Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

I have a DTXpress II module which I've been playing with a kit 
consisting of mostly TP60 pads, a pintech inverted kick trigger, & 
drumtech snare.  I've also worked with TP80s pads & drumtech toms, as 
well as an S&S stealth trigger inverted kick & the yamaha DTX cymbal 
pads.  I'm currently developing a hybrid kit using an acoustic kick, 
acoustic snare, rototom & cymbal.  I bought the ddrum redshot 
triggers for the kick & snare.  I cannot for the life of me get the 
kick trigger settings to work right.  the weird thing is that by 
itself, the kick trigger works fine, but when I hit ANY OTHER PAD 
from the list above, the kick drops out.  No other drum does this.  
anyone have any ideas?

toby

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "tfkienle" <tfkienle@y...> wrote:
> I have a DTXpress II module which I've been playing with a kit 
> consisting of mostly TP60 pads, a pintech inverted kick trigger, & 
> drumtech snare.  I've also worked with TP80s pads & drumtech toms, 
as 
> well as an S&S stealth trigger inverted kick & the yamaha DTX 
cymbal 
> pads.  I'm currently developing a hybrid kit using an acoustic 
kick, 
> acoustic snare, rototom & cymbal.  I bought the ddrum redshot 
> triggers for the kick & snare.  I cannot for the life of me get the 
> kick trigger settings to work right.  the weird thing is that by 
> itself, the kick trigger works fine, but when I hit ANY OTHER PAD 
> from the list above, the kick drops out.  No other drum does this.  
> anyone have any ideas?

Toby,

If the kick input has a high rejection or specific rejection 
associated with it, it might not fire when other pads are hit. You 
may have to experiment a bit. Keep all rejection-related numbers only 
as high as necessary to prevent cross triggers. You might also have 
to adjust gain and min. velocity down and up, respectively, on the 
kick input. An acoustic snare on a separate stand shouldn't be 
interfering with the kick, except if you're on a riser and your snare 
hits are making everything tremble. Which of your components are on a 
rack or other common support system that can transmit vibrations? Are 
you using DT10/20 as the kick's pad type? 

On another note, I love Drum Tech equipment. I use the Kick Pad; it's 
the only nonwoven head that I have. But I've always been interested 
in the Flat Pad, but I've never managed to get my hands on one. Can 
you tell me how it triggers and feels in comparison with the Yamaha 
pads that you have?

Ed

Ed,

I definitely have been trying to keep the rejection settings as low 
as possible, but the acoustic kick quickly "double talks" because of 
the vibrating heads or the "slap back" of the resonant head.  The 
redshot trigger is mounted on the batter head side.  right now, the 
kick is in our studio, which is a carpeted floor.  the pad I noticed 
the cut-off with is my hi hat, a tp60, but then i tested it with all 
the other tp pads & they all do the same thing.  the kick isn't 
touching the rack, which contains all drums except the snare.  i'm 
gonna dig out the ddrum redshot manual & just spend a night in there 
alone w/ that shizznit & hope I can sort it out.  If not, I'll have 
to use my pintech for recording, as I will definitely keep the 
acoustic for live use.

oh...as for the pad type, are you referring to a DTX III?  My DTX II 
only has "DT kick", "DT tom", etc.

as for the drumtech flatpads, they rock.  period.  they are probably 
the best-made edrum pad (non-woven) that exists.  built like a tank, 
but incredibly bouncy & a nice 10 inches in diameter, with no rim.  
they blow the yamaha pads away, but keep in mind, they mount with the 
old 7/8" "pipe-style" tom arms, so you might need some hardware to 
mount them.  I have 2 for my main toms currently, & have replaced the 
snare one w/ the acoustic.  I'll probably replace another of the 
tp60's w/ my third drumtech.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "tfkienle" <tfkienle@y...> wrote:
> > I have a DTXpress II module which I've been playing with a kit 
> > consisting of mostly TP60 pads, a pintech inverted kick trigger, 
& 
> > drumtech snare.  I've also worked with TP80s pads & drumtech 
toms, 
> as 
> > well as an S&S stealth trigger inverted kick & the yamaha DTX 
> cymbal 
> > pads.  I'm currently developing a hybrid kit using an acoustic 
> kick, 
> > acoustic snare, rototom & cymbal.  I bought the ddrum redshot 
> > triggers for the kick & snare.  I cannot for the life of me get 
the 
> > kick trigger settings to work right.  the weird thing is that by 
> > itself, the kick trigger works fine, but when I hit ANY OTHER PAD 
> > from the list above, the kick drops out.  No other drum does 
this.  
> > anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Toby,
> 
> If the kick input has a high rejection or specific rejection 
> associated with it, it might not fire when other pads are hit. You 
> may have to experiment a bit. Keep all rejection-related numbers 
only 
> as high as necessary to prevent cross triggers. You might also have 
> to adjust gain and min. velocity down and up, respectively, on the 
> kick input. An acoustic snare on a separate stand shouldn't be 
> interfering with the kick, except if you're on a riser and your 
snare 
> hits are making everything tremble. Which of your components are on 
a 
> rack or other common support system that can transmit vibrations? 
Are 
> you using DT10/20 as the kick's pad type? 
> 
> On another note, I love Drum Tech equipment. I use the Kick Pad; 
it's 

