Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

hi everybody,
i am planning to get the v-kick and v-snare from
roland to add into my dtxpress set....
are they compatible?
how about other roland pads? any exceptions? 
thanks a lot !

kevin

Having looked into these sorts of isssues the past week or so, roland 
pads should work fine with the yamaha brain. Although they're not 
tailor made to work together, if you have the patience to tweak for a 
while then its all good. but please get a second opinion, i'm no 
expert... (and i've never actually used that type of setup before)

cheers pete



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "vai_lee" <vai_lee@y...> wrote:

> hi everybody,
> i am planning to get the v-kick and v-snare from
> roland to add into my dtxpress set....
> are they compatible?
> how about other roland pads? any exceptions? 
> thanks a lot !
> 
> kevin

> i am planning to get the v-kick and v-snare from
> roland to add into my dtxpress set....
> are they compatible?

Unfortunately you will have to decrease the output of the Roland pads to match the sensitivity of the DTXpress.
You will get a 99% triggering on a low to medium strike of the v-pads.  No tweaking will cure it.  All yamaha pads have a potentiometer 
inside the pad to accommadate the lack of input sensitivity on the modules.  Once you do decrease the output with a 250k pot, you will 
enjoy a very responsive combination.  
Jun

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jtatsuoka" <jtatsuoka@y...> wrote:
> Unfortunately you will have to decrease the output of the Roland 
pads to match the sensitivity of the DTXpress.
> You will get a 99% triggering on a low to medium strike of the v-
pads.  No tweaking will cure it.  All yamaha pads have a 
potentiometer 
> inside the pad to accommadate the lack of input sensitivity on the 
modules.  Once you do decrease the output with a 250k pot, you will 
> enjoy a very responsive combination.  

Hi Jun,

You've made this valuable point before, and I'm not doubting it. But 
I'd like to establish it further if possible. My limited experience 
with running Roland equipment through the Yamaha module seems to run 
counter to your warning, and at least one person on this board has 
mentioned an attenuated signal on the Roland mesh snare rim, without 
any reverse situation on the body proper. Though I haven't mixed the 
snare with the Xpress, the Roland CY-6 cymbal did not seem to 
distinguish itself from Yammy pads by excessive gain--quite the 
opposite. I let it go because I didn't find it responsive enough. 
Moreover, Pintech products, which traditionally have been 
manufactured with Roland modules in mind, do not exhibit that 
problem; nor do the Harts--again quite the opposite in both cases. 
Are there owners of Yamaha/Roland tandems who could comment on their 
experience? OGD, and others, have you run across the potentiometer, 
or its effects, in your dissection of the Xpress pads? We could build 
some definitive recommendations and electronic profiles by following 
up on Jun's statement.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jtatsuoka" <jtatsuoka@y...> wrote:
> > Unfortunately you will have to decrease the output of the Roland 
> pads to match the sensitivity of the DTXpress.
> > You will get a 99% triggering on a low to medium strike of the v-
> pads.  No tweaking will cure it.  All yamaha pads have a 
> potentiometer 
> > inside the pad to accommadate the lack of input sensitivity on the 
> modules.  Once you do decrease the output with a 250k pot, you will 
> > enjoy a very responsive combination.  
> 
> Hi Jun,
> 
> You've made this valuable point before, and I'm not doubting it. But 
> I'd like to establish it further if possible. My limited experience 
> with running Roland equipment through the Yamaha module seems to run 
> counter to your warning, and at least one person on this board has 
> mentioned an attenuated signal on the Roland mesh snare rim, without 
> any reverse situation on the body proper. Though I haven't mixed the 
> snare with the Xpress, the Roland CY-6 cymbal did not seem to 
> distinguish itself from Yammy pads by excessive gain--quite the 
> opposite. I let it go because I didn't find it responsive enough. 
> Moreover, Pintech products, which traditionally have been 
> manufactured with Roland modules in mind, do not exhibit that 
> problem; nor do the Harts--again quite the opposite in both cases. 
> Are there owners of Yamaha/Roland tandems who could comment on their 
> experience? OGD, and others, have you run across the potentiometer, 
> or its effects, in your dissection of the Xpress pads? We could build 
> some definitive recommendations and electronic profiles by following 
> up on Jun's statement.
> 
> Ed
The original poster mentioned compatibility with the Roland snare and kick.  For the mesh head portion of the snare and the kick you will 
need a potentiometer.  The signal from the rim of the snare might not need it or is too weak because the rubber on the rim acts as an 
attenuator.  Probably the same with the material on the Roland cymbals.  The fact that you were not able to use the Roland cymbal, 
because of a weak signal,  proves that the DTXpress does NOT  have an input gain.  If it did you would have been able to turn the 
sensitivity up. The DTXpress does have a 'gain' and 'mvel' but as you know decreasing the 'gain' does not affect the percentage that 
shows up on the display. The  picture of the Yamaha pad by OGD depicts a surface mount potentiometer on the little circuit board. Try 
turning that up and down. You will experience either too much or too little gai
I believe Pintech had any module with a sensitivity knob in mind not just Roland.  Pintech used to advertise with Alesis modules until 
Roland bought them out. Yamaha modules are the only modules on the market that lack an input sensitivity.  Even the lowly Alesis D4 
has one.   

