Digital BW, The Print

Johnny,

You SHOULD get very close results using Epson driver + Curve and 
Piezo ICC.  The Piezo ICC appears to be nothing more than a linearing 
scheme.  Different papers behave differently, hence the unique ICC 
profiles (or unique curves).

The original Piezography used the following tone order C=dark, 
LC=dark, M=medium, LM=medium, Y=light.  The FS (and FSN) inks are 
designed to work with this order too.  Therefore it cannot be used 
with the Epson driver.  But, if you switch the FS ink order around, 
it can be used with the Epson driver.  For over 2 years now I have 
been using FS inks + Epson driver with C=dark, LC=medium, M=dark, 
LM=medium, Y=light.  This is SLIGHTELY different from the ICC tone 
order.

Hope this helps.

Shilesh 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
<jeades1@s...> wrote:
> Hello Paul and Shilesh,
> 
> I just came from Inkjetmall and this link shows the ink densities 
> graphically.
> 
> http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/bw/icc-positions.html
> 
> It looks just like the FSN ink densities from MIS. That inkset 
worked 
> just fine with the Epson driver using curves, and also with the 
> PiezographyBW software driver I purchased from Inkjetmall. Frm some 
> posts I've read here and elsewhere, I shouln't have gotten the same 
> results. Thoughts?
> 
> Your friend in photography,
> 
> Johnny Eades
> 
> 
> P.S> I think I send an empty message to the list. OOOOOPS!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" 
> <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> > Paul,
> > 
> > You are right about the new Piezo ICC ink order.  I filled one 
1280 
> > cartridge with FS inks in that order, and was very quickly able 
to 
> > create a grayscale adjustment curve to linearize a 21 step ramp.  
> The 
> > wedge was smoth and certainly no dots. So, the new Piezo ICC inks 
> > likely can be used very easily with the Epson driver, without 
> having 
> > to resort to ICC profiles or a partitioned workflow.
> > 
> > My understanding of the FS-E inks was that LC=1/3C and LM=1/3M.  
It 
> > is, therfore a true "hextone" inkset (overkill, IMHO), rather 
than 
> a 
> > quadtone inkset used for hextone printers.
> > 
> > Regards.
> > 
> > Shilesh 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > Johnny,
> > > 
> > > >Paul, Thanks for jumping in with your always welcomed input. 
> > > >I do have on hand the MIS FSN-Epson driver inkset bulk inks.
> > > 
> > > The original FSN is being upgraded to a UT-FSN, which is far 
more 
> > lightfast
> > > and also glossy paper compatible.
> > > 
> > > > I did receive the cartridges from inkjet mall today. 
> > > >I think I'll put them in and see what the Epson driver can do 
> with 
> > them. 
> > > >I still have some curves for the FSN inks, so I may try them.
> > > 
> > > The MIS FS-E light cyan may be darker than the Piezo/ICC setup.
> > > 
> > > > I hesitate to do this before getting the ICC profiles 
> > > >(currently on backorder).
> > > 
> > > Sure, don't use up your inks before trying the new system.
> > > 
> > > In the new Piezo system the ink order is, I believe, as 
follows, 
> > relative to
> > > the old quad Piezo inks:  C = C, LC = M, M = M, LM = Y, Y = Y.  
> The 
> > main
> > > difference from the FS-E may be that the FS-E used a darker 
LC.  
> > (The gap
> > > between Piezo C and M is very large.)  The bottom line is that 
> the 
> > old MIS
> > > FS-E curves may not be quite correct for the Piezo/ICC ink 
order.
> > > 
> > > >The whole set of FSN inks cost less than the two cartridges 
from
> > > >Inkjetmall, and that adds to my hesitation. 
> > > 
> > > Cost is an issue.
> > > 
> > > >If you have any ideas on using the Piezotone inks with 
> > > >PS and applying curves, I'd appreciate any comments.
> > > 
> > > The ICC system should work very well.
> > > 
> > > If I were designing a hextone monotone inkset for the 1280, 
> > however, I would
> > > not use so many light inks.  The Piezo yellow, for example, was 
> > needed to
> > > tame the old 3000.  In a 1280 I think it is lighter than 
> > necessary.  Having
> > > 2 inks of that density is, well, expensive water and a waste of 
> the
> > > printer's capabilities.  In a 1280, in fact, the M density is 
> light 
> > enough
> > > to carry the highlights and be very smooth.
> > > 
> > > (Note that in the UT2 system, the dark midtones are both close 
to 
> > the Piezo
> > > C density.  This is one reason the inkset can print on glossy 
> paper 
> > with a
> > > good dmax without the need for a Photo black -- a very nice 
> feature 
> > that
> > > 7600 and 9600 owners are especially going to appreciate.)
> > > 
> > > At any rate, if I were to write curves for the 1280 and the 
> > Piezo/ICC ink
> > > order, I might ignore the yellow-position ink (blue curve) for 
the
> > > highlights and just use it at the very end to turn on the black 
> > ink.  At
> > > most I might pull it down initially until about 10% and then 
turn 
> > if off
> > > until the black needed to be used.  I'd treat the M ink (green 
> > curve) as the
> > > main light ink.  Even that one would not be pulled on more than 
> > half way
> > > until the very end.  I'd probably let it go fairly flat in the 
> > middle.  The
> > > C ink (red curve) is where the midtone action is.  Even this 
one 
> > could start
> > > at the white point and stay at a low slope until the green 
curve 
> > started to
> > > level off.
> > > 
> > > I don't see me doing any curves for this inkset because it's 
not 
> > the way I
> > > would do things to start with.  I think the inkset has too much 
> > light ink in
> > > it and is too limited in its flexibility -- non-variable tones 
> and 
> > not
> > > glossy compatible.  Frankly, I've been curious what an ICC 
> approach 
> > could do
> > > with the UT2 inkset.
> > > 
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > > 
> > > For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> > > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ 
> > > 
> > > __________________________________
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul 
Roark" 
> > > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >The ICC profiles are specific to the piezotone ink sets and 
> > > therefore it is
> > > > >quite unlikely that they will suit other manufacturers inks.
> > > > 
> > > > MIS FS inks are the same densities.  So I suspect the MIS FS 
> > series 
> > > inks
> > > > would work fine as long as one makes sure the inks are in the 
> > > correct
> > > > positions.  The new Cone ink position is similar to (but 
maybe 
> > not 
> > > exactly
> > > > the same as) what MIS marketed a few years ago as the FS-E 
> > > inksets.  The
> > > > original Piezo hextone arrangement was not consistent with 
the 
> > > Epson driver
> > > > because it used the same density inks in the light and dark 
> > > positions of the
> > > > M & C spots.  With both the MIS FS-E and new Piezo ICC 
> > arrangement, 
> > > the idea
> > > > is to allow the Epson driver crossovers to work -- because 
> Epson 
> > > does an
> > > > excellent job of it.  
> > > > 
> > > > Paul
> > > > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > > > 
> > > > For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> > > > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ 
> > > > 
> > > > ____________________
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Johnny Eades [mailto:jeades1@s...] 
> > > > Sent: 24 February 2004 02:40
> > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Digital BW] Curves for Epson 1280 and Piezotone inks
> > > > 
> > > > I currently use BO printing after ordering the PiezographyBW 
> > > software 
> > > > and the MIS Full Spectrum Neutral inkset. I am receiving the 
> > > upgrade 
> > > > to PiezoICC profiles and have ordered the matching Piezotone 
> > > inkset. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
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