Digital BW, The Print

here is a link to a page showing the specific problems I had with my 
7660:

http://www.geocities.com/markhahn2000/7660test.html

examining samples that two list members sent to me shows no evidence 
of this type of problem.

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Radimus" 
<radimus@p...> wrote:
> On my 7660 I ran a calibration and three cleanings.  My findings 
have
> not changed very much.  With the quality setting at Best under a 
loupe
> I see a herring-bone pattern of which an example can be seen on the
> left here:
> 
> http://www.photo.net/comments/attachment/443167/printClose.jpg
> 
> With the quality setting to Maximum dpi my output looks very much 
like
>  the sample on the right.  Here's another example of what I see on 
my
> prints at max dpi:
> 
> http://www.photo.net/equipment/hp/hp7960/grayscalecompare1.jpg
> 
> As you can see in that example, there is a definite pattern compared
> to the Canon sample.  What I'm seeing on my prints is that the 
pattern
> will appear as extremely fine microbanding.  And I mean extremely
> fine.  I need to view the print from 5 inches away to actually see 
it.  
> 
> Something else I found is that the high resolution of this printer
> will bite you in the backside if you are printing from film scans 
and
> have oversharpened the image and/or have hairline scratches in the
> negative.  The former making the latter worse, obviously.
> 
> Rad
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Radimus"
> <radimus@p...> wrote:
> > I'll try some of those tricks on my 7660 and see what happens.  
I'm
> > interested to hear how things go when you get the new cartridges 
and
> > printer this weekend.
> > 
> > Rad
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hahn"
> > <markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
> > > I tried both, first the max, then the best, then upsampling to 
> > > printer resolution... in each case it *changed* the problem, 
but 
> > > didn't get rid of it.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, after hours of frustration by myself and then two hours 
of 
> > > frustration with tech support I returned the print, BUT I ended 
up 
> > > learning a few things about these printers that may be 
helpful.  
> > > First thing, the printer's calibration routine is not that 
good.  If 
> > > you get banding after the automatic calibration, a second or 
third 
> > > calibration can make it better.  Makes me think that the 
calibration 
> > > is some sort of initial condition limited control loop cycle so 
it is 
> > > hit or miss whether one calibration will actually get you 
as "good as 
> > > it gets."  Second, there is an transparent acetate optical 
tracking 
> > > band that has to be clean so the print heads know where they 
are.  A 
> > > damp q-tip is all it takes to clean this up and it adds to the 
> > > printer's accuracy.  Third, hp is apparently shipping a lot of 
bad 
> > > #59 b&w carts.  After returning my 7660 to the store I went and 
> > > tested the floor models 7660 and 7960 just to see if there 
really was 
> > > some difference with b&w.  I used my newest cartridge which 
actually 
> > > gave horizontal banding at home and guess what, the store's 
7660 and 
> > > 7960 both banded like old one so it seems that the real problem 
with 
> > > my printer was that I had purchased two bad cartridges (from 
two 
> > > different stores miles apart!).  As to differences, the 7960 
looked 
> > > much worse which I think dispells the rumors that b&w is better 
from 
> > > the 7960.
> > > 
> > > HP said they will ship out some fresh carts so I am going to 
try 
> > > again with a new 7660 this weekend.
> > > 
> > > So the moral of the story is that we still don't have hassle-
free b&w 
> > > unless we spend big bucks:(
> > > 
> > > mark
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Radimus" 
> > > <radimus@p...> wrote:
> > > > Hi, Mark.  What print quality setting are you using?  I just 
cranked
> > > > out a B&W print on HP PPPG with the quality setting at Best 
and it 
> > > has
> > > > what looks like microbanding going vertically across the 
print (the
> > > > print is landscape oriented).  Examining it with a loupe it is
> > > > actually a weave pattern.  Without a loupe it has the look 
that you
> > > > describe below.  However, with the quality set to "Maximum 
dpi" the
> > > > pattern goes away, but there is now an even finer 
microbanding going
> > > > horizontal to the print.  However, this artifact is only 
noticable 
> > > to
> > > > me if I practically stick my nose in the print.
> > > > 
> > > > Rad
> > > > 
> > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark 
Hahn"
> > > > <markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Ok, ...I guess they say that when something sounds too good 
to be 
> > > > > true...
> > > > > 
> > > > > Have made a bunch of b&w prints with my new hp 7660.  All 
the 
> > > smooth 
> > > > > tone digital images print out near perfectly, but from film 
scans 
> > > > > the "woven" dither pattern somehow blends with the random 
scatter 
> > > of 
> > > > > the grain and produces a hidious pattern of perceptible 
soft 
> > > > > gridlines which almost look like microbanding.  Looking at 
the 
> > > prints 
> > > > > under a loupe shows that it is some interaction between the 
grain 
> > > > > pattern and the dither pattern however.  The problem 
manifests 
> > > itself 
> > > > > most in something like a face in a portrait or other 
smoothly 
> > > shaded 
> > > > > objects and vanishes in more texture rich images or grain 
free 
> > > > > images.  By comparison, the posterization issues with my 
1160 
> > > seem 
> > > > > rather mild now.  I've tried upsampling to printer 
resolution 
> > > prior 
> > > > > to printings which changes the output, but doesn't correct 
it.  
> > > > > Anyone else seeing this?  Anyone have a solution?  Unless I 
> > > figure 
> > > > > out a work around I will be returning the printer as the 
output 
> > > from 
> > > > > T400CN scans are not suitible for hanging in a gallery.
> > > > > 
> > > > > thanks for any advice,
> > > > > 
> > > > > mark