Ed, you use Pintech?  What values are your 'gain' and 'mvel' set at?  Are you experiencing a 'perfect percentage' response? If you are 
reaching 99% before maximun velocity,  you should try spicing a cheap cable and inserting a 250k pot.  Set your 'gain=99' and 'mvel=1' 
and adjust the pot until you achieve optimum performance.
Jun


 
.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jtatsuoka" <jtatsuoka@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" 
<liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> The original poster mentioned compatibility with the Roland snare 
and kick.  For the mesh head portion of the snare and the kick you 
will 
> need a potentiometer.  The signal from the rim of the snare might 
not need it or is too weak because the rubber on the rim acts as an 
> attenuator.  Probably the same with the material on the Roland 
cymbals.  The fact that you were not able to use the Roland cymbal, 
> because of a weak signal,  proves that the DTXpress does NOT  have 
an input gain.  If it did you would have been able to turn the 
> sensitivity up. The DTXpress does have a 'gain' and 'mvel' but as 
you know decreasing the 'gain' does not affect the percentage that 
> shows up on the display. The  picture of the Yamaha pad by OGD 
depicts a surface mount potentiometer on the little circuit board. 
Try 
> turning that up and down. You will experience either too much or 
too little gai
> I believe Pintech had any module with a sensitivity knob in mind 
not just Roland.  Pintech used to advertise with Alesis modules until 
> Roland bought them out. Yamaha modules are the only modules on the 
market that lack an input sensitivity.  Even the lowly Alesis D4 
> has one.   
> 
> Ed, you use Pintech?  What values are your 'gain' and 'mvel' set 
at?  Are you experiencing a 'perfect percentage' response? If you are 
> reaching 99% before maximun velocity,  you should try spicing a 
cheap cable and inserting a 250k pot.  Set your 'gain=99' 
and 'mvel=1' 
> and adjust the pot until you achieve optimum performance.

Jun,

Thanks. Yes, I use Pintech meshes for the snare and all toms. I've 
come to an understanding with my setup, which includes flipped up DIP 
switches on the back of the module, toms with  moderate gain and min 
vel., and snare on separate stand with a low min. vel, and fairly 
high gain. Playing with what must pass for a relatively delicate 
touch from the likes of me has been getting satisfactory results, but 
I will experiment when I can and report back. Maybe we should prevail 
on Yamaha to change their strategy, which seems to be an attempt to 
dissuade the use of other company's pads, though the results don't 
seem definitive enough for that. 

Now I'm wondering whether the lack of input sensitivity on the module 
is responsible for Hart's spotty performance with Yamaha electronics. 
If so, why didn't Peter Hart say so when we told him about the 
problems, instead of claiming to look into them but remaining mute. 
This would not seem to be too difficult to figure out, if Yamaha 
differs from everyone else in this respect. 

Ed

As a player of a Pintech/Yamaha rig, I'm interested in this 250K pot. 
I haven't been interested in pot since the 70s, and certainly I'm not 
interested in any pot for 250K. But if it will make my kit more 
responsive, I'll at least investigate.

Seriously, what is a 250K pot?

Stephen

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700" <brown8700@a...> wrote:
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700" <brown8700@a...> wrote:
> As a player of a Pintech/Yamaha rig, I'm interested in this 250K 
pot. 
> I haven't been interested in pot since the 70s, and certainly I'm 
not 
> interested in any pot for 250K. But if it will make my kit more 
> responsive, I'll at least investigate.
> 
> Seriously, what is a 250K pot?

Stephen,

A pot, or potentiometer, is an electronic component used to change 
the reistance in a circuit to permit volume adjustments. It's often 
found as a rotary control (a volume knob). Jun is pointing out that 
because the inputs on the Yamaha module have no sensitivity control 
of their own, some non-Yamaha pads are going to send signals into 
them like gangbusters and register every hit at too high a level, 
without graduated steps. A pot spliced into the cable leading from 
one of these pads (a Roland, Pintech, or what have you) into a Yamaha 
input would allow the user to adjust the signal strength to keep 
light and intermediate hits from registering too high a gain. The 
Yamaha pads have their own pots to compensate for what the module 
lacks (the TP80S had the sensitivity knob on the bottom), leaving 
other companies' at a disadvantage. The 250k is simply a measurement 
of that resistance, allowing for enough signal attenuation to create 
a smooth curve.

Ed

Ed, 

I'm wondering if the lack of 'input sensitivity' contributes to the incredible dynamics achieved once the  pad output is set. I would love to A/
B a Roland or ddrum module with our DTXpress.

> Now I'm wondering whether the lack of input sensitivity on the module 
> is responsible for Hart's spotty performance with Yamaha electronics. 

What do you meanby 'spotty' ? 

> If so, why didn't Peter Hart say so when we told him about the 
> problems, instead of claiming to look into them but remaining mute.

If the problem is too weak of a signal , you would need some sort of level booster to correct it.  

