Digital BW, The Print

Tim,

Todd forwarded me a message that Jerry was having a problem getting 
on and I e-mailed Jerry with some suggestions. Someone else had some 
problems but did finally get on. 

Thanks for the alert.

Anyone with problems can e-mail me on my home computer at 
mwesley250@... (evenings and weekends)or at 
blueto49@...(M-F, 8AM to 5PM) I'm in California so those are 
Pacific Daylight Savings times. Or try e-mailing the group directly 
at digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com I will try and walk 
you though any problems you are encountering getting on.

Martin Wesley


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Hi Martin,
> 
> A friend of mine, Jerry Olson, has been trying to join the list but 
> has run into problems with the form.  I don't know if he is the 
only 
> one but here is a Head's Up.
> 
> Tim 
> 
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> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> > Bernd,
> > 
> > Welcome and thank you for delivering all the information and 
news! 
> It 
> > sounds like the German paper companies have indeed taken notice 
of 
> > the demand for art papers! I can't wait to get my hands on some 
of 
> > the new papers you have described.
> > 
> > As you get a chance to browse through the posts so far you will 
> note 
> > that we have been joined by people who are using dye based ink 
sets 
> > and achieving some incredible Dmax's. So if you would also keep 
> your 
> > eye out for likely papers for these inks it would be much 
> appreciated.
> > 
> > If you have a second printer running with standard dye inks, even 
> > CYMK, you might try some of the new "made for dye" papers and 
give 
> us 
> > your impressions. I know that the samples you get are limited in 
> > quantity, but if there are things that are poor with Piezo inks 
but 
> > might be good with dyes maybe you can pass them on. Perhaps 
someone 
> > in the EU working with dye inks will turn up on the list.
> > 
> > Ron Landucci has given us some reports on the Spectratone 
Quadtone 
> > inks and Oce papers. Oce is a French company I believe. I don't 
> know 
> > if they manufacture there own paper but this might be another EU 
> > paper source for you. I have used Oce plotters and the company 
> always 
> > impressed me with their quality and innovation.
> > 
> > For those of you who are not aware, art paper sources in Europe 
are 
> a 
> > real problem. Those of us in the US have more resources and lower 
> > costs even though much of the paper is made in Europe. A 
> frustrating 
> > situation.
> > 
> > Please keep posting the paper information as it is indeed of 
> interest 
> > to all the inkjet users. I hope to put together a list of all the 
> > paper manufactures, their names for their papers, re-branded 
names 
> > and a list of retail sources (EU sources too). 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> > > Hi Martin, hi Antonis, hi everybody
> > > 
> > > 
> > > At first let me thank you for inviting me to join this list. 
> > > So far I´ve only been a member of the piezo list where I´ve 
> > > learned a lot of you piezo-guys while my input was rather 
small. 
> > > Thank you all for your generous attitude in sharing your 
> > > experiences.
> > > So what could be my input to this list.
> > > Well, I know that the German Fine Art Papers of the Hahnemühle 
> > > are loved a lot by Fine Art Printers world wide. Unfortunately 
> > there 
> > > has been great confusion in the past about their papers caused 
> > > by different labels used by different distributors, coating 
> changes 
> > > by Hahnemühle and private coatings of resellers. But 
> > > nevertheless W. Turner (Wells River and so on ), German 
> > > Etching (Orwell and so on) and for some of us Torchon too, 
> > > seem to be recognized as first choice papers if it comes to the 
> > > high end.
> > > But there have been some critics too. 
> > > The surface-character of Torchon is disputed (loved by some, 
> > > hated by others – depending on the kind of images to be 
> > > reproduced I suppose).
> > > The surface of W. Turner is criticised a lot because of flaking 