> the only nonwoven head that I have. But I've always been interested 
> in the Flat Pad, but I've never managed to get my hands on one. Can 
> you tell me how it triggers and feels in comparison with the Yamaha 
> pads that you have?
> 
> Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "tfkienle" <tfkienle@y...> wrote:
> Ed,
> 
> I definitely have been trying to keep the rejection settings as low 
> as possible, but the acoustic kick quickly "double talks" because 
of 
> the vibrating heads or the "slap back" of the resonant head.  The 
> redshot trigger is mounted on the batter head side.  right now, the 
> kick is in our studio, which is a carpeted floor.  the pad I 
noticed 
> the cut-off with is my hi hat, a tp60, but then i tested it with 
all 
> the other tp pads & they all do the same thing.  the kick isn't 
> touching the rack, which contains all drums except the snare.  i'm 
> gonna dig out the ddrum redshot manual & just spend a night in 
there 
> alone w/ that shizznit & hope I can sort it out.  If not, I'll have 
> to use my pintech for recording, as I will definitely keep the 
> acoustic for live use.

Geez, the strange thing is that the drop outs are happening to a 
trigger that appears to have no physical bridge to any others. 
Usually a drop out that occurs when another pad fires is the result 
of a high rejection setting, or if it drops out on its own accord, of 
a high self-rejection. If neither is the case, then the redshot would 
be the likely suspect, but the snare, which also has one on it, isn't 
misfiring. 

Sorry if I'm being redundant. But if you nil the kick's rejection and 
specific rejection settings, do you get the same results? Or if you 
nil the self-rejection settings (regardless of the double triggers)? 

If it's not too much to ask, could I impose on you to let me know 
whether your troubleshooting and/or manual reading has any success.
 
> as for the drumtech flatpads, they rock.  period.  they are 
probably 
> the best-made edrum pad (non-woven) that exists.  built like a 
tank, 
> but incredibly bouncy & a nice 10 inches in diameter, with no rim.  
> they blow the yamaha pads away, but keep in mind, they mount with 
the 
> old 7/8" "pipe-style" tom arms, so you might need some hardware to 
> mount them.  I have 2 for my main toms currently, & have replaced 
the 
> snare one w/ the acoustic.  I'll probably replace another of the 
> tp60's w/ my third drumtech.

I'm not surprised. The build quality of my Pole Pad and Kick Pad is 
also excellent, as is the triggering. I happily use mesh pads mounted 
on a Pearl rack primarily with a ddrum module, but the Drum Tech 
appeals to me. Sherpa was going to send me their 11" pad to review, 
even so far as checking the address twice to send it, but never did. 
I've given up on that one. I may well ask Drum Tech if they'd lend us 
one to audition through a bunch of different modules so that we can 
write up a report for the group. 

Ed

I have the smae problems with my acoustic kick and ddrum triggers...No matter what rejection settings i tried, I could never get it to trigger the right sound with double triggering.  If I set the setting to control it too high, I could not use double bass due to it cutting off hits...uugghh.  I got so frustrated that I gave up on it for the time being.  If anyone knows a way to bypass the problem, I'd be interested in hearing it as well.
 
