Digital BW, The Print

Julian,

One thing I have done since I started with inkjet, not intentionally mind
you, but my viewing area contains many silver prints and inkjet prints. At
this point I have gotten used to looking at both types simultaneously and I
simply don't register the differences anymore unless I make a conscious
effort.

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> Martin, thanks I'll try it. I've been looking at dig prints for so long,
> seeing high quality wet prints blew me away. BTW I showed Pablo a large
copy
> of Mike's tramp printed full width on his 7000, 'hijo de puta' was the
> response. I'm always a bit sheepish about showing that print of Mike's
> because the scan/print blows my stuff out of the water. Drum scanned big
> prints can't be beaten IMO.
>
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>
>
> > Julian,
> >
> > Get some good quality acrylic varnish from an art store designed for
> > varnishing paintings. I think Golden is the best but I don't know what
you
> > will find available. Get a good varnish brush. Dilute the varnish at
least
> > 1:1 or 1:2 with water (preferably distilled) and paint it on the print.
> > Figure about 3 coats. The biggest problem will be brush strokes until
you
> > perfect the application but you will get a good general feel for what a
> > coated print will look like right away and will be able to see if this
is
> > something you want to pursue. Remember they dry down just like a wet
> print.
> >
> > There is info in the Files section and in the archives. Using the
> "Morrison
> > Mix" sealer. clean materials, a good brush and practice seem to be the
> keys
> > to getting it on smooth.
> >
> > Once the prints are under glass I doubt you could tell them from silver
> > except for the hue of the inks. As Robert posted earlier the Dmax
increase
> > definitely puts the better papers into silver range. Museo took the
> coating
> > the best I found. The heavily textured papers get a bit strange. Things
> like
> > German Etching and Torchon are not for everyone. Didn't try Photo Rag
but
> I
> > would expect it would do well.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> >
> >
> > > I've got Pablo Kolodny from Argentina satying with me at themoment. He
> is
> > > one hell of a wet printer and he has brought some prints/negs for me
to
> > try
> > > to match. It makes me realise how impossible it is for inkjet to match
> the
> > > glowing blacks of a semi or gloss wet print. maybe I should try the
> > coating
> > > approach, but seeing his stuff makes me want to hit the darkroom
again.
> > > Problem is that I'm a much better dig printer than wet! Inkjet wins
for
> me
> > > in the long, smooth midtones.
> > >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:30 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 4/3/02 10:20 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Stephen,
> > > > >
> > > > > You can go back in the archives and find the results of Robert's
> fade
> > > tests.
> > > > > As I recall fading and warm shifting were reduced by all coatings.
> > There
> > > was
> > > > > a much greater difference between coated and uncoated than between
> the
> > > > > specific coatings. The fade and warming were reduced by 50% in
> > > comparison to
> > > > > the uncoated prints as best as I recall.
> > > >
> > > > That's accurate.  Ozone testing is in progress with Epson 10000
> prints.
> > > >
> > > > > Coating the prints has a pronounce effect on their appearance. I
> have
> > > sent
> > > > > coated prints to several people and the general response was that
> they
> > > did
> > > > > not care for it. The increase in Dmax is very strong but the
surface
> > is
> > > much
> > > > > like a varnished oil painting in quality.
> > > >
> > > > Dmax increases in the coatings that I have worked with range from
0.4
> to
> > > 0.6
> > > > increase...essentially taking the prints from matte to gloss.  The
> > effect
> > > is
> > > > like a varnished oil painting.  Tones are more luminous.  I find
that
> > the
> > > > photos appear deeper.  The velvety finish is certainly gone.  These
> look
> > > > like gloss prints...but on archival paper...preserving the texture
of
> > the
> > > > paper.  Personally I love the look as do the people that I have
shown
> > the
> > > > prints to including several paper manufacturers.  If you do not like
> the
> > > > look of gloss prints, however, you are unlikely to like the look of
> the
> > > > coated prints. In the end each person will have to decide for
> themselves
> > > > whether they like the look...and that will probably vary from image
to
> > > image
> > > > and from paper to paper.
> > > >
> > > > > As a compromise I would suggest using one of the UV aerosol spray
> > > coatings.
> > > > > These do not change the appearance of the print if applied lightly
> but
> > > > > provide excellent mechanical protection and improve fade and
warming
> > > > > resistance as well.
> > > >
> > > > I find the sprays useless...no improvement in appearance...minimal
> > > > protection from light (too thin a coating) and they frequently ruin
> the
> > > > surface of the print. I have heard through the grapevine that Cone
has
> a
> > > > brush on coating that he uses to improve dmax, without changing the
> > > surface
> > > > of the print.  I don't know anything about this...other than he
sells
> it
> > > for
> > > > $400/gallon.  Personally, I'm highly skeptical that anything can
> > > > dramatically increase dmax without adding gloss.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also check into the coating being offered by MIS that is designed
to
> > be
> > > > > loaded into a printer. You run the print through to have a coating
> > > applied
> > > > > by inkjet. I have not seen the results of this process but it
sounds
> > > > > interesting. One of the biggest problems in coating prints was in
> > > getting an
> > > > > even, streak and dust free application. An inkjet application
might
> > > avoid
> > > > > all these issues and you could control how much was applied by
> > selecting
> > > > > something less than 100% "black" as the print color.
> > > >
> > > > It is unlikely that this would put down a thick enough coat.  Streak
> and
> > > > dust free application is not a problem with the right equipment.
> > > Honestly,
> > > > that's why I don't have a product out yet...it has taken nearly 9
> months
> > > of
> > > > experimenting to get the equipment right and perfect the
> > formulation...but
> > > > it is possible...and turns out to be easy with the right gunk and
> > > equipment.
> > > >
> > > > Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> > > > September...but no promises.  In the mean time I'm glad to take
> > questions.
> > > I
> > > > have coated prints going out into several print exchanges and both
> Crane
> > > > (Robert Rex) and Brightcube will be showing prints that I have beta
> > coated
> > > > on their papers in meetings around the country.  I believe that
Robert
> > Rex
> > > > is also intending to use them for in store displays of Museo.
Coated
> > > > PiezoBW Museo prints will knock your socks off if you like glossy
> > > > prints...they are really fantastic.
> > > >
> > > > Robert
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Stephen Kundell, MD" <skundell@...>
> > > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:53 PM
> > > > > Subject: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> It has been a while since the topic of coating has been
addressed.
> I
> > > know
> > > > > Robert and others were actively experimenting in this regard.  Has
> > > anyone
> > > > > come up with a system that works with large images, and truly
> prevents
> > > UV
> > > > > and ozone degradation similar to the benefit of framed images. I
> hate
> > > that
> > > > > glass between me and the image!!!!
> > > > >> Thanks all
> > > > >> Stephen
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls
> > > and
> > > > > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > >> - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
messages
> to
> > > keep
> > > > > them short.
> > > > >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > > header.
> > > > >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > > "flames."
> > > > >> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> > > various
> > > > > resources on the homepage.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls
> > and
> > > other
> > > > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > >
> > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> to
> > > keep
> > > > > them short.
> > > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > > header.
> > > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > > "flames."
> > > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> > various
> > > > > resources on the homepage.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> > > > Robert Morrison
> > > > rmorrison@...
> > > >
> > > > 310-397-2704
> > > >
> > > > 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> > > > Los Angeles, CA 90066
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and
> > > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >
> > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to
> > keep
> > > them short.
> > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > header.
> > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > "flames."
> > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various
> > > resources on the homepage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> > them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>