Digital BW, The Print

Stephen,

You can go back in the archives and find the results of Robert's fade tests.
As I recall fading and warm shifting were reduced by all coatings. There was
a much greater difference between coated and uncoated than between the
specific coatings. The fade and warming were reduced by 50% in comparison to
the uncoated prints as best as I recall.

I very much doubt that any coating (or frame and glass) will prevent all UV
effects. They can do a lot to reduce it but nothing is going to stop it
completely. Coating would seem to offer more air pollution protection, at
least in the brush applied tests, because so much soaked into the print I
believe the ink particles were probably somewhat encapsulated in the coating
resin. Not unlike Epson's resin encapsulated pigments.

Coating the prints has a pronounce effect on their appearance. I have sent
coated prints to several people and the general response was that they did
not care for it. The increase in Dmax is very strong but the surface is much
like a varnished oil painting in quality.

As a compromise I would suggest using one of the UV aerosol spray coatings.
These do not change the appearance of the print if applied lightly but
provide excellent mechanical protection and improve fade and warming
resistance as well.

Also check into the coating being offered by MIS that is designed to be
loaded into a printer. You run the print through to have a coating applied
by inkjet. I have not seen the results of this process but it sounds
interesting. One of the biggest problems in coating prints was in getting an
even, streak and dust free application. An inkjet application might avoid
all these issues and you could control how much was applied by selecting
something less than 100% "black" as the print color.

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Kundell, MD" <skundell@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:53 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> It has been a while since the topic of coating has been addressed. I know
Robert and others were actively experimenting in this regard.  Has anyone
come up with a system that works with large images, and truly prevents UV
and ozone degradation similar to the benefit of framed images. I hate that
glass between me and the image!!!!
> Thanks all
> Stephen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

On 4/3/02 10:20 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:

> Stephen,
> 
> You can go back in the archives and find the results of Robert's fade tests.
> As I recall fading and warm shifting were reduced by all coatings. There was
> a much greater difference between coated and uncoated than between the
> specific coatings. The fade and warming were reduced by 50% in comparison to
> the uncoated prints as best as I recall.

That's accurate.  Ozone testing is in progress with Epson 10000 prints.

> Coating the prints has a pronounce effect on their appearance. I have sent
> coated prints to several people and the general response was that they did
> not care for it. The increase in Dmax is very strong but the surface is much
> like a varnished oil painting in quality.

Dmax increases in the coatings that I have worked with range from 0.4 to 0.6
increase...essentially taking the prints from matte to gloss.  The effect is
like a varnished oil painting.  Tones are more luminous.  I find that the
photos appear deeper.  The velvety finish is certainly gone.  These look
like gloss prints...but on archival paper...preserving the texture of the
paper.  Personally I love the look as do the people that I have shown the
prints to including several paper manufacturers.  If you do not like the
look of gloss prints, however, you are unlikely to like the look of the
coated prints. In the end each person will have to decide for themselves
whether they like the look...and that will probably vary from image to image
and from paper to paper.

> As a compromise I would suggest using one of the UV aerosol spray coatings.
> These do not change the appearance of the print if applied lightly but
> provide excellent mechanical protection and improve fade and warming
> resistance as well.

I find the sprays useless...no improvement in appearance...minimal
protection from light (too thin a coating) and they frequently ruin the
surface of the print. I have heard through the grapevine that Cone has a
brush on coating that he uses to improve dmax, without changing the surface
of the print.  I don't know anything about this...other than he sells it for
$400/gallon.  Personally, I'm highly skeptical that anything can
dramatically increase dmax without adding gloss.
> 
> Also check into the coating being offered by MIS that is designed to be
> loaded into a printer. You run the print through to have a coating applied
> by inkjet. I have not seen the results of this process but it sounds
> interesting. One of the biggest problems in coating prints was in getting an
> even, streak and dust free application. An inkjet application might avoid
> all these issues and you could control how much was applied by selecting
> something less than 100% "black" as the print color.

It is unlikely that this would put down a thick enough coat.  Streak and
dust free application is not a problem with the right equipment.  Honestly,
that's why I don't have a product out yet...it has taken nearly 9 months of
experimenting to get the equipment right and perfect the formulation...but
it is possible...and turns out to be easy with the right gunk and equipment.

Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
September...but no promises.  In the mean time I'm glad to take questions. I
have coated prints going out into several print exchanges and both Crane
(Robert Rex) and Brightcube will be showing prints that I have beta coated
on their papers in meetings around the country.  I believe that Robert Rex
is also intending to use them for in store displays of Museo.  Coated
PiezoBW Museo prints will knock your socks off if you like glossy
prints...they are really fantastic.

Robert

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Kundell, MD" <skundell@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:53 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> 
> 
>> It has been a while since the topic of coating has been addressed. I know
> Robert and others were actively experimenting in this regard.  Has anyone
> come up with a system that works with large images, and truly prevents UV
> and ozone degradation similar to the benefit of framed images. I hate that
> glass between me and the image!!!!
>> Thanks all
>> Stephen
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

I've got Pablo Kolodny from Argentina satying with me at themoment. He is
one hell of a wet printer and he has brought some prints/negs for me to try
to match. It makes me realise how impossible it is for inkjet to match the
glowing blacks of a semi or gloss wet print. maybe I should try the coating
approach, but seeing his stuff makes me want to hit the darkroom again.
Problem is that I'm a much better dig printer than wet! Inkjet wins for me
in the long, smooth midtones.

