Digital BW, The Print

Quentin,

Excellently written evaluation...thanks.

One thing I am not particularly clear on, and that is...when printing
neutral B/W from the 7600 with ImagePrint, is the printer laying down 7
colors or 2 colors?  I am told 2 colors.  If that is so, than no way are 2
colors of black going to out perform the smoothness and contrast of 6
colors/shades of black, i.e. Quad/Hex.

Also, what is 4 pass vs. 8 pass printing at 1440?

Thanks...Craig Sterling

> From: "qdfb" <qdb@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 22:37:12 -0000
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Piezo Pro, 7000 and ImagePrint 5, 7600 for B&W.
> 
> Antonis suggested I post my updated views on comparisons I have
> undertaken recently of B&W output from an Epson 7000 run by
> Piezography Pro (the so called R9 software), with Selenium Tone inks,
> and an Epson 7600, matte black ink, run by ImagePrint 5.  Finally,
> I'll comment briefly on the 7000 / Selenium run by ImagePrint 5.
> 
> I deliberately use the word "views", not "findings" because this is
> not a scientific experiment.  It is, inevitably, in large part
> subjective. Your mileage, as they say, may vary.
> 
> If Antonis thinks it useful, I may add the images I used for this
> test to the files section of the list so you can see what I am
> talking about below.
> 
> One image, the church image, has a lot of information in the 95-99%
> range, but hardly any at 100%.  It is a good test of shadow detail.
> The other image, from  the Olympic stadium in Barcelona, is sharp but
> a bit grainy, with some deep shadows and blown out highlights.  Both
> are 360 dpi.  Prints were made on Photo Rag 308gsm
> 
> Chruch Print - Piezo
> 
> I have some issues with Piezo / Selenium inks.  There is some subtle
> microbanding I cannot shift.  Others have reported this on the two
> piezo lists, and it seems to be a problem associated with the change
> from the old "Sundance" inks to the new PiezoTone inks.  This has
> been a driver behind my personal search for a viable alternative.
> 
> I continue to be amazed at how well Piezo seperates tones in the 95-
> 100% region.  I'd argue it looks almost too open.  There seems to
> have been some contrast loss with the new inks, but they exhibit
> incredible tonality.  There is no sootiness, and you can see in to
> the shadows. 
> 
> There are no visible dots under an 8x loup, but if you *really* look
> closely, you can just see the "tartan" weave pattern.  Frankly, this
> is irrelevant, as the surface texture of Photo Rag is more obvious at
> this magnification.  If only the microbanding would shift, this would
> be one near perfect print.
> 
> Chruch Print - ImagePrint / 7600
> 
> The original shot was taken on a Bronica GS 1 6x7 camera, Agfa APX
> 25, developed in Rodinal,
> 
> I used a profile kindly supplied by John Pannozzo this week
> specifically for Photo Rag and Matte ink.  Print made at 1440, 8-pass.
> 
> The first point to make is that we are looking at a totally neutral
> B&W print.  There are no croosover effects - no way to tell this was
> not made with a quadtone inkset.  Metamerism is also almost
> bansihed.  This, I am told, is because ImagePrint does not use the
> yellow ink.  Whatever, it works :-)
> 
> It is immediately noticeable that there is more contrast in this
> print.  It also looks slightly sharper, possibly a result of the
> greater contrast, but I wonder also if the way ink is laid down is a
> factor, or whether the smaller dot size / resolution improvement with
> the 7600 is in evidence.
> 
> There are no dots visible to the naked eye. Under an 8x loup, you can
> just make out the individual colour dyes laid down by the 7600 in
> lighter tone areas.  Not the slightest chance you'd see this without
> a powerful loup - the print looks totally dotless - and even with a
> loup, the dots are far from obvious.  They are a little more obvious
> under the loup if you chose 4 instead of 8 pass at 1440.
> 
> The shadows are well seperated with ImagePrint, but not quite as much
> shadow info is visible at around the 96-98% mark as with Piezo.  it
> is a matter of taste which is "better".  I do think, however, that it
> is more obvious where the matte black in kicks in.  I might
> experiment with ink limiting as I think this would improve matters.
> 
> Nij Rheam and I have speculated whether the ImagePrint Gamma 2.2
> prints just a tad too dark.
> 
> Stadium Print - Piezo
> 
> A more contrasty subject, shot on a Mamiya 7II with Agfa 100 and
> developed in Rodinal for a high acutance negative.  Piezo seems to
> have smoother the film grain somehow.  Print looks good: similar
> comments to the Church image.
> 
> Stadium Print - ImagePrint
> 
> I used the tint picker with this, set at 1,1 to max out on the blue.
> However, because it prints slightly warm on Photo Rag, the print is
> just pleasingly slightly cool.
> 
> Imageprint faithfully renders the grain.  I'm not sure if Piezo has
> some smoothing trick built in to the software, but something odd is
> going on here.  I slightly prefer the ImagePrint print, even though
> the Piezo print has fractionally more shadow detail.  The extra punch
> from the Imageprint print, coupled with the tint, works for me.
> 
> The Piezo black is, though, a tad more dense than the Ultrachrome
> matte.  I tried a print with a Piezo ink profile through ImagePrint
> (using a special ImagePrint profile for the 7000) to the 7000 and the
> extra density of the Piezo Black is repeated, so it has nothing to do
> with the driver used.  The print done with ImagePrint through Piezo
> looks very similar (but with the denser black) to the ImagePrint
> print through the 7600.  It may not be quite as good.
> 
> Is there a winner?  Let me put it like this.  On the evidence of the
> prints I have so far done, ImagePrint 5 is a viable, very high
> quality alternative to Piezo Pro, with the benifit of the tint
> picker, support in new profiles from ColorByte, and no banding
> problems.  Personally, I really like the tint picker.  It imparts a
> quite subtle tone to the image.
> 
> When it works, Piezo Pro is superb, and may just have the edge in
> ultimate quality, in my view, but you are limited to the tone of the
> inkset you have chosen, and at the moment its future is unclear.
> 
> One final comment: ImagePrint prints better B&W thought the 7600, in
> my view, than through the 7000.
> 
> So - no winner, just choices.
> 
> Quentin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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