Roy, I haven't tried the Ilford semi-matte yet, but it seems to be very good. Were you also setting limits at 100 for all of the UT2 inks? I noticed that your mid-tone densities were higher than what I was getting with the UT1 gray inks and didn't know if that was because of the difference between the UT1 and UT2 ink densities or your higher gray-overlap percentage (I used 10%). Carl On Tuesday, January 20, 2004, at 12:48 AM, Roy Harrington wrote: > Carl, > > That looks a lot like I'm getting. Here's my carbon(warm) and neutral: > > Carbon: > Step Gain Density > 0 0.00 0.076 ** > 5 -0.28 0.126 **** > 10 -0.35 0.181 ***** > 15 -0.02 0.243 ******* > 20 -0.58 0.296 ******** > 25 -0.13 0.365 ********** > 30 0.07 0.435 *********** > 35 -0.05 0.503 ************* > 40 0.41 0.585 *************** > 45 -0.08 0.656 ***************** > 50 0.06 0.743 ******************* > 55 0.13 0.834 ********************* > 60 0.02 0.928 ************************ > 65 0.11 1.034 ************************** > 70 0.10 1.148 ***************************** > 75 0.37 1.279 ******************************** > 80 0.51 1.420 ************************************ > 85 -0.26 1.551 *************************************** > 90 0.44 1.750 ******************************************** > 95 0.12 1.939 ************************************************* > 100 0.00 > 2.180 ******************************************************* > > Neutral: > Step Gain Density > 0 0.00 0.058 ** > 5 2.02 0.135 **** > 10 3.48 0.209 ****** > 15 4.11 0.278 ******* > 20 4.76 0.350 ********* > 25 4.41 0.413 *********** > 30 4.01 0.478 ************ > 35 3.64 0.548 ************** > 40 3.95 0.632 **************** > 45 4.50 0.726 ******************* > 50 4.23 0.812 ********************* > 55 3.69 0.899 *********************** > 60 2.32 0.974 ************************* > 65 3.38 1.111 **************************** > 70 3.81 1.246 ******************************** > 75 4.00 1.389 *********************************** > 80 3.69 1.535 *************************************** > 85 2.06 1.650 ****************************************** > 90 3.29 1.896 ************************************************ > 95 1.85 2.060 **************************************************** > 100 0.00 > 2.252 ********************************************************* > > > With the neutral there's a lot of ink hence the higher dmax. With the > carbon > I have a GRAY_OVERLAP=20 so there's 20% light gray with the dark gray. > The result looks quite nice, no bronzing, but even after an hour of > drying there's > a little tackiness in the dark areas. It's pretty delicate for a long > time. > > Roy > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield > <scho@m...> > wrote: >> Roy, >> >> That worked just fine. I dropped Eboni out of the UT1 mix and made >> curves using just C, LC, and Y grays for the carbon-warm curve and >> added M and LM toners for a cool curve, on Epson Photo Paper. Just >> kept the ink limits all at 100, partitioned the grays as usual, and >> linearized. Below is a plot of the densities for a 50% blend of the >> warm and cool curves. I made a neutral and warm print of a test image >> with these curves and they look great with no rub-off, bronzing, or >> gloss differential problems. The prints have a beautiful, uniform, >> soft gloss and the 1.9+ dmax on plain old epson photo paper isn't too >> shabby. So, "K-less" printing now for glossy papers? >> >> Carl >> >> Step Density >> 0 0.028 * >> 5 0.075 ** >> 10 0.132 **** >> 15 0.188 ***** >> 20 0.247 ******* >> 25 0.293 ******** >> 30 0.359 ********* >> 35 0.424 *********** >> 40 0.501 ************* >> 45 0.582 *************** >> 50 0.645 ***************** >> 55 0.742 ******************* >> 60 0.837 ********************* >> 65 0.918 *********************** >> 70 1.024 ************************** >> 75 1.133 ***************************** >> 80 1.265 ******************************** >> 85 1.401 ************************************ >> 90 1.533 *************************************** >> 95 1.703 ******************************************* >> 100 1.932 ************************************************* >> >> On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 08:40 PM, Roy Harrington wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Carl, >>> >>> I just sent my post about leaving out Eboni. I'm thinking that once >>> you drop eboni from the mix you may actually be able to use the >>> toner. >>> >>> Roy >>> >>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield >>> <scho@m...