Julian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> On 4/3/02 10:20 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:
>
> > Stephen,
> >
> > You can go back in the archives and find the results of Robert's fade
tests.
> > As I recall fading and warm shifting were reduced by all coatings. There
was
> > a much greater difference between coated and uncoated than between the
> > specific coatings. The fade and warming were reduced by 50% in
comparison to
> > the uncoated prints as best as I recall.
>
> That's accurate.  Ozone testing is in progress with Epson 10000 prints.
>
> > Coating the prints has a pronounce effect on their appearance. I have
sent
> > coated prints to several people and the general response was that they
did
> > not care for it. The increase in Dmax is very strong but the surface is
much
> > like a varnished oil painting in quality.
>
> Dmax increases in the coatings that I have worked with range from 0.4 to
0.6
> increase...essentially taking the prints from matte to gloss.  The effect
is
> like a varnished oil painting.  Tones are more luminous.  I find that the
> photos appear deeper.  The velvety finish is certainly gone.  These look
> like gloss prints...but on archival paper...preserving the texture of the
> paper.  Personally I love the look as do the people that I have shown the
> prints to including several paper manufacturers.  If you do not like the
> look of gloss prints, however, you are unlikely to like the look of the
> coated prints. In the end each person will have to decide for themselves
> whether they like the look...and that will probably vary from image to
image
> and from paper to paper.
>
> > As a compromise I would suggest using one of the UV aerosol spray
coatings.
> > These do not change the appearance of the print if applied lightly but
> > provide excellent mechanical protection and improve fade and warming
> > resistance as well.
>
> I find the sprays useless...no improvement in appearance...minimal
> protection from light (too thin a coating) and they frequently ruin the
> surface of the print. I have heard through the grapevine that Cone has a
> brush on coating that he uses to improve dmax, without changing the
surface
> of the print.  I don't know anything about this...other than he sells it
for
> $400/gallon.  Personally, I'm highly skeptical that anything can
> dramatically increase dmax without adding gloss.
> >
> > Also check into the coating being offered by MIS that is designed to be
> > loaded into a printer. You run the print through to have a coating
applied
> > by inkjet. I have not seen the results of this process but it sounds
> > interesting. One of the biggest problems in coating prints was in
getting an
> > even, streak and dust free application. An inkjet application might
avoid
> > all these issues and you could control how much was applied by selecting
> > something less than 100% "black" as the print color.
>
> It is unlikely that this would put down a thick enough coat.  Streak and
> dust free application is not a problem with the right equipment.
Honestly,
> that's why I don't have a product out yet...it has taken nearly 9 months
of
> experimenting to get the equipment right and perfect the formulation...but
> it is possible...and turns out to be easy with the right gunk and
equipment.
>
> Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> September...but no promises.  In the mean time I'm glad to take questions.
I
> have coated prints going out into several print exchanges and both Crane
> (Robert Rex) and Brightcube will be showing prints that I have beta coated
> on their papers in meetings around the country.  I believe that Robert Rex
> is also intending to use them for in store displays of Museo.  Coated
> PiezoBW Museo prints will knock your socks off if you like glossy
> prints...they are really fantastic.
>
> Robert
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephen Kundell, MD" <skundell@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:53 PM
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> >
> >
> >> It has been a while since the topic of coating has been addressed. I
know
> > Robert and others were actively experimenting in this regard.  Has
anyone
> > come up with a system that works with large images, and truly prevents
UV
> > and ozone degradation similar to the benefit of framed images. I hate
that
> > glass between me and the image!!!!
> >> Thanks all
> >> Stephen
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >>
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>
> >> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >> - Include your full name with your message.
> >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> > them short.
> >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> >> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------
> Robert Morrison
> rmorrison@...
>
> 310-397-2704
>
> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 90066
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Julian,

Get some good quality acrylic varnish from an art store designed for
varnishing paintings. I think Golden is the best but I don't know what you
will find available. Get a good varnish brush. Dilute the varnish at least
1:1 or 1:2 with water (preferably distilled) and paint it on the print.
Figure about 3 coats. The biggest problem will be brush strokes until you
perfect the application but you will get a good general feel for what a
coated print will look like right away and will be able to see if this is
something you want to pursue. Remember they dry down just like a wet print.

There is info in the Files section and in the archives. Using the "Morrison
Mix" sealer. clean materials, a good brush and practice seem to be the keys
to getting it on smooth.

