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DTXpress II upgrade plan

DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by isidorelechat

Hi,

I have been out of the drums world for ten years (I am 31 now) and 
after trying a td-6 and td-8 recently, I have decided to buy a kit as 
the sounds and feel of e-drums nowdays are far better than the 
previous ones I have tried. After checking the other available 
systems, I became interested in the dtxpress II.

I am planning to go for the following setup and would like first to 
get confirmation from you that the extensions I want to add will fit 
within the available inputs:

Snare: I would add a Roland PD-80R
Hi-Hat pad: I would use the orginal dtxpress 3 zones snare pad
4th tom: I woud use the original hi-hat pad
Extra cymbal: I would probably buy another yamaha one

Thanks for your help

RE: [DTXpress] DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by rdamon@mckinney-usa.com

I don't have a PD-80R, so I can't answer that one.

The TP65S can physically be used for the hi-hat (I am using a PCY65S for the
hihat), but you will not be able to set it up for three zones, as zone 8
(the hihat pad zone) is only a stereo zone, so you can only set it up for
pad and one rim sound. The hihat pad that comes with the kit TP65 can be
used for a 4th tom. The issue to consider is the total number of zones that
are available on the basic DTXpressII module.

zone 1 - kick  
zone 2 - snare
zone 3 - tom1 
zone 4 - tom2 
zone 5 - tom3
zone 6 - ride
zone 7 - crash
zone 8 - hihat 
zones9/10 - extra (2 trigger, not stereo)

So in your case the easiest way is to move the kick to zone 9, plug the 4th
tom into the input jack on the kick pad (zone 10). Put the extra cymbal on
zone 2 ( so that you get pad/rim/choking) and see if the PD80r will work on
zone 1. You will have to adjust the trigger types and voice assignments, but
it should work. (Assuming the PD80r will work on zone 1.)

p.s. Only zones 2, 6, 7 are three zone inputs. I have both PCY65S and PCY80S
and the PCY65s seem to be more stable than the PCY80s.

Hope this helps, good luck.

OldGuyDrummer



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	isidorelechat [SMTP:renaudmarin@...]
> Sent:	Thursday, May 01, 2003 9:43 AM
> To:	DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	[DTXpress] DTXpress II upgrade plan
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have been out of the drums world for ten years (I am 31 now) and 
> after trying a td-6 and td-8 recently, I have decided to buy a kit as 
> the sounds and feel of e-drums nowdays are far better than the 
> previous ones I have tried. After checking the other available 
> systems, I became interested in the dtxpress II.
> 
> I am planning to go for the following setup and would like first to 
> get confirmation from you that the extensions I want to add will fit 
> within the available inputs:
> 
> Snare: I would add a Roland PD-80R
> Hi-Hat pad: I would use the orginal dtxpress 3 zones snare pad
> 4th tom: I woud use the original hi-hat pad
> Extra cymbal: I would probably buy another yamaha one
> 
> Thanks for your help
> 
> 
> 
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Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by moosetication

--- "isidorelechat" wrote:
> I have been out of the drums world for ten years ...

I am much in the same position as you, except (sigh) 14 years closer 
to the tomb. I too have gone for the DTXpressII and upgrading it as 
far as it will go.

> Snare: I would add a Roland PD-80R

Not the only choice, of course. Pintech do a well-regarded dual-zone 
mesh snare.

> Hi-Hat pad: I would use the orginal dtxpress 3 zones snare pad

You'll only get one of the two rim triggers... and the rim triggers 
are either side of the midline so arranging the pad so the working 
rim trigger's usable might be tricky. I put a TP-80S on the hat and 
am still using the TP-65S snare.

> 4th tom: I woud use the original hi-hat pad

Done that, on 9. Just remember to set up the trigger type, and the 
default voice is a cowbell on every kit so you'll have to change that.

> Extra cymbal: I would probably buy another yamaha one

I was planning to get another stereo (Yamaha or Pintech), move the 
single zone PCY65 to 10 and the new stereo on 6 or 7 to give me two 
stereos and a mono. But ... there are many unused rim trigger inputs 
on the DTXpressII brain, so my latest cunning plan is to use three 
stereos... two on 6/7, one with the peizo through 10 and the rim 
on "kickR" by splitting it into input 1. See what I mean? I've rigged 
up a test and it seems to work. And it would be interesting to see if 
there are any triggers on the market that are just FSRs, as these 
could work happily split into the other rim inputs for bells and so 
on.

My final experiment is with the Yamaha DD-55 toy (the one with seven 
little pads in a silver box, that you see all over eBay). I got one 
of these when I was trying to figure out if my desire to get back 
into drumming was just advanced senile dementia or real. I'm planning 
to see if it would be possible to dismantle this and mount it on the 
kit, and MIDI it into the DTXpressII brain. I know it will work 
electrically.