> >>> wrote: >>>> Paul, >>>> >>>> You are right about the toner limitation for glossy with the UT1 >>>> inks >>>> and I have some UT2 inks on order from MIS, but I just wanted to see >>>> how this worked with the UT1 inks since I still have them loaded in >>>> the >>>> 1270. I did get somewhat higher dmax with Epson Pro Glossy (1.76) >>>> and >>>> even better with Ilford Smooth Pearl (2.04), using the same 92% >>>> curve >>>> limit at 100%. However, when I printed a QTR warm curve (no toner) >>>> on >>>> the Pro Glossy the dmax dropped to 1.59 and the print showed >>>> bronzing >>>> and gloss differential as well. >>>> >>>> Carl >>>> On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 04:05 PM, Paul Roark wrote: >>>> >>>>> Carl, >>>>> >>>>> The problem with this Eboni-glossy printing approach and the UT1 is >>>>> the >>>>> light toner. In UT2 the coolness comes from an ink that is >>>>> actually >>>>> a >>>>> hair >>>>> darker than the UT1 cyan. That accounts for the dmax differences, >>>>> I >>>>> assume. >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> www.PaulRoark.com >>>>> _____________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Carl Schofield [mailto:scho@m...] >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:50 PM >>>>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy printing with Eboni -- who >>>>> needs a >>>>> 4000? >>>>> >>>>> Roy & Paul, >>>>> >>>>> I tried the UT1 inks with Eboni K in my 1270 using a neutral curve >>>>> in >>>>> QTR and printed to Epson Photo Paper. The Eboni rubbed off and >>>>> showed >>>>> a gloss differential only in the 100% patch. However, by applying >>>>> a >>>>> curve adjustment layer and limiting output at 100% I was able to >>>>> get >>>>> rid of the rub-off and gloss differential. The "optimal" 100% >>>>> output >>>>> limit in terms of dmax was at 92% and there was no rub-off or gloss >>>>> differential. Print looked great with no bronzing either. Dmax >>>>> numbers (see chart below) were not that great but the blacks still >>>>> looked good. I did no spraying with Print Shield for these tests. >>>>> I >>>>> wonder if more C position gray ink were laid down under the Eboni >>>>> if >>>>> dmax would be higher. Roy, could this be accomplished with a >>>>> higher >>>>> GRAY-OVERLAP? I was using 10%. >>>>> >>>>> Carl >>>>> >>>>> Curves 100% Ouput D >>>>> 90 1.64 >>>>> 91 1.64 >>>>> 92 1.65 >>>>> 93 1.631 >>>>> 94 1.614 >>>>> 95 1.609 >>>>> On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 02:42 PM, Roy Harrington wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Paul, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm curious just what you've got here. Is it that this one >>>>>> specific >>>>>> paper Smooth Pearl is somehow compatible with Eboni but >>>>>> others aren't? Or are you just not using the Eboni ink by >>>>>> making >>>>>> the 100% spot just 100% R and G and 0% B -- i.e. the dark warm >>>>>> gray and dark cool gray inks are enough to give a great dMax. >>>>>> >>>>>> Roy >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" >>>>>> <paul.roark@v...> wrote: >>>>>>> OK, this is a little half-baked, but the bottom line is that I've >>>>>>> hit >>>>>>> a dmax >>>>>>> of 2.28 on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl - with Eboni. There is >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> significant dusting or rub-off. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The secret is that the UT2 (and perhaps UT1) inks use a base that >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> glossy binder. It's not an acrylic coating on the particle. >>>>>>> So, I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> let Eboni sit there by itself - or barely at all. So, to the >>>>>>> extent >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is Eboni there, it is held by the base that carried the other >>>>>>> inks >>>>>>> into that >>>>>>> spot. The best dmax so far is with the yellow position sepia >>>>>>> toner >>>>>>> pulled >>>>>>> out entirely at the 100% spot. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whether I can write full curves for this is untested. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, there is more to do here before declaring any kind of >>>>>>> victory, >>>>>>> but we >>>>>>> may not need to mess with switching blacks any more. Now that >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> nice.
Message
Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy printing with Eboni -- who needs a 4000?
2004-01-20 by Carl Schofield