Once the prints are under glass I doubt you could tell them from silver
except for the hue of the inks. As Robert posted earlier the Dmax increase
definitely puts the better papers into silver range. Museo took the coating
the best I found. The heavily textured papers get a bit strange. Things like
German Etching and Torchon are not for everyone. Didn't try Photo Rag but I
would expect it would do well.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> I've got Pablo Kolodny from Argentina satying with me at themoment. He is
> one hell of a wet printer and he has brought some prints/negs for me to
try
> to match. It makes me realise how impossible it is for inkjet to match the
> glowing blacks of a semi or gloss wet print. maybe I should try the
coating
> approach, but seeing his stuff makes me want to hit the darkroom again.
> Problem is that I'm a much better dig printer than wet! Inkjet wins for me
> in the long, smooth midtones.
>
> Julian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>
>
> > On 4/3/02 10:20 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Stephen,
> > >
> > > You can go back in the archives and find the results of Robert's fade
> tests.
> > > As I recall fading and warm shifting were reduced by all coatings.
There
> was
> > > a much greater difference between coated and uncoated than between the
> > > specific coatings. The fade and warming were reduced by 50% in
> comparison to
> > > the uncoated prints as best as I recall.
> >
> > That's accurate.  Ozone testing is in progress with Epson 10000 prints.
> >
> > > Coating the prints has a pronounce effect on their appearance. I have
> sent
> > > coated prints to several people and the general response was that they
> did
> > > not care for it. The increase in Dmax is very strong but the surface
is
> much
> > > like a varnished oil painting in quality.
> >
> > Dmax increases in the coatings that I have worked with range from 0.4 to
> 0.6
> > increase...essentially taking the prints from matte to gloss.  The
effect
> is
> > like a varnished oil painting.  Tones are more luminous.  I find that
the
> > photos appear deeper.  The velvety finish is certainly gone.  These look
> > like gloss prints...but on archival paper...preserving the texture of
the
> > paper.  Personally I love the look as do the people that I have shown
the
> > prints to including several paper manufacturers.  If you do not like the
> > look of gloss prints, however, you are unlikely to like the look of the
> > coated prints. In the end each person will have to decide for themselves
> > whether they like the look...and that will probably vary from image to
> image
> > and from paper to paper.
> >
> > > As a compromise I would suggest using one of the UV aerosol spray
> coatings.
> > > These do not change the appearance of the print if applied lightly but
> > > provide excellent mechanical protection and improve fade and warming
> > > resistance as well.
> >
> > I find the sprays useless...no improvement in appearance...minimal
> > protection from light (too thin a coating) and they frequently ruin the
> > surface of the print. I have heard through the grapevine that Cone has a
> > brush on coating that he uses to improve dmax, without changing the
> surface
> > of the print.  I don't know anything about this...other than he sells it
> for
> > $400/gallon.  Personally, I'm highly skeptical that anything can
> > dramatically increase dmax without adding gloss.
> > >
> > > Also check into the coating being offered by MIS that is designed to
be
> > > loaded into a printer. You run the print through to have a coating
> applied
> > > by inkjet. I have not seen the results of this process but it sounds
> > > interesting. One of the biggest problems in coating prints was in
> getting an
> > > even, streak and dust free application. An inkjet application might
> avoid
> > > all these issues and you could control how much was applied by
selecting
> > > something less than 100% "black" as the print color.
> >
> > It is unlikely that this would put down a thick enough coat.  Streak and
> > dust free application is not a problem with the right equipment.
> Honestly,
> > that's why I don't have a product out yet...it has taken nearly 9 months
> of
> > experimenting to get the equipment right and perfect the
formulation...but
> > it is possible...and turns out to be easy with the right gunk and
> equipment.
> >
> > Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> > September...but no promises.  In the mean time I'm glad to take
questions.
> I
> > have coated prints going out into several print exchanges and both Crane
> > (Robert Rex) and Brightcube will be showing prints that I have beta
coated
> > on their papers in meetings around the country.  I believe that Robert
Rex
> > is also intending to use them for in store displays of Museo.  Coated
> > PiezoBW Museo prints will knock your socks off if you like glossy
> > prints...they are really fantastic.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Stephen Kundell, MD" <skundell@...>
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:53 PM
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> > >
> > >
> > >> It has been a while since the topic of coating has been addressed. I
> know
> > > Robert and others were actively experimenting in this regard.  Has
> anyone
> > > come up with a system that works with large images, and truly prevents
> UV
> > > and ozone degradation similar to the benefit of framed images. I hate
> that
> > > glass between me and the image!!!!
> > >> Thanks all
> > >> Stephen
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and
> > > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >>
> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >>
> > >> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > >> - Include your full name with your message.
> > >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> > > them short.
> > >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> > >> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various
> > > resources on the homepage.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> other
> > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> > > them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > > resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > Robert Morrison
> > rmorrison@...
> >
> > 310-397-2704
> >
> > 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> > Los Angeles, CA 90066
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Martin, thanks I'll try it. I've been looking at dig prints for so long,
seeing high quality wet prints blew me away. BTW I showed Pablo a large copy
of Mike's tramp printed full width on his 7000, 'hijo de puta' was the
response. I'm always a bit sheepish about showing that print of Mike's
because the scan/print blows my stuff out of the water. Drum scanned big
prints can't be beaten IMO.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> Julian,
>
> Get some good quality acrylic varnish from an art store designed for
> varnishing paintings. I think Golden is the best but I don't know what you
> will find available. Get a good varnish brush. Dilute the varnish at least
> 1:1 or 1:2 with water (preferably distilled) and paint it on the print.
> Figure about 3 coats. The biggest problem will be brush strokes until you
> perfect the application but you will get a good general feel for what a
> coated print will look like right away and will be able to see if this is
> something you want to pursue. Remember they dry down just like a wet
print.
>
> There is info in the Files section and in the archives. Using the
"Morrison
> Mix" sealer. clean materials, a good brush and practice seem to be the
keys
> to getting it on smooth.
>
> Once the prints are under glass I doubt you could tell them from silver
> except for the hue of the inks. As Robert posted earlier the Dmax increase
> definitely puts the better papers into silver range. Museo took the
coating
> the best I found. The heavily textured papers get a bit strange. Things
like
> German Etching and Torchon are not for everyone. Didn't try Photo Rag but
I
> would expect it would do well.
>
> Martin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>
>
> > I've got Pablo Kolodny from Argentina satying with me at themoment. He
is
> > one hell of a wet printer and he has brought some prints/negs for me to
> try
> > to match. It makes me realise how impossible it is for inkjet to match
the
> > glowing blacks of a semi or gloss wet print. maybe I should try the
> coating
> > approach, but seeing his stuff makes me want to hit the darkroom again.
> > Problem is that I'm a much better dig printer than wet! Inkjet wins for
me
> > in the long, smooth midtones.
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:30 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> >
> >
> > > On 4/3/02 10:20 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Stephen,
> > > >
> > > > You can go back in the archives and find the results of Robert's
fade
> > tests.
> > > > As I recall fading and warm shifting were reduced by all coatings.
> There
> > was
> > > > a much greater difference between coated and uncoated than between
the
> > > > specific coatings. The fade and warming were reduced by 50% in
> > comparison to
> > > > the uncoated prints as best as I recall.
> > >
> > > That's accurate.  Ozone testing is in progress with Epson 10000
prints.
> > >
> > > > Coating the prints has a pronounce effect on their appearance. I
have
> > sent
> > > > coated prints to several people and the general response was that
they
> > did
> > > > not care for it. The increase in Dmax is very strong but the surface
> is
> > much
> > > > like a varnished oil painting in quality.
> > >
> > > Dmax increases in the coatings that I have worked with range from 0.4
to
> > 0.6
> > > increase...essentially taking the prints from matte to gloss.  The
> effect
> > is
> > > like a varnished oil painting.  Tones are more luminous.  I find that
> the
> > > photos appear deeper.  The velvety finish is certainly gone.  These
look
> > > like gloss prints...but on archival paper...preserving the texture of
> the
> > > paper.  Personally I love the look as do the people that I have shown
> the
> > > prints to including several paper manufacturers.  If you do not like
the
> > > look of gloss prints, however, you are unlikely to like the look of
the
> > > coated prints. In the end each person will have to decide for
themselves
> > > whether they like the look...and that will probably vary from image to
> > image
> > > and from paper to paper.
> > >
> > > > As a compromise I would suggest using one of the UV aerosol spray
> > coatings.
> > > > These do not change the appearance of the print if applied lightly
but
> > > > provide excellent mechanical protection and improve fade and warming
> > > > resistance as well.
> > >
> > > I find the sprays useless...no improvement in appearance...minimal
> > > protection from light (too thin a coating) and they frequently ruin
the
> > > surface of the print. I have heard through the grapevine that Cone has
a
> > > brush on coating that he uses to improve dmax, without changing the
> > surface
> > > of the print.  I don't know anything about this...other than he sells
it
> > for
> > > $400/gallon.  Personally, I'm highly skeptical that anything can
> > > dramatically increase dmax without adding gloss.
> > > >
> > > > Also check into the coating being offered by MIS that is designed to
> be
> > > > loaded into a printer. You run the print through to have a coating
> > applied
> > > > by inkjet. I have not seen the results of this process but it sounds
> > > > interesting. One of the biggest problems in coating prints was in
> > getting an
> > > > even, streak and dust free application. An inkjet application might
> > avoid
> > > > all these issues and you could control how much was applied by
> selecting
> > > > something less than 100% "black" as the print color.
> > >
> > > It is unlikely that this would put down a thick enough coat.  Streak
and
> > > dust free application is not a problem with the right equipment.
> > Honestly,
> > > that's why I don't have a product out yet...it has taken nearly 9
months
> > of
> > > experimenting to get the equipment right and perfect the
> formulation...but
> > > it is possible...and turns out to be easy with the right gunk and
> > equipment.
> > >
> > > Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> > > September...but no promises.  In the mean time I'm glad to take
> questions.
> > I
> > > have coated prints going out into several print exchanges and both
Crane
> > > (Robert Rex) and Brightcube will be showing prints that I have beta
> coated
> > > on their papers in meetings around the country.  I believe that Robert
> Rex
> > > is also intending to use them for in store displays of Museo.  Coated
> > > PiezoBW Museo prints will knock your socks off if you like glossy
> > > prints...they are really fantastic.
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Stephen Kundell, MD" <skundell@...>
> > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:53 PM
> > > > Subject: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> It has been a while since the topic of coating has been addressed.
I
> > know
> > > > Robert and others were actively experimenting in this regard.  Has
> > anyone
> > > > come up with a system that works with large images, and truly
prevents
> > UV
> > > > and ozone degradation similar to the benefit of framed images. I
hate
> > that
> > > > glass between me and the image!!!!
> > > >> Thanks all
> > > >> Stephen
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls
> > and
> > > > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >>
> > > >> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > >> - Include your full name with your message.
> > > >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to
> > keep
> > > > them short.
> > > >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > header.
> > > >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > "flames."
> > > >> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> > various
> > > > resources on the homepage.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and
> > other
> > > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >
> > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to
> > keep
> > > > them short.
> > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > header.
> > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > "flames."
> > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various
> > > > resources on the homepage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > Robert Morrison
> > > rmorrison@...
> > >
> > > 310-397-2704
> > >
> > > 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> > > Los Angeles, CA 90066
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> > them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Julian,

One thing I have done since I started with inkjet, not intentionally mind
you, but my viewing area contains many silver prints and inkjet prints. At
this point I have gotten used to looking at both types simultaneously and I
simply don't register the differences anymore unless I make a conscious
effort.