This is more *much* fun than Meccano...

Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by liberatusvirus

So far as sheer number of inputs goes, your plan would work. 
However, be forewarned that whatever you subsitute for the Yamaha 
snare won't get the three advertised voices, which may not be a 
concern for you. But what you might not realize is that the Roland 
PD-80R mesh pad, nor any other mesh pad for that matter, will even 
provide two voices through the standard DTXpress II's snare input 
(#2). The reason is that the rim triggers that provide the multiple 
voices on the gum rubber TP65S smare are FSRs, whereas the rim of 
the Roland, or any other mesh pad, is a piezo. Most people who swap 
the Yamaha snare for a dual-zone mesh snare plug the body of the 
drum into #2 (technically called a stereo, not dual-zone, input), 
thereby losing the input's rim switch capability, and the separate 
rim sensor into either mono #9 or mono #10, which are accessed via 
the same single TRS jack with the appropriate insert cable. If you 
did so, you'd have to give up your fourth tom or your third cymbal, 
since one of your extra mono inputs would be taken by the snare's 
rim.

Let's assume that this sacrifice is worthwhile for you. The next 
issue is the PD-80R itself. For one thing, I've heard that its rim 
does not trigger with much authority through Yamaha electronics, 
though I can't verify it myself. Another consideration is that it is 
only 8" in diameter. Many people who upgrade their snares do so, at 
least in part, to get a bigger target to hit. More on that point in 
a minute. My biggest problem with the PD-80R is that, like all of 
Roland's equipment, it is too expensive for what it does. To my 
mind, you owe it to yourself to check out the Pintech ConcertCast 
dual-zone mesh pad, which measures two more inches in diameter than 
the PD-80R and provides the same triggering technology. I, and many 
others, can assure you that it works perfectly well with the Yamaha 
module, as long as you split the body and rim as I explained above. 
It would also save you approximately $150. Another alternative from 
Pintech is the AX14S, which, at 14", would save you $70 or so over 
the smaller Roland. Bear in mind, however, that for either of these 
alternatives, you might want to consider using a separate snare 
stand, rather than mounting directly on the rack. Not only would you 
have more control over position, but also less problem with 
crosstalk.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "isidorelechat" <renaudmarin@h...> 
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have been out of the drums world for ten years (I am 31 now) and 
> after trying a td-6 and td-8 recently, I have decided to buy a kit 
as 
> the sounds and feel of e-drums nowdays are far better than the 
> previous ones I have tried. After checking the other available 
> systems, I became interested in the dtxpress II.
> 
> I am planning to go for the following setup and would like first 
to 
> get confirmation from you that the extensions I want to add will 
fit 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> within the available inputs:
> 
> Snare: I would add a Roland PD-80R
> Hi-Hat pad: I would use the orginal dtxpress 3 zones snare pad
> 4th tom: I woud use the original hi-hat pad
> Extra cymbal: I would probably buy another yamaha one
> 
> Thanks for your help

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by liberatusvirus

Hey Stewart,

I'd love to be 46 again (thankfully, I can still add).

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" 
<moosetication@y...> wrote:
> --- "isidorelechat" wrote:
> > I have been out of the drums world for ten years ...
> 
> I am much in the same position as you, except (sigh) 14 years 
closer 
> to the tomb. I too have gone for the DTXpressII and upgrading it 
as 
> far as it will go.
> 
> > Snare: I would add a Roland PD-80R
> 
> Not the only choice, of course. Pintech do a well-regarded dual-
zone 
> mesh snare.
> 
> > Hi-Hat pad: I would use the orginal dtxpress 3 zones snare pad
> 
> You'll only get one of the two rim triggers... and the rim 
triggers 
> are either side of the midline so arranging the pad so the working 
> rim trigger's usable might be tricky. I put a TP-80S on the hat 
and 
> am still using the TP-65S snare.
> 
> > 4th tom: I woud use the original hi-hat pad
> 
> Done that, on 9. Just remember to set up the trigger type, and the 
> default voice is a cowbell on every kit so you'll have to change 
that.
> 
> > Extra cymbal: I would probably buy another yamaha one
> 
> I was planning to get another stereo (Yamaha or Pintech), move the 
> single zone PCY65 to 10 and the new stereo on 6 or 7 to give me 
two 
> stereos and a mono. But ... there are many unused rim trigger 
inputs 
> on the DTXpressII brain, so my latest cunning plan is to use three 
> stereos... two on 6/7, one with the peizo through 10 and the rim 
> on "kickR" by splitting it into input 1. See what I mean? I've 
rigged 
> up a test and it seems to work. And it would be interesting to see 
if 
> there are any triggers on the market that are just FSRs, as these 
> could work happily split into the other rim inputs for bells and 
so 
> on.
> 
> My final experiment is with the Yamaha DD-55 toy (the one with 
seven 
> little pads in a silver box, that you see all over eBay). I got 
one 
> of these when I was trying to figure out if my desire to get back 
> into drumming was just advanced senile dementia or real. I'm 
planning 
> to see if it would be possible to dismantle this and mount it on 
the 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> kit, and MIDI it into the DTXpressII brain. I know it will work 
> electrically.
> 
> This is more *much* fun than Meccano...
> 
> Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by moosetication

--- I wrote:
> Done that, on 9 ... the 
> default voice is a cowbell on every kit...

