Digital BW, The Print

On my 7660 I ran a calibration and three cleanings.  My findings have
not changed very much.  With the quality setting at Best under a loupe
I see a herring-bone pattern of which an example can be seen on the
left here:

http://www.photo.net/comments/attachment/443167/printClose.jpg

With the quality setting to Maximum dpi my output looks very much like
 the sample on the right.  Here's another example of what I see on my
prints at max dpi:

http://www.photo.net/equipment/hp/hp7960/grayscalecompare1.jpg

As you can see in that example, there is a definite pattern compared
to the Canon sample.  What I'm seeing on my prints is that the pattern
will appear as extremely fine microbanding.  And I mean extremely
fine.  I need to view the print from 5 inches away to actually see it.  

Something else I found is that the high resolution of this printer
will bite you in the backside if you are printing from film scans and
have oversharpened the image and/or have hairline scratches in the
negative.  The former making the latter worse, obviously.

Rad

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Radimus"
<radimus@p...> wrote:
> I'll try some of those tricks on my 7660 and see what happens.  I'm
> interested to hear how things go when you get the new cartridges and
> printer this weekend.
> 
> Rad
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hahn"
> <markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
> > I tried both, first the max, then the best, then upsampling to 
> > printer resolution... in each case it *changed* the problem, but 
> > didn't get rid of it.
> > 
> > Anyway, after hours of frustration by myself and then two hours of 
> > frustration with tech support I returned the print, BUT I ended up 
> > learning a few things about these printers that may be helpful.  
> > First thing, the printer's calibration routine is not that good.  If 
> > you get banding after the automatic calibration, a second or third 
> > calibration can make it better.  Makes me think that the calibration 
> > is some sort of initial condition limited control loop cycle so it is 
> > hit or miss whether one calibration will actually get you as "good as 
> > it gets."  Second, there is an transparent acetate optical tracking 
> > band that has to be clean so the print heads know where they are.  A 
> > damp q-tip is all it takes to clean this up and it adds to the 
> > printer's accuracy.  Third, hp is apparently shipping a lot of bad 
> > #59 b&w carts.  After returning my 7660 to the store I went and 
> > tested the floor models 7660 and 7960 just to see if there really was 
> > some difference with b&w.  I used my newest cartridge which actually 
> > gave horizontal banding at home and guess what, the store's 7660 and 
> > 7960 both banded like old one so it seems that the real problem with 
> > my printer was that I had purchased two bad cartridges (from two 
> > different stores miles apart!).  As to differences, the 7960 looked 
> > much worse which I think dispells the rumors that b&w is better from 
> > the 7960.
> > 
> > HP said they will ship out some fresh carts so I am going to try 
> > again with a new 7660 this weekend.
> > 
> > So the moral of the story is that we still don't have hassle-free b&w 
> > unless we spend big bucks:(
> > 
> > mark
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Radimus" 
> > <radimus@p...> wrote:
> > > Hi, Mark.  What print quality setting are you using?  I just cranked
> > > out a B&W print on HP PPPG with the quality setting at Best and it 
> > has
> > > what looks like microbanding going vertically across the print (the
> > > print is landscape oriented).  Examining it with a loupe it is
> > > actually a weave pattern.  Without a loupe it has the look that you
> > > describe below.  However, with the quality set to "Maximum dpi" the
> > > pattern goes away, but there is now an even finer microbanding going
> > > horizontal to the print.  However, this artifact is only noticable 
> > to
> > > me if I practically stick my nose in the print.
> > > 
> > > Rad
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hahn"
> > > <markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
> > > > Ok, ...I guess they say that when something sounds too good to be 
> > > > true...
> > > > 
> > > > Have made a bunch of b&w prints with my new hp 7660.  All the 
> > smooth 
> > > > tone digital images print out near perfectly, but from film scans 
> > > > the "woven" dither pattern somehow blends with the random scatter 
> > of 
> > > > the grain and produces a hidious pattern of perceptible soft 
> > > > gridlines which almost look like microbanding.  Looking at the 
> > prints 
> > > > under a loupe shows that it is some interaction between the grain 
> > > > pattern and the dither pattern however.  The problem manifests 
> > itself 
> > > > most in something like a face in a portrait or other smoothly 
> > shaded 
> > > > objects and vanishes in more texture rich images or grain free 
> > > > images.  By comparison, the posterization issues with my 1160 
> > seem 
> > > > rather mild now.  I've tried upsampling to printer resolution 
> > prior 
> > > > to printings which changes the output, but doesn't correct it.  
> > > > Anyone else seeing this?  Anyone have a solution?  Unless I 
> > figure 
> > > > out a work around I will be returning the printer as the output 
> > from 
> > > > T400CN scans are not suitible for hanging in a gallery.
> > > > 
> > > > thanks for any advice,
> > > > 
> > > > mark