Brett

emf <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "tfkienle" <tfkienle@y...> wrote:
> Ed,
> 
> I definitely have been trying to keep the rejection settings as low 
> as possible, but the acoustic kick quickly "double talks" because 
of 
> the vibrating heads or the "slap back" of the resonant head.  The 
> redshot trigger is mounted on the batter head side.  right now, the 
> kick is in our studio, which is a carpeted floor.  the pad I 
noticed 
> the cut-off with is my hi hat, a tp60, but then i tested it with 
all 
> the other tp pads & they all do the same thing.  the kick isn't 
> touching the rack, which contains all drums except the snare.  i'm 
> gonna dig out the ddrum redshot manual & just spend a night in 
there 
> alone w/ that shizznit & hope I can sort it out.  If not, I'll have 
> to use my pintech for recording, as I will definitely keep the 
> acoustic for live use.

Geez, the strange thing is that the drop outs are happening to a 
trigger that appears to have no physical bridge to any others. 
Usually a drop out that occurs when another pad fires is the result 
of a high rejection setting, or if it drops out on its own accord, of 
a high self-rejection. If neither is the case, then the redshot would 
be the likely suspect, but the snare, which also has one on it, isn't 
misfiring. 

Sorry if I'm being redundant. But if you nil the kick's rejection and 
specific rejection settings, do you get the same results? Or if you 
nil the self-rejection settings (regardless of the double triggers)? 

If it's not too much to ask, could I impose on you to let me know 
whether your troubleshooting and/or manual reading has any success.

> as for the drumtech flatpads, they rock.  period.  they are 
probably 
> the best-made edrum pad (non-woven) that exists.  built like a 
tank, 
> but incredibly bouncy & a nice 10 inches in diameter, with no rim.  
> they blow the yamaha pads away, but keep in mind, they mount with 
the 
> old 7/8" "pipe-style" tom arms, so you might need some hardware to 
> mount them.  I have 2 for my main toms currently, & have replaced 
the 
> snare one w/ the acoustic.  I'll probably replace another of the 
> tp60's w/ my third drumtech.

I'm not surprised. The build quality of my Pole Pad and Kick Pad is 
also excellent, as is the triggering. I happily use mesh pads mounted 
on a Pearl rack primarily with a ddrum module, but the Drum Tech 
appeals to me. Sherpa was going to send me their 11" pad to review, 
even so far as checking the address twice to send it, but never did. 
I've given up on that one. I may well ask Drum Tech if they'd lend us 
one to audition through a bunch of different modules so that we can 
write up a report for the group. 

Ed



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Vote Quimby!

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Brett <baaron_123@y...> wrote:
> I have the smae problems with my acoustic kick and ddrum 
triggers...No matter what rejection settings i tried, I could never 
get it to trigger the right sound with double triggering.  If I set 
the setting to control it too high, I could not use double bass due 
to it cutting off hits...uugghh.  I got so frustrated that I gave up 
on it for the time being.  If anyone knows a way to bypass the 
problem, I'd be interested in hearing it as well.

Toby and Brett,

I sent an inquiry to Clavia about the problem. I've had success with 
them before. Maybe someone from ddrum will have a suggestion. 

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> I sent an inquiry to Clavia about the problem. I've had success 
with 
> them before. Maybe someone from ddrum will have a suggestion. 

Toby and Brett,

I posted the problem at the ddrum forum and got this reply:

"The only time I had a problem triggering with a red shot trigger is 
when I was using a Yamaha DTXpress module. It was difficult to find 
that happy place between good sensitivity and double trigger. It 
never worked well for me."

So, it may not be much comfort, but you are not alone. Barring any 
word from Clavia, you might consider trying another company's trigger 
on the kick.

Ed

Hey, Ed.  Thanks for helping out with our problem.  The other thing that I've been considering trying, but haven't had the time to do yet, is to take the trigger of the batter side, and place it on the resonate side.  I assume that there would be enough vibration from the impact of the batter haed.  I may be wrong, and I'm on my way to give it a shot, so we'll know more shortly.
 
I'll be back with an update.
 
Brett

emf <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> I sent an inquiry to Clavia about the problem. I've had success 
with 
> them before. Maybe someone from ddrum will have a suggestion. 

Toby and Brett,

I posted the problem at the ddrum forum and got this reply:

"The only time I had a problem triggering with a red shot trigger is 
when I was using a Yamaha DTXpress module. It was difficult to find 
that happy place between good sensitivity and double trigger. It 
never worked well for me."

So, it may not be much comfort, but you are not alone. Barring any 
word from Clavia, you might consider trying another company's trigger 
on the kick.

Ed




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Vote Quimby!

No, Luck!  Guess my idea, although possible, was more of a desperate hope, than possible solution... back to the ol' drawing board.
 