I lied, of course, it's a ride. The kick rim trigger is a cowbell.

Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by liberatusvirus

Stewart,

You've accomplished splitting a rim switch from a gum rubber stereo 
pad and sending it to the rim input of another pad? Please expain. I 
don't get it.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" 
<moosetication@y...> wrote:
> --- "isidorelechat" wrote:
> > I have been out of the drums world for ten years ...
> 
> I am much in the same position as you, except (sigh) 14 years 
closer 
> to the tomb. I too have gone for the DTXpressII and upgrading it 
as 
> far as it will go.
> 
> > Snare: I would add a Roland PD-80R
> 
> Not the only choice, of course. Pintech do a well-regarded dual-
zone 
> mesh snare.
> 
> > Hi-Hat pad: I would use the orginal dtxpress 3 zones snare pad
> 
> You'll only get one of the two rim triggers... and the rim 
triggers 
> are either side of the midline so arranging the pad so the working 
> rim trigger's usable might be tricky. I put a TP-80S on the hat 
and 
> am still using the TP-65S snare.
> 
> > 4th tom: I woud use the original hi-hat pad
> 
> Done that, on 9. Just remember to set up the trigger type, and the 
> default voice is a cowbell on every kit so you'll have to change 
that.
> 
> > Extra cymbal: I would probably buy another yamaha one
> 
> I was planning to get another stereo (Yamaha or Pintech), move the 
> single zone PCY65 to 10 and the new stereo on 6 or 7 to give me 
two 
> stereos and a mono. But ... there are many unused rim trigger 
inputs 
> on the DTXpressII brain, so my latest cunning plan is to use three 
> stereos... two on 6/7, one with the peizo through 10 and the rim 
> on "kickR" by splitting it into input 1. See what I mean? I've 
rigged 
> up a test and it seems to work. And it would be interesting to see 
if 
> there are any triggers on the market that are just FSRs, as these 
> could work happily split into the other rim inputs for bells and 
so 
> on.
> 
> My final experiment is with the Yamaha DD-55 toy (the one with 
seven 
> little pads in a silver box, that you see all over eBay). I got 
one 
> of these when I was trying to figure out if my desire to get back 
> into drumming was just advanced senile dementia or real. I'm 
planning 
> to see if it would be possible to dismantle this and mount it on 
the 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> kit, and MIDI it into the DTXpressII brain. I know it will work 
> electrically.
> 
> This is more *much* fun than Meccano...
> 
> Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by moosetication

--- "liberatusvirus" wrote:

> You've accomplished splitting a rim switch from a gum rubber stereo 
> pad and sending it to the rim input of another pad? Please expain. 

Not quite... I simply checked out that the "kickR" trigger existed by 
plugging a PCY-65S into 1 and hitting the rim. 

But I have kinda assumed that the tip and ring on the stereo jack for 
a stereo pad are the piezo and the FSR with a common ground. In which 
case, I should be able to use stereo-mono TRS splitters to route the 
tip and ring from one pad to the tip on one brain input and the ring 
on another. See what I mean?

(I feel a desperate urge to draw a picture)

Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by moosetication

--- I  wrote:
> And it would be interesting to see if 
> there are any triggers on the market that
> are just FSRs...

And lo and behold, the Drum-Tech Pole Pad is a dual-zone FSR. Not 
exactly inexpensive, mind.

Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by liberatusvirus

Stewart,

I own a Drum Tech Pole Pad and love it, but here's why I don't 
believe that the plan to split the rim off will work. I'm quoting 
from another post that I wrote when younger and could think better:

Input 9/10 will handle two mono FSRs or two piezos but not one piezo 
and one membrane switch from a "stereo" pad or cymbal, because 
stereo pads and inputs have a totally different electronic makeup 
than their dual-zone, or mono, counterparts. Inputs 1-8, as 
combinations of 1 piezo/2 membrane switches (or FSRs), would seem, 
in principle, to permit a triggering opportunity for the two 
independent FSRs of a BP 80 or its equivalent if you could just get 
to them. The problem is that those two membrane switches are not 
independent triggers. Their open and closed positions (membranes are 
basically open/close toggles) determine what sound the piezo is 
going to make--whether the sound programed to the rim, the body, or 
a choke; the switches are, if you will, slaves to the piezo. The 
timing of how the interaction between them takes place, not to 
mention the delicacy of their relative physical locations in the 
pad, is complicated. But the upshot is that creative cabling won't 
help you; those inputs are  by nature single piezo inputs. You can't 
treat the "stereo" or "trio" inputs as taking multiple mono feeds, 
whether piezos or FSRs. Anyway, that's my understanding.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" 
<moosetication@y...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> --- I  wrote:
> > And it would be interesting to see if 
> > there are any triggers on the market that
> > are just FSRs...
> 
> And lo and behold, the Drum-Tech Pole Pad is a dual-zone FSR. Not 
> exactly inexpensive, mind.
> 
> Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by moosetication

