Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi I'm fairly new to the Yamaha DTXPRESS III area.  If any one can, 
please see if you can answer a question about a problem I've just 
started having with my PCY-65S wedge stereo cymbal.  First of all, 
the set is only about 10 days old, yesterday when I was just playing 
one of the pre-programmed drumkits, like the accoustic drumkit for 
example, after about 45 minutes of playing it when I hit the edge of 
the PCY-65S cymbal it started to make a swish sound with an abrupt 
stop instead of the typical nice crashhhhhhhhhhhhh hissing sound it 
always made before.  Now when I play it I notice it will do this 
intermitanly and not all the time.  Sometimes it will play the way 
it use to and is suppose to and other times it will do it's 
abnoxious new short swish computer synthisized sound.  It doesn't 
sound at all like a nice clear crash cymbal when it does it.  It's 
just abnoxious.  

I did notice, however, most of the time when it starts to act up 
like this if you hit the cymbal toward the center and not the edge 
then it will still crash, however, when you choose some other 
drumkits like the one that has the gong sound and not a crash sound 
it won't make the gong sound at all, no matter where you hit it.  

Has anyone run across this problem or something similar before?  And 
is there a fix besides having to RMA it back to the wholesaler for a 
replacement?  Please let me know if anyone knows the fix.  

Thanks,
Glen
gdearl@...

Glen,

Unplug the cable out of the back of the PCY65S and plug it into the
snare and try that.  It will eliminate the cable and module as the
problem.  You are then probably left with a faulty PCY65S (assuming
the plug was plugged in fully).  However, I don't understand the sound
you are describing.  A faulty rim switch would just give the same
sound from both the edge and the rim.  Can you still choke the cymbal?
 Maybe the (faulty) rim switch is making and breaking so you are
getting choking of the rim sound?

Keith.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Earl" <gdearl@e...> wrote:
> Hi I'm fairly new to the Yamaha DTXPRESS III area.  If any one can, 
> please see if you can answer a question about a problem I've just 
> started having with my PCY-65S wedge stereo cymbal.  First of all, 
> the set is only about 10 days old, yesterday when I was just 
playing 
> one of the pre-programmed drumkits, like the accoustic drumkit for 
> example, after about 45 minutes of playing it when I hit the edge 
of 
> the PCY-65S cymbal it started to make a swish sound with an abrupt 
> stop instead of the typical nice crashhhhhhhhhhhhh hissing sound it 
> always made before.  Now when I play it I notice it will do this 
> intermitanly and not all the time.  Sometimes it will play the way 
> it use to and is suppose to and other times it will do it's 
> abnoxious new short swish computer synthisized sound.  It doesn't 
> sound at all like a nice clear crash cymbal when it does it.  It's 
> just abnoxious. 

Hi Glen,

To supplement Keith, I'm not at all sure what's happening at this 
point. I assume that different voices are programmed into the bow and 
edge of the cymbal. One thing that we've learned over the years with 
earlier versions of this cymbal is that hitting an electronic cymbal 
is not the same as hitting an acoustic one. If you don't strike a rim 
with more of a glancing blow than a direct hit, you risk choking the 
voice. In other words, leaving the stick in contact with the cymbal 
for any length of time beyond the intial contact risks activating the 
choke function. This seems not to be the case as much for the newer 
versions than the old. But, as I said, I have no idea whether it has 
anything to do with your current problem.
 
> I did notice, however, most of the time when it starts to act up 
> like this if you hit the cymbal toward the center and not the edge 
> then it will still crash, however, when you choose some other 
> drumkits like the one that has the gong sound and not a crash sound 
> it won't make the gong sound at all, no matter where you hit it.  

I'm not sure what you're driving at here. The rim switch and the bow 
piezo are programmed to separate sounds entirely (that is, if you or 
the default kit set them up as such). Your rim switch can fail 
without affecting what happens at the center (not vice versa, 
though). Is the gong an edge sound? If we can get clear about what 
you expect to happen and what's not happening, we should be able to 
get to the bottom of it. Hopefully, you having quite understood how 
these things work. The worst case is a broken cymbal; the best is 
user error.

Ed

Hi Keith, so far your diagnosis and solution to my problem sounds the
best, thus far.  That's probably exactly what it is, is a faulty rim
switch.  What is happening is, when it is acting up, when you hit the
edge, unlike what it did a few days ago and when I first got it, it is
immediately choking without continuing to make it's nice continued
shhhhhhhh sound to finish out the crash.  At the same time, however,
when you hit the cymbal on the rim and not the edge it will, most of the
time, make the continuing crash sound like it is suppose to.  In other
words, most of the time, if I want the cymbal to make the crash sound
like it is suppose to in the first place by hitting it on the edge, like
it was to begin with, then I always have to remember to hit it on the
rim and not the edge or it will sound really stupid and not at all like
a crash cymbal.   
 
The part about the gong is, when I went to a drum kit which had that
cymbal as the gong, when I hit it, it would just make a weird short cut
off computer synthesized noise, hard to explain.  By hitting it on the
rim in that scenario, it didn't make any difference.  I'm not sure what
is going on, however, I agree with you, I think I have a faulty rim
switch or if there is such a thing, a faulty edge switch on this
particular cymbal.  
 
If that is the case then I need to go about getting it replaced somehow
through the place I purchased it, I guess.  I'm not really sure.  
 
Any way, thanks for your help and suggestions.  I really do appreciate
it very much.  I do believe that is what it is, is a faulty switch in
the cymbal.  
 
