Digital BW, The Print

I've seen it...but I know its wrong...all that does is convince me that
Wilhelm's old test methods which he has now changed because they didn't work
were bad. Those same test methods said the 1270 Epson dyes would last for 25
years...right...those were the dyes that color shifted beyond recognition in
6 months of average room light. As I mentioned somewhere...the problem is
what the definition of fading is...Wilhelm's is way too loose for me.  If
you look at Cone's fade tests you can see the MIS FS black fade noticeably
with only 1000 hours in a Xenon chamber (Museum black passes that test). The
Cone tests use a reasonable 2 delta E change as a pass. The MIS FS black has
very little of its strength from dye...but that fries almost immediately...
with the net effect a weak black. The Gen4 is a low loading pigment black
trumped up with dye...the dye will be gone in no time and then you are left
with a week black.  I believe that this was well documented by Paul within
the last 6 months or so.

Jerry, its great that you are happy with the Gen4 black...but I don't think
it should be considered in the same sentence as the new high load pigment
blacks (e.g., Ultrachrome Matte Black, Piezotone Museum Black, MIS Eboni
Black).  They will be stronger than the Gen4 in a matter of months with room
lighting...I think that's the point that is important for people to
understand.  I don't think there is anything wrong with using Gen4 for a
dark storage short range portfolio...but with 25% dye it is simply not an
appropriate choice for archival prints...particularly on matte paper which
won't protect the dye.  Now John Edmunds new dye based inks with his special
enfused paper may be another story...I hear his longevity estimates are up
to 60 years...pretty good for color work.

Robert


On 3/10/03 12:30 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote:

> Hi Bob,
> 
> It is on Media Street's site, the enhanced black was rated by Wilhelm
> for 100+ years
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Morrison wrote:
>> Yep...that is certainly ridiculous.  Unfortunately that calls into question
>> all of their numbers.  But my guess is that if you allow 40% density failure
>> and are unconcerned by color shift you probably could get 100 years from the
>> enhanced black.  This is a prime example of why year ratings are a really
>> bad idea.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> On 3/10/03 9:49 AM, "Tim Atherton" <timatherton@...> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> I saw it on their site about a month ago. I thought it was an awful long
>>>> time for ink with dye in it. I can't find it now, on
>>>> their site.
>>> 
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> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
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