Digital BW, The Print

From what I see in your fade tests is that for someone making the 
move to the digital darkroom the MIS FS-N seems to have the better 
stability. I am wanting a set of inks that will provide for "salable" 
prints. I know nothing will replace a wet darkroom print at this 
point in terms of image stability. But I would like something close. 
In the wet darkroom I am used to using Polycontrast Fine Art and 
Polycontrast RC.

Though since I am testing things out at this point I am hesitant in 
making the $150 investment in the PZ drivers (I may decide that the 
wet darkroom is the best way go after the tests). Based on your 
experience with the info provided will the MIS-VM do what I am 
looking for? Your curves for this ink seem interesting (as well as 
your images on the website). The best of all worlds.

Thanks for helping the beginner...

Chip



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Ken,
> 
> I use the third-party pigments from MIS or MediaStreet.  Bought in 
bulk,
> these are very cheap and, for my uses, very good.  I tried to do 
B&W with
> the Gen3 pigs (relatively weak yellow in Gen3 has been upgraded in 
Gen4),
> and found the tone shifts unacceptable.
> 
> I now have a fade test going with Epson 2200 and PiezoTone-selenium 
test
> strips in the fader.  The third spot in the fader is a test strip 
printed
> with MIS archival pigments, but with the new, tougher yellow (same 
as the
> Gen4 yellow, I believe) and the MIS FS/VM black (the best I've 
found).  So,
> the best of the 3rd party pigments are up against the new 
UltraChrome inks
> (best combination of color and stability yet) and PiezoTone-
selenium quad
> (best quad midtone).
> 
> One thing I want to see is if these color inksets still have 
unacceptable
> color shifts due to differential fade.
> 
> It is way to early to draw any conclusions -- only 100 hours now.  
At this
> point, both the UltraChrome and PiezoTone 50% patches show a 0.01 
tone
> shift, but that could be less, since that is the smallest amount 
the X-Rite
> densitometer can read.  The MIS Arc pigs show a 0.03 drop in 
magenta.  While
> it's too early to make any conclusions, this is a bad sign.  It may 
be
> shifting green.
> 
> So, stay tuned.  The fade test will reach 300 hours at the end of 
next week.
> That is typically where the old warm-shifting quads started to 
stabilize
> into a predictable, linear fade pattern.  So, it may be a place 
where we'll
> have a much better basis for some judgments about tone stability.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> ____________________________________________
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: heliar333 [mailto:heliar@a...]
>   Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:18 AM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PS Quadtones vs. a dedicated system
> 
> 
>   Paul -
> 
>   If I follow, there are 3 considerations: tonal integrity, 
longevity,
>   and price. No doubt, dye inks are a poor solution with respect to
>   longevity and price. If, however, we were to use a color inkset 
with
>   excellent longevity and value, then the question boils down to 
tonal
>   integrity.
> 
>   Perhaps I can re-state the question: Given pigmented inkset of
>   comparable economy and longevity, what is the compelling reason to
>   favor quadtone printing done with 4 or more inks, versus
>   the "virtual" or "simulated" quadtone available through 
Photoshop ?
> 
>   Thanks !
> 
>   - Ken Lee
> 
> 
> 
>   > A perfectly-profiled 1280 with Epson dye ink can make B&W prints
>   that look
>   > very good -- in some light and for a little while.  However, 
even
>   if you get
>   > the cross-overs/color tints out of the system when the print is
>   fresh, with
>   > differential fade of the dyes there will be color shifts.  Also,
>   the photo
>   > will suffer from "metamerism" -- tone shifts as the display 
life is
>   changed.
>   >
>   > Probably most of us have gone through the drill of trying to use
>   color inks
>   > for B&W.  The 2200 might make the grade, but until I have seen 
the
>   results
>   > of long-term fade tests (which I, among others, are doing) I'm
>   going to
>   > remain a bit skeptical that Epson has entirely solved the 
problem.
>   >
>   > Actually, a big factor you might want to consider is cost.  At
>   least with
>   > the MIS ink, the cost is very low compared to Epson inks --
>   especially if
>   > you buy bulk ink and either load carts yourself or use a 
continuous
>   inking
>   > system.
>   >
>   > So, a spare printer with quads might make experimenting with
>   digital photos
>   > both more satisfying and less expensive.
>   >
>   > Paul
>   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
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