Jun

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jtatsuoka" <jtatsuoka@y...> wrote:
> I'm wondering if the lack of 'input sensitivity' contributes to the 
incredible dynamics achieved once the  pad output is set. I would 
love to A/
> B a Roland or ddrum module with our DTXpress.

Me too. I've played the Rolands but not together with Yamaha. I can't 
say that I ever noticed anything that would have led me to think that 
what the Yamaha lacked when coupled with other manufacturers' pads 
was input sensitivity (among other things), though that seems 
reasonable now that you mention it. The Roland Session/TD-10 is 
obviously more refined, better approximating the acoustic experience 
in every respect. Anyone could simply chalk up the Yamaha's relative 
coarseness to the wide price difference. By "dynamics" do you mean 
the range between really loud and really soft? Are you saying that 
the Yamaha sacrifices clear mid-level gradations for a wide dynamic 
range?

> What do you meanby 'spotty' [with Hart]? 

People reported that the snare and ECII ride did not track well 
through the Yamaha. My own experience is with the ECII; others have 
complained about the snare and the hat. The crashes, apparently, are 
fine. 
 
> If the problem is too weak of a signal , you would need some sort 
of level booster to correct it.  

Simple, inherent evel boosting of the kind that works with other less 
robust pads didn't seem to help matters at all in the Hart case. 
Mayber other kinds of compatibility were behind it. There are other 
kinds of triggers that don't appear to mate well with Yamaha; ddrum 
acoustic-drum triggers come to mind. I think that ddrum may explain 
why on their site.

Ed,
> By "dynamics" do you mean the range between really loud and really soft? 
 
Yes.  All accents and ghost strokes triggering accordingly.

> Are you saying that  the Yamaha sacrifices clear mid-level gradations for a wide dynamic 
> range?

No.  The DTXpress does not sacrifice  any 'mid-level gradations'.  The tracking is superb, very close to an acoustic drum. If dynamics on 
an acoustic drum was '100%', i would rate the Dtxpress at about '85%' and the Alesis D4 at '65%'. 

Jun

I read the talk about potentiometers on cables, and thought this product may come handy, I saw these cables with a volume knob integrated in one of the plugs @ http://www.guyatone.com/other/speedcable.html I hope they're useful for someone someday.

Available in three lengths: 3 meters, 5 meters and 7 meters 
 
\ufffd High-purity, oxygen-free copper multi-conductor core wire and shield 
 \ufffd High performance, heat-resistant polymer insulator 
 \ufffd Volume Plug -- High performance, zero-shorting volume slider  
 \ufffd Gold-plated 1/4" plugs 

Pedro.

liberatusvirus <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700" <brown8700@a...> wrote:
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700" <brown8700@a...> wrote:
> As a player of a Pintech/Yamaha rig, I'm interested in this 250K 
pot. 
> I haven't been interested in pot since the 70s, and certainly I'm 
not 
> interested in any pot for 250K. But if it will make my kit more 
> responsive, I'll at least investigate.
> 
> Seriously, what is a 250K pot?

Stephen,

A pot, or potentiometer, is an electronic component used to change 
the reistance in a circuit to permit volume adjustments. It's often 
found as a rotary control (a volume knob). Jun is pointing out that 
because the inputs on the Yamaha module have no sensitivity control 
of their own, some non-Yamaha pads are going to send signals into 
them like gangbusters and register every hit at too high a level, 
without graduated steps. A pot spliced into the cable leading from 
one of these pads (a Roland, Pintech, or what have you) into a Yamaha 
input would allow the user to adjust the signal strength to keep 
light and intermediate hits from registering too high a gain. The 
Yamaha pads have their own pots to compensate for what the module 
lacks (the TP80S had the sensitivity knob on the bottom), leaving 
other companies' at a disadvantage. The 250k is simply a measurement 
of that resistance, allowing for enough signal attenuation to create 
a smooth curve.

Ed


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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Theguy Withnoeye 
<theguywithnoeye@y...> wrote:
> I read the talk about potentiometers on cables, and thought this 
product may come handy, I saw these cables with a volume knob 
integrated in one of the plugs @ 
http://www.guyatone.com/other/speedcable.html I hope they're useful 
for someone someday.
> 
> Available in three lengths: 3 meters, 5 meters and 7 meters 
>  
> · High-purity, oxygen-free copper multi-conductor core wire and 
shield 
>  · High performance, heat-resistant polymer insulator 
>  · Volume Plug -- High performance, zero-shorting volume slider  
>  · Gold-plated 1/4" plugs 

Those cables seem really cool. I just visited the site to find out 
that they're out of stock at the moment. Oh, bother.

Ed

> 
> Those cables seem really cool. I just visited the site to find out 
> that they're out of stock at the moment. Oh, bother.
> 
> Ed

They are available at Musicians Friend for $45 each!
Jun

Ed wrote: 
Those cables seem really cool. I just visited the site to find out 
that they're out of stock at the moment. Oh, bother.

Ed

 
well it seems they have'em at http://www.musiciansfriend.com , but at 44.99 I'd rather make my own cables with pot, indeed they look cool.
 
Pedro.

 

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