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> Martin, thanks I'll try it. I've been looking at dig prints for so long,
> seeing high quality wet prints blew me away. BTW I showed Pablo a large
copy
> of Mike's tramp printed full width on his 7000, 'hijo de puta' was the
> response. I'm always a bit sheepish about showing that print of Mike's
> because the scan/print blows my stuff out of the water. Drum scanned big
> prints can't be beaten IMO.
>
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>
>
> > Julian,
> >
> > Get some good quality acrylic varnish from an art store designed for
> > varnishing paintings. I think Golden is the best but I don't know what
you
> > will find available. Get a good varnish brush. Dilute the varnish at
least
> > 1:1 or 1:2 with water (preferably distilled) and paint it on the print.
> > Figure about 3 coats. The biggest problem will be brush strokes until
you
> > perfect the application but you will get a good general feel for what a
> > coated print will look like right away and will be able to see if this
is
> > something you want to pursue. Remember they dry down just like a wet
> print.
> >
> > There is info in the Files section and in the archives. Using the
> "Morrison
> > Mix" sealer. clean materials, a good brush and practice seem to be the
> keys
> > to getting it on smooth.
> >
> > Once the prints are under glass I doubt you could tell them from silver
> > except for the hue of the inks. As Robert posted earlier the Dmax
increase
> > definitely puts the better papers into silver range. Museo took the
> coating
> > the best I found. The heavily textured papers get a bit strange. Things
> like
> > German Etching and Torchon are not for everyone. Didn't try Photo Rag
but
> I
> > would expect it would do well.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> >
> >
> > > I've got Pablo Kolodny from Argentina satying with me at themoment. He
> is
> > > one hell of a wet printer and he has brought some prints/negs for me
to
> > try
> > > to match. It makes me realise how impossible it is for inkjet to match
> the
> > > glowing blacks of a semi or gloss wet print. maybe I should try the
> > coating
> > > approach, but seeing his stuff makes me want to hit the darkroom
again.
> > > Problem is that I'm a much better dig printer than wet! Inkjet wins
for
> me
> > > in the long, smooth midtones.
> > >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:30 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 4/3/02 10:20 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Stephen,
> > > > >
> > > > > You can go back in the archives and find the results of Robert's
> fade
> > > tests.
> > > > > As I recall fading and warm shifting were reduced by all coatings.
> > There
> > > was
> > > > > a much greater difference between coated and uncoated than between
> the
> > > > > specific coatings. The fade and warming were reduced by 50% in
> > > comparison to
> > > > > the uncoated prints as best as I recall.
> > > >
> > > > That's accurate.  Ozone testing is in progress with Epson 10000
> prints.
> > > >
> > > > > Coating the prints has a pronounce effect on their appearance. I
> have
> > > sent
> > > > > coated prints to several people and the general response was that
> they
> > > did
> > > > > not care for it. The increase in Dmax is very strong but the
surface
> > is
> > > much
> > > > > like a varnished oil painting in quality.
> > > >
> > > > Dmax increases in the coatings that I have worked with range from
0.4
> to
> > > 0.6
> > > > increase...essentially taking the prints from matte to gloss.  The
> > effect
> > > is
> > > > like a varnished oil painting.  Tones are more luminous.  I find
that
> > the
> > > > photos appear deeper.  The velvety finish is certainly gone.  These
> look
> > > > like gloss prints...but on archival paper...preserving the texture
of
> > the
> > > > paper.  Personally I love the look as do the people that I have
shown
> > the
> > > > prints to including several paper manufacturers.  If you do not like
> the
> > > > look of gloss prints, however, you are unlikely to like the look of
> the
> > > > coated prints. In the end each person will have to decide for
> themselves
> > > > whether they like the look...and that will probably vary from image
to
> > > image
> > > > and from paper to paper.
> > > >
> > > > > As a compromise I would suggest using one of the UV aerosol spray
> > > coatings.
> > > > > These do not change the appearance of the print if applied lightly
> but
> > > > > provide excellent mechanical protection and improve fade and
warming
> > > > > resistance as well.
> > > >
> > > > I find the sprays useless...no improvement in appearance...minimal
> > > > protection from light (too thin a coating) and they frequently ruin
> the
> > > > surface of the print. I have heard through the grapevine that Cone
has
> a
> > > > brush on coating that he uses to improve dmax, without changing the
> > > surface
> > > > of the print.  I don't know anything about this...other than he
sells
> it
> > > for
> > > > $400/gallon.  Personally, I'm highly skeptical that anything can
> > > > dramatically increase dmax without adding gloss.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also check into the coating being offered by MIS that is designed
to
> > be
> > > > > loaded into a printer. You run the print through to have a coating
> > > applied
> > > > > by inkjet. I have not seen the results of this process but it
sounds
> > > > > interesting. One of the biggest problems in coating prints was in
> > > getting an
> > > > > even, streak and dust free application. An inkjet application
might
> > > avoid
> > > > > all these issues and you could control how much was applied by
> > selecting
> > > > > something less than 100% "black" as the print color.
> > > >
> > > > It is unlikely that this would put down a thick enough coat.  Streak
> and
> > > > dust free application is not a problem with the right equipment.
> > > Honestly,
> > > > that's why I don't have a product out yet...it has taken nearly 9
> months
> > > of
> > > > experimenting to get the equipment right and perfect the
> > formulation...but
> > > > it is possible...and turns out to be easy with the right gunk and
> > > equipment.
> > > >
> > > > Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> > > > September...but no promises.  In the mean time I'm glad to take
> > questions.
> > > I
> > > > have coated prints going out into several print exchanges and both
> Crane
> > > > (Robert Rex) and Brightcube will be showing prints that I have beta
> > coated
> > > > on their papers in meetings around the country.  I believe that
Robert
> > Rex
> > > > is also intending to use them for in store displays of Museo.
Coated
> > > > PiezoBW Museo prints will knock your socks off if you like glossy
> > > > prints...they are really fantastic.
> > > >
> > > > Robert
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Stephen Kundell, MD" <skundell@...>
> > > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:53 PM
> > > > > Subject: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> It has been a while since the topic of coating has been
addressed.
> I
> > > know
> > > > > Robert and others were actively experimenting in this regard.  Has
> > > anyone
> > > > > come up with a system that works with large images, and truly
> prevents
> > > UV
> > > > > and ozone degradation similar to the benefit of framed images. I
> hate
> > > that
> > > > > glass between me and the image!!!!
> > > > >> Thanks all
> > > > >> Stephen
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls
> > > and
> > > > > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > >> - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
messages
> to
> > > keep
> > > > > them short.
> > > > >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > > header.
> > > > >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > > "flames."
> > > > >> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> > > various
> > > > > resources on the homepage.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls
> > and
> > > other
> > > > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > >
> > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> to
> > > keep
> > > > > them short.
> > > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > > header.
> > > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > > "flames."
> > > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> > various
> > > > > resources on the homepage.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> > > > Robert Morrison
> > > > rmorrison@...
> > > >
> > > > 310-397-2704
> > > >
> > > > 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> > > > Los Angeles, CA 90066
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and
> > > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >
> > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to
> > keep
> > > them short.
> > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > header.
> > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > "flames."
> > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various
> > > resources on the homepage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> > them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
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> "flames."
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> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
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>
>