Brett

emf <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> I sent an inquiry to Clavia about the problem. I've had success 
with 
> them before. Maybe someone from ddrum will have a suggestion. 

Toby and Brett,

I posted the problem at the ddrum forum and got this reply:

"The only time I had a problem triggering with a red shot trigger is 
when I was using a Yamaha DTXpress module. It was difficult to find 
that happy place between good sensitivity and double trigger. It 
never worked well for me."

So, it may not be much comfort, but you are not alone. Barring any 
word from Clavia, you might consider trying another company's trigger 
on the kick.

Ed




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Vote Quimby!

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Brett <baaron_123@y...> wrote:
> Hey, Ed.  Thanks for helping out with our problem.  The other thing 
that I've been considering trying, but haven't had the time to do 
yet, is to take the trigger of the batter side, and place it on the 
resonate side.  I assume that there would be enough vibration from 
the impact of the batter haed.  I may be wrong, and I'm on my way to 
give it a shot, so we'll know more shortly.
>  
> I'll be back with an update.

Here's another idea. I'm not sure whether it's half-baked. If the 
signal from the ddrum trigger is too hot for the DTXpress senstivity 
control to eliminate double triggers without causing dropouts, what 
about inserting a resistor in the cable from the redshot? If you use, 
say, a 250K pot, then you might be able to find a point on the knob 
that allows a low enough self-rejection setting to eliminate both 
problems. Is anyone's mind working well enough today to comment on 
this strategy?

It's worth a shot placing the piezo on the front, although the potential problem is delay (not to mention phase issues): it'll take more time for the trigger to um, well, trigger....  Also the trigger waveform is likely to be more rounded with a slow attack, far from the ideal 'spike' you'd desire for good triggering...

The potentiometer idea seems do-able, but will obviously require soldering.

###

A similar mechanical approach is to tape a layer of open cell foam (or the like) between the piezo and the drum to reduce some of the signal strength.   Aside from reducing signal strength, the foam also help keep the trigger signals clean by reducing the noise factor (part of the reason why Roland uses those blue closed-cell foam cones: cleaner triggering).

Obviously I don't know the particulars of your set-up, but needing to reduce the vibration going into the piezo is generally a preferable problem to have than trying to increase it: the latter is harder to deal with...

Chris


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:

> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Brett <baaron_123@y...> wrote:
> > Hey, Ed.  Thanks for helping out with our problem.  The other thing
> that I've been considering trying, but haven't had the time to do
> yet, is to take the trigger of the batter side, and place it on the
> resonate side.  I assume that there would be enough vibration from
> the impact of the batter haed.  I may be wrong, and I'm on my way to
> give it a shot, so we'll know more shortly.
> > 
> > I'll be back with an update.
>
> Here's another idea. I'm not sure whether it's half-baked. If the
> signal from the ddrum trigger is too hot for the DTXpress senstivity
> control to eliminate double triggers without causing dropouts, what
> about inserting a resistor in the cable from the redshot? If you use,
> say, a 250K pot, then you might be able to find a point on the knob
> that allows a low enough self-rejection setting to eliminate both
> problems. Is anyone's mind working well enough today to comment on
> this strategy?

It seems to me, after paying much more attention to my playing technique, the problem is not the ddrum triggers "accidentally triggering".  It's that my heavy foot and pedal rebound causes the pedal to double strike the batter head without trying.  There is just enough bounce on my initial hit to produce a second strike on the batter head.  Adjusting the settings only seems to make it impossible to use a double bass pedal, although a high enough setting with separate bass drums would work just fine, assuming my feet don't put Lars Ulrich to shame (which won't happen anytime soon).
 
I guess in short, I should just say that I must try to adjust my technique, or I will drive myself crazy.

Brett <baaron_123@...> wrote:
No, Luck!  Guess my idea, although possible, was more of a desperate hope, than possible solution... back to the ol' drawing board.
 
Brett

emf <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> I sent an inquiry to Clavia about the problem. I've had success 
with 
> them before. Maybe someone from ddrum will have a suggestion. 

Toby and Brett,

I posted the problem at the ddrum forum and got this reply:

"The only time I had a problem triggering with a red shot trigger is 
when I was using a Yamaha DTXpress module. It was difficult to find 
that happy place between good sensitivity and double trigger. It 
never worked well for me."

So, it may not be much comfort, but you are not alone. Barring any 
word from Clavia, you might consider trying another company's trigger 
on the kick.

Ed




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Vote Quimby!


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Vote Quimby!