Thanks,
Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith [mailto:keith@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:14 AM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DTXpress] Re: DTXPRESS III Wedge Stereo Cymbal Problem
 
Glen,

Unplug the cable out of the back of the PCY65S and plug it into the
snare and try that.  It will eliminate the cable and module as the
problem.  You are then probably left with a faulty PCY65S (assuming
the plug was plugged in fully).  However, I don't understand the sound
you are describing.  A faulty rim switch would just give the same
sound from both the edge and the rim.  Can you still choke the cymbal?
Maybe the (faulty) rim switch is making and breaking so you are
getting choking of the rim sound?

Keith.




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Hi Ed, I think what's happening with the scenario of the gong drum kit
is, the gong voice is probably programmed to the edge switch, if there
is such an animal, and when I'm hitting the cymbal any where at all, no
matter how or where I hit it, it won't make the gong sound, at all.
That pretty much tells me that which ever switch the gong sound is
programmed to is faulting.  At least that's the only thing which makes
much sense to me about any of this.  
 
Any way, as I responded to Keith's email.  I'm pretty sure, like he
said, that it's probably a switch in the cymbal that is faulty.  It is
extremely intermittent at this point.  It does work ok some times and
other times it won't work at all on the edge sound, the way it's suppose
to.  
 
Thanks for all your input regarding this matter, but I'm pretty sure
it's a faulty switch within the cymbal.  
 
Thanks,
Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: emf [mailto:liberatusvirus@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 6:42 AM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DTXpress] Re: DTXPRESS III Wedge Stereo Cymbal Problem
 
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Earl" <gdearl@e...> wrote:
> Hi I'm fairly new to the Yamaha DTXPRESS III area.  If any one can, 
> please see if you can answer a question about a problem I've just 
> started having with my PCY-65S wedge stereo cymbal.  First of all, 
> the set is only about 10 days old, yesterday when I was just 
playing 
> one of the pre-programmed drumkits, like the accoustic drumkit for 
> example, after about 45 minutes of playing it when I hit the edge 
of 
> the PCY-65S cymbal it started to make a swish sound with an abrupt 
> stop instead of the typical nice crashhhhhhhhhhhhh hissing sound it 
> always made before.  Now when I play it I notice it will do this 
> intermitanly and not all the time.  Sometimes it will play the way 
> it use to and is suppose to and other times it will do it's 
> abnoxious new short swish computer synthisized sound.  It doesn't 
> sound at all like a nice clear crash cymbal when it does it.  It's 
> just abnoxious. 

Hi Glen,

To supplement Keith, I'm not at all sure what's happening at this 
point. I assume that different voices are programmed into the bow and 
edge of the cymbal. One thing that we've learned over the years with 
earlier versions of this cymbal is that hitting an electronic cymbal 
is not the same as hitting an acoustic one. If you don't strike a rim 
with more of a glancing blow than a direct hit, you risk choking the 
voice. In other words, leaving the stick in contact with the cymbal 
for any length of time beyond the intial contact risks activating the 
choke function. This seems not to be the case as much for the newer 
versions than the old. But, as I said, I have no idea whether it has 
anything to do with your current problem.

> I did notice, however, most of the time when it starts to act up 
> like this if you hit the cymbal toward the center and not the edge 
> then it will still crash, however, when you choose some other 
> drumkits like the one that has the gong sound and not a crash sound 
> it won't make the gong sound at all, no matter where you hit it.  

I'm not sure what you're driving at here. The rim switch and the bow 
piezo are programmed to separate sounds entirely (that is, if you or 
the default kit set them up as such). Your rim switch can fail 
without affecting what happens at the center (not vice versa, 
though). Is the gong an edge sound? If we can get clear about what 
you expect to happen and what's not happening, we should be able to 
get to the bottom of it. Hopefully, you having quite understood how 
these things work. The worst case is a broken cymbal; the best is 
user error.

Ed





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Glen,
 
You can look in the photo gallery of this site and see what the inside of
the PCY65S looks like. The rim switch is actually a pair of split ribbons
that run along the edge of the plastic wedge. Historically, starting with
the PCY80S and then with the PCY65S, rim ribbon switch have been a problem
area. I have an assortment of the PCY65/65S/80S. The PCY80S are the most
troublesome in regards to the ribbon rim switch. If I strike the edge of the
pad with the stick nearly parallel with the pad surface 9 times out 10,
unless it is a glancing blow the cymbal will choke un-intentually. If I
strike the edge at a sharper angle with the stick being 45 degrees from
parallel with the pad surface the edge will trigger properly 9 times out of
10.
 
The PCY65S have less of a problem with this as the edge design was changed
slightly. The problem with the rim switch is it is being used as a dual
purpose device, one as the edge switch to trigger the rim voice and secondly
as pressure sensor to detect if it is being held. It is that time delay that
in many cases is the problem. The time delay is not adjustable either. If a
brief contact is made with the ribbon switch it is interrpeted as a normal
strike and the rim voice is triggered. If the amount of contact time with
the rim switch is longer (i.e. it is physically being held) then it
interrpeted as a choke and the pad and rim voices are cut short. 
 
So, you may indeed have a bad PCY65S, but you may also find that in the end,
as with most edrum issues it comes down to technique.
 
OGD (OldGuyDrummer)

   _____  

From: Glen D. Earl  
Subject: RE: [DTXpress] Re: DTXPRESS III Wedge Stereo Cymbal Problem


That's probably exactly what it is, is a faulty rim switch.   



 


 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Glen D. Earl" <gdearl@e...> wrote:
> Hi Ed, I think what's happening with the scenario of the gong drum kit
> is, the gong voice is probably programmed to the edge switch, if there
> is such an animal, and when I'm hitting the cymbal any where at all, no
> matter how or where I hit it, it won't make the gong sound, at all.
> 

Kit 14 in the DTXpress III has the gong on the rim.  You could check
it out by plugging the snare into the crash input.

Keith.