At 10:00 AM 4/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Julian,
>
>One thing I have done since I started with inkjet, not intentionally mind
>you, but my viewing area contains many silver prints and inkjet prints. At
>this point I have gotten used to looking at both types simultaneously and I
>simply don't register the differences anymore unless I make a conscious
>effort.
>
>Martin
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
>To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:18 AM
>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>
>

Julian,

I have found that one-to-one qualitative differences aside, Some silver
prints just "work" better than their digital versions. I use only 35mm
materials so have that perspective on how much to expect from the format.
Digital appears sharper and a broader range of tones can be had more easily
with it. It has a tough time with fine textures (forget about nice grain) -
the obverse of sharpness. Gloss paper only seems blacker generally because
the eye is trying to regester contrasty non-image reflections. What I miss
in the matte print is the material quality of gelatine coating. That simple
aesthetic value is I believe what most find important and lacking in carbon
ink digital prints - much more than other perceived and real tonal range
shortcomings.

As an example I have been trying to make a good print of an urban scene in a
rain storm. It just plain looks weird as a digital print. The fine mist and
rain drops turn to gravel-like textures. I have scanned and interpolated and
messed with it a bunch but it never looks "right". The silver-print looks
great even with less tonal range - the semi-gloss paper adds to the
character of the image too. 

AZ
Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/8874/
         or
keyword.com lookaround

Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran gray
wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.  I
printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an uncoated
dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated the
dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints have a
high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.

In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on gloss
papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.

For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you owe it
to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints that
you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really like
this.

Robert


On 4/10/02 1:51 PM, "Richard Wolfson" <richard@...> wrote:

> hi Robert -
> 
> oh, ok. I understand now. I saw the September part, but figured I'd just
> missed some prior postings on method. I didn't get that it's
> proprietary. That's cool.
> 
> If you're maintaining an email list for a product announcement, I'd be
> pleased if you'd add mine. Good luck, and thanks for getting back to me.
> 
> Richard
> 
> Richard Wolfson
> fine art photographer and printmaker
> (978) 456-3033
> www.rwolfson.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:43 PM
>> To: Richard Wolfson
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>> 
>> 
>> As I said below...
>> 
>>>> Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
>>>> September...but no promises.
>> 
>> Until that time I can't say anything about my process or
>> materials...I'm under a non-disclosure agreement.  All I can
>> tell you is what to expect in performance...also below.  If
>> you would like to see a coated print...I'm sending them out
>> through the Piezo and DigitalBW exchanges over the next
>> several months.  Robert Rex also has sample prints of Museo
>> coated. Brightcube will also be traveling with coated Eclipse
>> prints soon.
>> 
>> Sorry I can't be more helpful.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

Is this your own coating that you're using? Any suggestions about 
what works best among the coatings that are commercially available? 
I'd like to try coating some time, but am put off by the prospect of 
having to purchase several different ingredients and then mixing, 
measuring, etc.

Chris Hargens

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Robert Morrison 
<rmorrison@p...> wrote:
> Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran 
gray
> wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these 
days.  I
> printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an 
uncoated
> dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are 
coated the
> dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints 
have a
> high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
> 
> In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints 
on gloss
> papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
> 
> For those of you have been experimenting with coatings 
(Martin)...you owe it
> to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the 
prints that
> you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really 
like
> this.
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> On 4/10/02 1:51 PM, "Richard Wolfson" <richard@r...> wrote:
> 
> > hi Robert -
> > 
> > oh, ok. I understand now. I saw the September part, but figured 
I'd just
> > missed some prior postings on method. I didn't get that it's
> > proprietary. That's cool.
> > 
> > If you're maintaining an email list for a product announcement, 
I'd be
> > pleased if you'd add mine. Good luck, and thanks for getting back 
to me.

> > 
> > Richard
> > 
> > Richard Wolfson
> > fine art photographer and printmaker
> > (978) 456-3033
> > www.rwolfson.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@p...]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:43 PM
> >> To: Richard Wolfson
> >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> >> 
> >> 
> >> As I said below...
> >> 
> >>>> Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> >>>> September...but no promises.
> >> 
> >> Until that time I can't say anything about my process or
> >> materials...I'm under a non-disclosure agreement.  All I can
> >> tell you is what to expect in performance...also below.  If
> >> you would like to see a coated print...I'm sending them out
> >> through the Piezo and DigitalBW exchanges over the next
> >> several months.  Robert Rex also has sample prints of Museo
> >> coated. Brightcube will also be traveling with coated Eclipse
> >> prints soon.
> >> 
> >> Sorry I can't be more helpful.
> >> 
> >> Robert
> >> 
> 
> ----------------------
> Robert Morrison
> rmorrison@p...
> 
> 310-397-2704
> 
> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 90066

Robert,

I did try coating some Eclipse last summer and the results we good but my
brush work was lacking. I found it harder to work with in the area of
streaking, etc. I realize that the paper may have changed since then.

I am not surprised that you got a better Dmax using the Epson driver. I
noticed long ago it gave deeper blacks than the Piezo driver even with the
Piezo inks.

