTX module would
display the pad that was vibrating(although it didn't
make any noise-it was vibration).  So maybe this will
help you find one of the pads that is yapping away. 
Hope this helps.
Incidently, my problem was additional voices that were
accidently layered in on the Kiti
settings(cross-stick-snare+bass drum).  Today I'm
gonna see if I can find those 2 notes and change them
to cymbal sounds, so I can layer my
cymbal....LORD...help me!
Jade
--- underneathheaven <realvast@...> wrote:
> "I don't think Jade has had any crosstalk problems
> between devices. 
> So far no word about it from UNH."
> 
> Sometimes if I hit my toms hard enough I'll get a
> slight faint crash 
> sound from a cymbal attached to the rack with my
> toms on it.  The 
> sound is only heard through headphones since its so
> quiet.  This is 
> something I did not notice before I reset my module
> but its very 
> fixable.  Also, I'm not sure if its just the cymbal
> I have connected 
> to my pm16 or the one connected to my module.  That
> would be 
> something interesting to find out though.  I also
> noticed when I 
> just place my sticks above my toms, to set them
> down, and I hit the 
> l-rods I'll get a slight cymbal sound too...weird. 
> Has anyone else 
> noticed how sensitive the pads get once your in the
> voice menu?  The 
> pads seem to be more prone to crosstalk and double
> triggers while in 
> the voice menu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
> <liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Stephen,
> > 
> > I knew we'd get you in the end, despite the PM-16
> and midiKITI 
> blues 
> > that passed over the board for about a month. But
> the troubles 
> were 
> > due largely to a bug in the DTXII that prevented
> it from working 
> > smoothly with an external midi device--nothing a
> big fat reset 
> > couldn't cure, even on brand new units. That said,
> the cheapest 
> > options are obviously the two discontinuted
> interfaces that you 
> know 
> > about. There's also Roland's current TMC-6,
> another midi 
> interface, 
> > which would probably cost you $100 to $150 more,
> though it has a 
> few 
> > more tricks up its sleeve than the older ones,
> like stereo inputs. 
> > The drawback is that it has only 6 inputs
> altogether, a fact that 
> > makes even the Roland crowd a little irritated
> (the PM-16 has 16 
> > mono inputs and the midikiti 9). Adding another
> module is 
> definitely 
> > a viable option, especially since the DTXI can be
> had for under 
> $200 
> > these days (just ask Claudio). But you'd also need
> a mixer to run 
> > the two together (I don't recall whether you
> already have one).
> > 
> > The interfaces, as opposed to the modules, don't
> have any sounds 
> of 
> > their own. They're completely dependent on
> modules, drum machines, 
> > etc. to generate their voices, which they access
> via midi note 
> > numbers. A note number is assigned to a voice on
> the module and, 
> one 
> > way or another, stored on the interface so that
> when a pad 
> connected 
> > to one of the interface's inputs is hit, the
> particular midi note 
> > number chosen on the interface generates the voice
> asscociated 
> with 
> > it in the module via a midi cable. The voices from
> the pads 
> > connected to the interface get processed through
> the module just 
> > like the voices generated by the pads connected to
> the module. 
> > 
> > The advantage of an interface w/o sounds of its
> own is basically 
> its 
> > simplicity and relative inexpensiveness. An
> additional module, 
> > unless it is the same model as the first, would
> increase your 
> range 
> > of sound, though if one of them is from an older
> generation, it 
> may 
> > have limitations in its parameters that decrease
> its appeal. I've 
> > heard of people untegrating TD-5s or TD-7s and
> Alesis DM4s, 
> however, 
> > as second modules very successfully. It's a matter
> of personal 
> need 
> > and taste.
> > 
> > As Steve recently seems to have discovered, one of
> the drawbacks 
> to 
> > a second unit is the possibility of crosstalk
> between pads 
> connected 
> > to different devices. Devices like the midikiti
> and dtx can only 
> > isolate pads from each other (rejection, specific
> rejection) that 
> > are connected locally. There are physical and
> electronic ways to 
> > mitigate the problem, but they are not as surefire
> and easy as 
> > simply adjusting parameters in a single module.
> Grouping mutually 
> > susceptible pads on a device is always a good
> idea. You can also 
> > choose triggers for the auxiliary device that
> don't tend to get 
> > crosstalk (FSRs, like tubular pads); whether they
> cause it will be 
> a 
> > matter of where they are on the rack and how they
> get hit. 
> > 
> > Yesterday Jade complained of crosstalk between the
> kiti and dtxII. 
> > But after an hour or so of me spinning
> troubleshooting theories to 
> > counteract it, Jade discovered that the cause of
> the voice 
> > interference was something else entirely
> (brilliantly, I might 
> add). 
> > I don't think Jade has had any crosstalk problems
> between devices. 
> > So far no word about it from UNH.
> > 
> > Another possible, unavoidable drawback is that
> changing kits on 
> the 
> > dtx will not automatically change the voices that
> the external 
> > device playing through it. You'd need to devote
> some of your 
> > resources to program changes for that. One way
> around it is to 
> group 
> > pads on the external device that you tend to use
> from kit to kit. 
> I, 
> > for example, have splashes, chinas, and various
> percussion effects 
> > coming from the kiti that I tend to retain. The
> external devices 
> > have multiple kit setups like the dtx, but they
> don't change from 
> > one to another just because you switch on the dtx.
> > 
> > Sorry for being long-winded.
> > 
> > Ed
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700
> <brown8700@a...>" 
> > <brown8700@a...> wrote:
> > > I'm at that point where now I have more
> triggering devices than 
> I 
> > > have inputs. The way I look at it, I have three
> choices:
> > > 1) Purchase an additional DTX module and create
> a completely 
> > > compatible system.
> > > 2) Purchase another manufacturer's module giving
> me additional 
> > sounds 
> > > to work with.
> > > 3) Purchase some sort of MIDI device like the
> KITI or the PM-16.
> 
=== message truncated ===


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