Digital BW, The Print

Tim, I had problems as well. There is a 'sub by email' alternative at the
foot of the page describing the group. I had to use that. Basically send a
blank email to :
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-subscribe@yahoogroups.com  and it owrks.
Otherwise you seem to have to set up Yahoo emails and all sorts.

Julian


From: <tyork@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 6:40 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: German Fine Art Papers (long)


Hi Martin,

A friend of mine, Jerry Olson, has been trying to join the list but
has run into problems with the form.  I don't know if he is the only
one but here is a Head's Up.

Tim















--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> Bernd,
>
> Welcome and thank you for delivering all the information and news!
It
> sounds like the German paper companies have indeed taken notice of
> the demand for art papers! I can't wait to get my hands on some of
> the new papers you have described.
>
> As you get a chance to browse through the posts so far you will
note
> that we have been joined by people who are using dye based ink sets
> and achieving some incredible Dmax's. So if you would also keep
your
> eye out for likely papers for these inks it would be much
appreciated.
>
> If you have a second printer running with standard dye inks, even
> CYMK, you might try some of the new "made for dye" papers and give
us
> your impressions. I know that the samples you get are limited in
> quantity, but if there are things that are poor with Piezo inks but
> might be good with dyes maybe you can pass them on. Perhaps someone
> in the EU working with dye inks will turn up on the list.
>
> Ron Landucci has given us some reports on the Spectratone Quadtone
> inks and Oce papers. Oce is a French company I believe. I don't
know
> if they manufacture there own paper but this might be another EU
> paper source for you. I have used Oce plotters and the company
always
> impressed me with their quality and innovation.
>
> For those of you who are not aware, art paper sources in Europe are
a
> real problem. Those of us in the US have more resources and lower
> costs even though much of the paper is made in Europe. A
frustrating
> situation.
>
> Please keep posting the paper information as it is indeed of
interest
> to all the inkjet users. I hope to put together a list of all the
> paper manufactures, their names for their papers, re-branded names
> and a list of retail sources (EU sources too).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> > Hi Martin, hi Antonis, hi everybody
> >
> >
> > At first let me thank you for inviting me to join this list.
> > So far I\ufffdve only been a member of the piezo list where I\ufffdve
> > learned a lot of you piezo-guys while my input was rather small.
> > Thank you all for your generous attitude in sharing your
> > experiences.
> > So what could be my input to this list.
> > Well, I know that the German Fine Art Papers of the Hahnem\ufffdhle
> > are loved a lot by Fine Art Printers world wide. Unfortunately
> there
> > has been great confusion in the past about their papers caused
> > by different labels used by different distributors, coating
changes
> > by Hahnem\ufffdhle and private coatings of resellers. But
> > nevertheless W. Turner (Wells River and so on ), German
> > Etching (Orwell and so on) and for some of us Torchon too,
> > seem to be recognized as first choice papers if it comes to the
> > high end.
> > But there have been some critics too.
> > The surface-character of Torchon is disputed (loved by some,
> > hated by others - depending on the kind of images to be
> > reproduced I suppose).
> > The surface of W. Turner is criticised a lot because of flaking
> > problems and its haptic characteristics (sandy!!).  Even the
> > surface of German Etching is not satisfying for everybody (not
> > smooth enough and sometimes flaking).
> > I tried to transmitt those critics to Hahnem\ufffdhle in the past and
> > surprise: they took it serious and even admitted the problems.
> > As a consolation they told me, that they will come up with a new
> > paper in August/September which should resolve those
> > problems. It is called PHOTO RAG and will be 100% rag/cotton,
> > acid free with a smoother surface than W. Turner while keeping
> > its print characteristics.
> > I\ufffdll get some sample sheets this week and will report on their
> > printing characteristics with piezo inks next week. Lets see if
it
> > holds promise.
> >
> > Well I\ufffdm no Hahnem\ufffdhle employee, so what else is new  at the
> > German Fine Art Paper Front:
> > Someone of the piezo-list -guys mentioned Schoellershammer
> > papers some weeks ago. Schoellershammer is a traditional
> > German paper mill too, some hundred years old. They are
> > producing fine art inkjet papers for some times , what  I didn\ufffdt
> > know until now. Meanwhile I ordered a sample pack, which
> > arrived some days ago, and I printed some papers. Here come
> > some PLELIMINARY results:
> >
> > 1. All papers are acid free 100 % rag
> > 2. Schoellershammer claim to have optimized coating for dye
> > based inks (what doesn\ufffdt exclude to use pigment-inks)
> > 3. their labeling is absolutely confusion to me that means:
> > although they call some of  their paper qualities rough, these
are
> > very very smooth (sic!!!)
> > 4. they have at least one paper, which may be an absolute
> > winner for piezo-users
> >
> > 1. paper quality is called: Watercolor Quality: Torchon, 200 gsm
> > 2. paper quality is called: Watercolor/Pastel Quality: Rough, 200
> > gsm
> > 3. paper quality is called: Watercolor Quality: Rough, 225, 300
> > gsm
> > 4. paper quality is called: Oilcolor Quality: Coarse Linen, 200,
> > 300 gsm
> >
> > ad 1. Torchon is rather alike Torchon of Hahnem\ufffdhle, special
> > surface for special indications in my opinion, not my game,
> > didn\ufffdt print on it yet.
> > ad 2. Pastell rough 200gsm:  didn\ufffdt take the piezo ink very well,
> > overall impression was: flaw. But I had only one sheet and
> > printed with the Orwell profile, so maybe another profile works
> > better. But 200 gsm is a little thin, no?
> >
> > ad 3: Watercolor rough: had only two sheets. One 225 and one
> > 300. printed on the 225 sheet with the Orwell profile first:
> result
> > too dark, no serious comment possible. Printed the second
> > sheet (300) after some curve tweaking in PS and surprise: it
> > came out like my best prints on Epson Archival Matte, Somerset
> > or even German Etching.
> > A winner for piezo, I believe (so far).
> > Why: It is 100 % rag, it has 300gsm, the surface is a lot
> > smoother than W. Turner, even significantly smoother than
> > German Etching though a very little less smooth than Epsom
> > Archival Matte. The color is like German Etching, which means
> > not as bright white as EAM. Print Quality was surprisingly good
if
> > you take in account that the paper is not profiled yet and I took
> the
> > Orwell profile by chance.
> > I ordered some sheets and will report again. Hope the paper
> > fulfils my expectations.
> > ad 4.: Coarse linen: nothing for serious fine art printing in my
> > opinion. Like Hahnem\ufffdhle Canvas Artist. Didn\ufffdt print on it.
> >
> > So to answer my question about a possible input to this list:
> > As I am aware of the language barrier some of the users might
> > have when they have questions or comments with reference to
> > the German Fine Art Papers I could offer to be a transmitter of
> > our critics and wishes to the German industry. If that is
> > appreciated - feel free to contact me onlinne or offline.
> >
> > So long.
> > And good luck to the list.
> > Bernd Langmack
> > Essen, Germany



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