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran gray
> wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.  I
> printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
uncoated
> dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated the
> dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints have a
> high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
>
> In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on gloss
> papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
>
> For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you owe
it
> to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints that
> you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really like
> this.
>
> Robert
>
>
> On 4/10/02 1:51 PM, "Richard Wolfson" <richard@...> wrote:
>
> > hi Robert -
> >
> > oh, ok. I understand now. I saw the September part, but figured I'd just
> > missed some prior postings on method. I didn't get that it's
> > proprietary. That's cool.
> >
> > If you're maintaining an email list for a product announcement, I'd be
> > pleased if you'd add mine. Good luck, and thanks for getting back to me.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > Richard Wolfson
> > fine art photographer and printmaker
> > (978) 456-3033
> > www.rwolfson.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:43 PM
> >> To: Richard Wolfson
> >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> >>
> >>
> >> As I said below...
> >>
> >>>> Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> >>>> September...but no promises.
> >>
> >> Until that time I can't say anything about my process or
> >> materials...I'm under a non-disclosure agreement.  All I can
> >> tell you is what to expect in performance...also below.  If
> >> you would like to see a coated print...I'm sending them out
> >> through the Piezo and DigitalBW exchanges over the next
> >> several months.  Robert Rex also has sample prints of Museo
> >> coated. Brightcube will also be traveling with coated Eclipse
> >> prints soon.
> >>
> >> Sorry I can't be more helpful.
> >>
> >> Robert
> >>
>
> ----------------------
> Robert Morrison
> rmorrison@...
>
> 310-397-2704
>
> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 90066
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Martin, is it possible to use a spray bottle of some kind?

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> Robert,
>
> I did try coating some Eclipse last summer and the results we good but my
> brush work was lacking. I found it harder to work with in the area of
> streaking, etc. I realize that the paper may have changed since then.
>
> I am not surprised that you got a better Dmax using the Epson driver. I
> noticed long ago it gave deeper blacks than the Piezo driver even with the
> Piezo inks.
>
> Martin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>
>
> > Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran gray
> > wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.  I
> > printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
> uncoated
> > dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated
the
> > dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints have
a
> > high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
> >
> > In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on
gloss
> > papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
> >
> > For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you
owe
> it
> > to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints
that
> > you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really like
> > this.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > On 4/10/02 1:51 PM, "Richard Wolfson" <richard@...> wrote:
> >
> > > hi Robert -
> > >
> > > oh, ok. I understand now. I saw the September part, but figured I'd
just
> > > missed some prior postings on method. I didn't get that it's
> > > proprietary. That's cool.
> > >
> > > If you're maintaining an email list for a product announcement, I'd be
> > > pleased if you'd add mine. Good luck, and thanks for getting back to
me.
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> > > Richard Wolfson
> > > fine art photographer and printmaker
> > > (978) 456-3033
> > > www.rwolfson.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:43 PM
> > >> To: Richard Wolfson
> > >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> As I said below...
> > >>
> > >>>> Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> > >>>> September...but no promises.
> > >>
> > >> Until that time I can't say anything about my process or
> > >> materials...I'm under a non-disclosure agreement.  All I can
> > >> tell you is what to expect in performance...also below.  If
> > >> you would like to see a coated print...I'm sending them out
> > >> through the Piezo and DigitalBW exchanges over the next
> > >> several months.  Robert Rex also has sample prints of Museo
> > >> coated. Brightcube will also be traveling with coated Eclipse
> > >> prints soon.
> > >>
> > >> Sorry I can't be more helpful.
> > >>
> > >> Robert
> > >>
> >
> > ----------------------
> > Robert Morrison
> > rmorrison@...
> >
> > 310-397-2704
> >
> > 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> > Los Angeles, CA 90066
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Robert,

Which coating are you using? Golden?

Also, do you get brush strokes?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran gray
> wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.  I
> printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
uncoated
> dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated the
> dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints have a
> high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
>
> In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on gloss
> papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
>
> For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you owe
it

> to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints that
> you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really like
> this.
>
> Robert

No, you need a thicker coat than sprays provide.  The key is to get the
pigment and paper saturated...then with successive coats you build up a
smooth film that sits on top of the paper/print.  The thicker the film the
glosser the print becomes.  Its just like varnishing a painting.

Robert

On 4/11/02 2:01 PM, "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...> wrote:

> Martin, is it possible to use a spray bottle of some kind?
> 
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> 
> 
>> Robert,
>> 
>> I did try coating some Eclipse last summer and the results we good but my
>> brush work was lacking. I found it harder to work with in the area of
>> streaking, etc. I realize that the paper may have changed since then.
>> 
>> I am not surprised that you got a better Dmax using the Epson driver. I
>> noticed long ago it gave deeper blacks than the Piezo driver even with the
>> Piezo inks.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>> 
>> 
>>> Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran gray
>>> wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.  I
>>> printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
>> uncoated
>>> dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated
> the
>>> dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints have
> a
>>> high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
>>> 
>>> In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on
> gloss
>>> papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
>>> 
>>> For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you
> owe
>> it
>>> to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints
> that
>>> you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really like
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Robert
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/10/02 1:51 PM, "Richard Wolfson" <richard@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> hi Robert -
>>>> 
>>>> oh, ok. I understand now. I saw the September part, but figured I'd
> just
>>>> missed some prior postings on method. I didn't get that it's
>>>> proprietary. That's cool.
>>>> 
>>>> If you're maintaining an email list for a product announcement, I'd be
>>>> pleased if you'd add mine. Good luck, and thanks for getting back to
> me.
>>>> 
>>>> Richard
>>>> 
>>>> Richard Wolfson
>>>> fine art photographer and printmaker
>>>> (978) 456-3033
>>>> www.rwolfson.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:43 PM
>>>>> To: Richard Wolfson
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> As I said below...
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
>>>>>>> September...but no promises.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Until that time I can't say anything about my process or
>>>>> materials...I'm under a non-disclosure agreement.  All I can
>>>>> tell you is what to expect in performance...also below.  If
>>>>> you would like to see a coated print...I'm sending them out
>>>>> through the Piezo and DigitalBW exchanges over the next
>>>>> several months.  Robert Rex also has sample prints of Museo
>>>>> coated. Brightcube will also be traveling with coated Eclipse
>>>>> prints soon.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry I can't be more helpful.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Robert
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------
>>> Robert Morrison
>>> rmorrison@...
>>> 
>>> 310-397-2704
>>> 
>>> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
>>> Los Angeles, CA 90066
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
>> them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

Unfortunately, I can't say what I'm using at this point...but I'm not using
polyurethanes!  The key to not getting brush strokes is not to use a brush!
I use either a #15 meyer rod...for a perfect finish or a foam roller for a
quicker coat.  The roller has the problem of foam...I believe that all the
things that Martin has tried foam pretty badly.  You might try some antifoam
(hint, hint).  It is possible to get beautiful coated prints....but it
really took some doing.  That's why I tried to develop a commercial product.
I should know very shortly if that is going to go ahead.  If it doesn't I'll
release what I'm doing to the list.  I'd love to see a fully formulated
product available for folks to buy.  If it doesn't work out with the people
that I'm talking to now...I have a back up plan...but I should be able to
release the current information soon.