--- "liberatusvirus" wrote:
> ....but here's why I don't 
> believe that the plan to split the rim off will work...

[much sound reasoning omitted]

Good point, well made. But... I haven't made myself clear.

Let's try a concrete example. Get a pencil and paper, because my 
ASCII art isn't up to the job...

I have a PCY-65S stereo cymbal pad, and a TP-65 mono drum pad. I have 
three stereo-mono splitters. One of these splits the stereo output 
from the PCY to two mono patch cables. Another splitter is on 9/10 
(givig me two mono piezo inputs). The last is on 1 (kick), giving me 
the ability to provide input to kick pad (piezo) and kick rim (FSR) 
seperately.

I take the "piezo" side of the PCY, and route it to one side of 9/10, 
with the TP-65 on the other. The FSR side of the PCY I route to 
the "rim" side of the kick input. The pad size comes from the KP-65 
using a mono cable as usual. So I'm not trying to put piezos through 
FSR inputs or vice versa.

(whew)

Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by moosetication

> You can't treat the "stereo" or "trio" inputs as taking
> multiple mono feeds, whether piezos or FSRs. Anyway,
> that's my understanding.

Oh. Hang on, I've just actually read your message (funny, I never 
thought of that before replying). That's a bummer. I thought I'd just 
gotten a quart into a pint pot...

Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by liberatusvirus

Okay, I did the diagram and connected the dots, but what I'm not 
sure that you can do in the first place is use a TRS (stereo to two 
monos) splitter to divide the "voices" of the stereo pad. Because, 
as I understand it, the FSR switch does not have voice capability 
itself, but only in conjunction with the piezo to which it is 
physically attached. In other words, because it can't be detached 
from the piezo housed in the same pad, a TRS splitter will not get 
you the second voice on one of the leads but only the voice 
associated with the main piezo, that is, the body. It cannot touch 
the toggle switch, which emanates from elsewhere. 

Incidentally, the Drum Tech Pole Pad's dual-mono FSRs function 
differently from rim switches. They will sound individually through 
any input that takes a mono piezo. I run them through two inputs on 
my MidiKiti. No rim switch from a stereo pad will work through one 
of those MidiKiti inputs as a separate entity with its own voice.

Stewart, the possibility still exists that I may be addled. So maybe 
the only thing to do is try it physically, though if you haven't run 
out of patience, and I've missed something, please go on. Sorry if 
I'm not getting it.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" 
<moosetication@y...> wrote:
> --- "liberatusvirus" wrote:
> > ....but here's why I don't 
> > believe that the plan to split the rim off will work...
> 
> [much sound reasoning omitted]
> 
> Good point, well made. But... I haven't made myself clear.
> 
> Let's try a concrete example. Get a pencil and paper, because my 
> ASCII art isn't up to the job...
> 
> I have a PCY-65S stereo cymbal pad, and a TP-65 mono drum pad. I 
have 
> three stereo-mono splitters. One of these splits the stereo output 
> from the PCY to two mono patch cables. Another splitter is on 9/10 
> (givig me two mono piezo inputs). The last is on 1 (kick), giving 
me 
> the ability to provide input to kick pad (piezo) and kick rim 
(FSR) 
> seperately.
> 
> I take the "piezo" side of the PCY, and route it to one side of 
9/10, 
> with the TP-65 on the other. The FSR side of the PCY I route to 
> the "rim" side of the kick input. The pad size comes from the KP-
65 
> using a mono cable as usual. So I'm not trying to put piezos 
through 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> FSR inputs or vice versa.
> 
> (whew)
> 
> Stewart

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by isidorelechat

Many thanks for your replies.

I am one step closer from buying :+)
I only need to find a snare that I am sure will be compatible.

Re: DTXpress II upgrade plan

2003-05-01 by moosetication

--- "liberatusvirus" wrote:
> Stewart, the possibility still exists that I may be addled.

No, it doesn't. It's me. Unaccustomed sunshine, that's what I blame. 
Causes an excess of vitamin D, leading to a tendency to not pay 
attention.

[sigh]

Sorry. I'll pay attention in class next time.

Stewart

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