> > > problems and its haptic characteristics (sandy!!).  Even the 
> > > surface of German Etching is not satisfying for everybody (not 
> > > smooth enough and sometimes flaking). 
> > > I tried to transmitt those critics to Hahnemühle in the past 
and 
> > > surprise: they took it serious and even admitted the problems. 
> > > As a consolation they told me, that they will come up with a 
new 
> > > paper in August/September which should resolve those 
> > > problems. It is called PHOTO RAG and will be 100% rag/cotton, 
> > > acid free with a smoother surface than W. Turner while keeping 
> > > its print characteristics.
> > > I´ll get some sample sheets this week and will report on their 
> > > printing characteristics with piezo inks next week. Lets see if 
> it 
> > > holds promise.
> > > 
> > > Well I´m no Hahnemühle employee, so what else is new  at the 
> > > German Fine Art Paper Front:
> > > Someone of the piezo-list –guys mentioned Schoellershammer 
> > > papers some weeks ago. Schoellershammer is a traditional 
> > > German paper mill too, some hundred years old. They are 
> > > producing fine art inkjet papers for some times , what  I 
didn´t 
> > > know until now. Meanwhile I ordered a sample pack, which 
> > > arrived some days ago, and I printed some papers. Here come 
> > > some PLELIMINARY results:
> > > 
> > > 1. All papers are acid free 100 % rag
> > > 2. Schoellershammer claim to have optimized coating for dye 
> > > based inks (what doesn´t exclude to use pigment-inks)
> > > 3. their labeling is absolutely confusion to me that means: 
> > > although they call some of  their paper qualities rough, these 
> are 
> > > very very smooth (sic!!!)
> > > 4. they have at least one paper, which may be an absolute 
> > > winner for piezo-users
> > > 
> > > 1. paper quality is called:	Watercolor Quality: Torchon, 
200 gsm
> > > 2. paper quality is called:	Watercolor/Pastel Quality: 
Rough, 200 
> > > gsm
> > > 3. paper quality is called:	Watercolor Quality: Rough, 
225, 300 
> > > gsm
> > > 4. paper quality is called:	Oilcolor Quality: Coarse 
Linen, 200, 
> > > 300 gsm
> > > 
> > > ad 1. Torchon is rather alike Torchon of Hahnemühle, special 
> > > surface for special indications in my opinion, not my game, 
> > > didn´t print on it yet.
> > > ad 2. Pastell rough 200gsm:  didn´t take the piezo ink very 
well, 
> > > overall impression was: flaw. But I had only one sheet and 
> > > printed with the Orwell profile, so maybe another profile works 
> > > better. But 200 gsm is a little thin, no?
> > > 
> > > ad 3: Watercolor rough: had only two sheets. One 225 and one 
> > > 300. printed on the 225 sheet with the Orwell profile first:  
> > result 
> > > too dark, no serious comment possible. Printed the second 
> > > sheet (300) after some curve tweaking in PS and surprise: it 
> > > came out like my best prints on Epson Archival Matte, Somerset 
> > > or even German Etching.
> > > A winner for piezo, I believe (so far). 
> > > Why: It is 100 % rag, it has 300gsm, the surface is a lot 
> > > smoother than W. Turner, even significantly smoother than 
> > > German Etching though a very little less smooth than Epsom 
> > > Archival Matte. The color is like German Etching, which means 
> > > not as bright white as EAM. Print Quality was surprisingly good 
> if 
> > > you take in account that the paper is not profiled yet and I 
took 
> > the 
> > > Orwell profile by chance.
> > > I ordered some sheets and will report again. Hope the paper 
> > > fulfils my expectations.
> > > ad 4.: Coarse linen: nothing for serious fine art printing in 
my 
> > > opinion. Like Hahnemühle Canvas Artist. Didn´t print on it.
> > > 
> > > So to answer my question about a possible input to this list:
> > > As I am aware of the language barrier some of the users might 
> > > have when they have questions or comments with reference to 
> > > the German Fine Art Papers I could offer to be a transmitter of 
> > > our critics and wishes to the German industry. If that is 
> > > appreciated – feel free to contact me onlinne or offline.
> > > 
> > > So long.
> > > And good luck to the list.
> > > Bernd Langmack
> > > Essen, Germany