Sorry to be so mysterious...I just have a lot of time and money into
this...and I need to follow my lawyer's directions at the moment.

Robert


On 4/11/02 2:31 PM, "Michael Kravit" <michael.kravit@...>
wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> Which coating are you using? Golden?
> 
> Also, do you get brush strokes?
> 
> Mike
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> 
> 
>> Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran gray
>> wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.  I
>> printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
> uncoated
>> dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated the
>> dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints have a
>> high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
>> 
>> In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on gloss
>> papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
>> 
>> For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you owe
> it
>> to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints that
>> you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really like
>> this.
>> 
>> Robert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

Robert,

No to be argumentative, but why even post your results if you are not
willing to tell people how to get the results that you state. This is a list
for folks to advance the state of the art and discuss their results. By not
sharing, but taking are you not in fact looking to benefit financially from
what you have learned?

Paul Roark is a prime example. He spends hundreds of hours to help advance
the state of the art, and get nothing in return except for his satisfaction
of helping people.

If I am wrong, I stand corrected. If not, I find it difficult to have you
talking about your results that you can not tell us about. Here we share
papers, inks and experience. In one sense I feel that you are telling us
about how great your dmax is, you are testing papers we are sending you, and
you will be profiting.

If I am wrong, let me know. No ill will here, just a bit of a concern.

Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> Unfortunately, I can't say what I'm using at this point...but I'm not
using
> polyurethanes!  The key to not getting brush strokes is not to use a
brush!
> I use either a #15 meyer rod...for a perfect finish or a foam roller for a
> quicker coat.  The roller has the problem of foam...I believe that all the
> things that Martin has tried foam pretty badly.  You might try some
antifoam
> (hint, hint).  It is possible to get beautiful coated prints....but it
> really took some doing.  That's why I tried to develop a commercial
product.
> I should know very shortly if that is going to go ahead.  If it doesn't
I'll
> release what I'm doing to the list.  I'd love to see a fully formulated
> product available for folks to buy.  If it doesn't work out with the
people
> that I'm talking to now...I have a back up plan...but I should be able to
> release the current information soon.
>
> Sorry to be so mysterious...I just have a lot of time and money into
> this...and I need to follow my lawyer's directions at the moment.
>
> Robert
>
>
> On 4/11/02 2:31 PM, "Michael Kravit" <michael.kravit@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Robert,
> >
> > Which coating are you using? Golden?
> >
> > Also, do you get brush strokes?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> >
> >
> >> Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran gray
> >> wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.
I
> >> printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
> > uncoated
> >> dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated
the
> >> dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints
have a
> >> high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
> >>
> >> In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on
gloss
> >> papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
> >>
> >> For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you
owe
> > it
> >> to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints
that
> >> you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really like
> >> this.
> >>
> >> Robert
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------
> Robert Morrison
> rmorrison@...
>
> 310-397-2704
>
> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 90066
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

On 4/11/02 3:02 PM, "Michael Kravit" <michael.kravit@...>
wrote:


----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066
> No to be argumentative, but why even post your results if you are not
> willing to tell people how to get the results that you state. This is a list
> for folks to advance the state of the art and discuss their results. By not
> sharing, but taking are you not in fact looking to benefit financially from
> what you have learned?

This was a major discussion last summer on the Piezo list...and I'd rather
not revisit that.  If you look at my last post...below...I just gave you a
wealth of valuable information about application...some of which had never
appeared on any of these lists before!  In fact the meyer rod is the key to
making a lot of coatings work.

I can't tell you what I'm using chemically...because I'm trying to get
someone make a product that will work better than anything that you can buy
now.  They have to work from what I'm doing.  If I give the formula
away...they won't do it.  I may not be successful...but I have to try for
everyone's benefit.

> Paul Roark is a prime example. He spends hundreds of hours to help advance
> the state of the art, and get nothing in return except for his satisfaction
> of helping people.

Paul, is a great guy...I think it is wonderful that he does what he
does...we have all benefited.  Unfortunately, I can't afford to do this.  I
have thousands of dollars out on this product...not to mention the hundreds
of hours of time printing and coating.  There is a good chance that I will
never see any of that back...but if at all possible I want people to be able
to buy a product that works.
 
> If I am wrong, I stand corrected. If not, I find it difficult to have you
> talking about your results that you can not tell us about. Here we share
> papers, inks and experience. In one sense I feel that you are telling us
> about how great your dmax is, you are testing papers we are sending you, and
> you will be profiting.
> 
Martin has gotten dmax's very similar to the ones that I've posted with
formula that are in the file section.  Try using some of his formula with my
methods and I think you will get some interesting results.  Ultimately, what
I am trying to do is to make the process easier for people...but that will
take some time.  I have no doubt that something like this is the future of
inkjet printing...the gains are just too big not to take advantage of,
particularly for BW printing.

> If I am wrong, let me know. No ill will here, just a bit of a concern

No ill will received, I realize that my mode of operation is not necessarily
easy for people to understand...but you just have to believe me that it is
for all of our best interests.

Robert

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 6:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> 
> 
>> Unfortunately, I can't say what I'm using at this point...but I'm not
> using
>> polyurethanes!  The key to not getting brush strokes is not to use a
> brush!
>> I use either a #15 meyer rod...for a perfect finish or a foam roller for a
>> quicker coat.  The roller has the problem of foam...I believe that all the
>> things that Martin has tried foam pretty badly.  You might try some
> antifoam
>> (hint, hint).  It is possible to get beautiful coated prints....but it
>> really took some doing.  That's why I tried to develop a commercial
> product.
>> I should know very shortly if that is going to go ahead.  If it doesn't
> I'll
>> release what I'm doing to the list.  I'd love to see a fully formulated
>> product available for folks to buy.  If it doesn't work out with the
> people
>> that I'm talking to now...I have a back up plan...but I should be able to
>> release the current information soon.
>> 
>> Sorry to be so mysterious...I just have a lot of time and money into
>> this...and I need to follow my lawyer's directions at the moment.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/11/02 2:31 PM, "Michael Kravit" <michael.kravit@...>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Robert,
>>> 
>>> Which coating are you using? Golden?
>>> 
>>> Also, do you get brush strokes?
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
>>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran gray
>>>> wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.
> I
>>>> printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
>>> uncoated
>>>> dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated
> the
>>>> dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints
> have a
>>>> high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
>>>> 
>>>> In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on
> gloss
>>>> papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
>>>> 
>>>> For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you
> owe
>>> it
>>>> to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints
> that
>>>> you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really like
>>>> this.
>>>> 
>>>> Robert
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other
>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
>>> them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------
>> Robert Morrison
>> rmorrison@...
>> 
>> 310-397-2704
>> 
>> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
>> Los Angeles, CA 90066
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Julian,

I think that would be much worse than using a brush. You are likely to wind
up with droplets of varying sizes which will result in a pebbled look to the
finish. I know some people did some attempts using pressurized spray guns
but I don't recall what the results were.

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> Martin, is it possible to use a spray bottle of some kind?
>
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
>
>
> > Robert,
> >
> > I did try coating some Eclipse last summer and the results we good but
my
> > brush work was lacking. I found it harder to work with in the area of
> > streaking, etc. I realize that the paper may have changed since then.
> >
> > I am not surprised that you got a better Dmax using the Epson driver. I
> > noticed long ago it gave deeper blacks than the Piezo driver even with
the
> > Piezo inks.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> >
> >
> > > Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran
gray
> > > wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.
I
> > > printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
> > uncoated
> > > dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated
> the
> > > dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints
have
> a
> > > high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
> > >
> > > In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on
> gloss
> > > papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
> > >
> > > For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you
> owe
> > it
> > > to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints
> that
> > > you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really
like
> > > this.
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/10/02 1:51 PM, "Richard Wolfson" <richard@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > hi Robert -
> > > >
> > > > oh, ok. I understand now. I saw the September part, but figured I'd
> just
> > > > missed some prior postings on method. I didn't get that it's
> > > > proprietary. That's cool.
> > > >
> > > > If you're maintaining an email list for a product announcement, I'd
be
> > > > pleased if you'd add mine. Good luck, and thanks for getting back to
> me.
> > > >
> > > > Richard
> > > >
> > > > Richard Wolfson
> > > > fine art photographer and printmaker
> > > > (978) 456-3033
> > > > www.rwolfson.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:43 PM
> > > >> To: Richard Wolfson
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> As I said below...
> > > >>
> > > >>>> Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
> > > >>>> September...but no promises.
> > > >>
> > > >> Until that time I can't say anything about my process or
> > > >> materials...I'm under a non-disclosure agreement.  All I can
> > > >> tell you is what to expect in performance...also below.  If
> > > >> you would like to see a coated print...I'm sending them out
> > > >> through the Piezo and DigitalBW exchanges over the next
> > > >> several months.  Robert Rex also has sample prints of Museo
> > > >> coated. Brightcube will also be traveling with coated Eclipse
> > > >> prints soon.
> > > >>
> > > >> Sorry I can't be more helpful.
> > > >>
> > > >> Robert
> > > >>
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > Robert Morrison
> > > rmorrison@...
> > >
> > > 310-397-2704
> > >
> > > 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> > > Los Angeles, CA 90066
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> > them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Robert,

Like I said, if I am wrong I apologize. So your explanation is ok in my
book.

Mike


----- Original Message -----

From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


> On 4/11/02 3:02 PM, "Michael Kravit" <michael.kravit@...>
> wrote:

Toward the end of my wet darkroom phase, I began applying wax to my prints.  It gave them a sheen (or shine), but also appeared to darken blacks and midtones.  It was a product made for this purpose.  I was then using mostly Ilford Galerie, which was neither glossy nor matte.  I haven't tried it yet on a digital print, but I plan to soon.  If it works, it'd have the advantage of being less messy than spray-on finishes.

Len

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martin Wesley 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 6:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


  Julian,

  I think that would be much worse than using a brush. You are likely to wind
  up with droplets of varying sizes which will result in a pebbled look to the
  finish. I know some people did some attempts using pressurized spray guns
  but I don't recall what the results were.

  Martin

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
  To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited


  > Martin, is it possible to use a spray bottle of some kind?
  >
  > Julian
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
  > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:22 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
  >
  >
  > > Robert,
  > >
  > > I did try coating some Eclipse last summer and the results we good but
  my
  > > brush work was lacking. I found it harder to work with in the area of
  > > streaking, etc. I realize that the paper may have changed since then.
  > >
  > > I am not surprised that you got a better Dmax using the Epson driver. I
  > > noticed long ago it gave deeper blacks than the Piezo driver even with
  the
  > > Piezo inks.
  > >
  > > Martin
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
  > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  > > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:38 AM
  > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
  > >
  > >
  > > > Just coated some BW prints on Museo and Eclipse last night.  I ran
  gray
  > > > wedges and black patches just to see where the dmax is at these days.
  I
  > > > printed with John Woolf's work flow and Piezo inks.  This yields an
  > > uncoated
  > > > dmax of 1.57 with both Museo and Eclipse.  When the papers are coated
  > the
  > > > dmax goes to 2.05 for Eclipse and 2.10 for Museo.  The Museo prints
  have
  > a
  > > > high gloss, while the Eclipse prints just have a satin sheen.
  > > >
  > > > In my experience, this dmax is equal to or exceeds pigment prints on
  > gloss
  > > > papers, even when sprayed with Krylon.
  > > >
  > > > For those of you have been experimenting with coatings (Martin)...you
  > owe
  > > it
  > > > to yourself to print on Eclipse and coat.  If you thought the prints
  > that
  > > > you have seen in the past look "plastic"...I think you will really
  like
  > > > this.
  > > >
  > > > Robert
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > On 4/10/02 1:51 PM, "Richard Wolfson" <richard@...> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > > hi Robert -
  > > > >
  > > > > oh, ok. I understand now. I saw the September part, but figured I'd
  > just
  > > > > missed some prior postings on method. I didn't get that it's
  > > > > proprietary. That's cool.
  > > > >
  > > > > If you're maintaining an email list for a product announcement, I'd
  be
  > > > > pleased if you'd add mine. Good luck, and thanks for getting back to
  > me.
  > > > >
  > > > > Richard
  > > > >
  > > > > Richard Wolfson
  > > > > fine art photographer and printmaker
  > > > > (978) 456-3033
  > > > > www.rwolfson.com
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >> -----Original Message-----
  > > > >> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
  > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:43 PM
  > > > >> To: Richard Wolfson
  > > > >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Coating revisited
  > > > >>
  > > > >>
  > > > >> As I said below...
  > > > >>
  > > > >>>> Currently, I'm hoping to have a commercial product out by next
  > > > >>>> September...but no promises.
  > > > >>
  > > > >> Until that time I can't say anything about my process or
  > > > >> materials...I'm under a non-disclosure agreement.  All I can
  > > > >> tell you is what to expect in performance...also below.  If
  > > > >> you would like to see a coated print...I'm sending them out
  > > > >> through the Piezo and DigitalBW exchanges over the next
  > > > >> several months.  Robert Rex also has sample prints of Museo
  > > > >> coated. Brightcube will also be traveling with coated Eclipse
  > > > >> prints soon.
  > > > >>
  > > > >> Sorry I can't be more helpful.
  > > > >>
  > > > >> Robert
  > > > >>
  > > >
  > > > ----------------------
  > > > Robert Morrison
  > > > rmorrison@...
  > > >
  > > > 310-397-2704
  > > >
  > > > 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
  > > > Los Angeles, CA 90066
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
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