John, I've heard a couple of things that relate to very old papers holding up rather well. First, as you noted, most were made from fibers that are lignin free. The use of trees to make paper is apparently relatively new -- some say a result of the massive amounts of paper needed for the newspaper industry. I've also heard that some of the papers that have held up best were processed in water that had a relatively high calcium carbonate content. So, the paper ended up being naturally buffered even though the people who made the paper probably didn't have a clue that the water they were using was particularly suitable for what they were doing. I suspect the main weakness in the papers we use is the coating. If that coating pops off an archival cotton paper, the longevity of the cotton base is irrelevant. It's comforting that Wilhelm is now doing accelerated aging of the paper as well as the fade testing of the inks. However, accuracy of accelerated aging is said by some to be even more questionable than that of accelerated fading. Paul www.PaulRoark.com ______________________ -----Original Message----- From: john dean [mailto:deanwork2003@...] Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:28 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Pauls Paper Insights Thanks for the ideas about ob's, paper components, and lignin. I thought Hahnemuhle was coming out with a Photo Rag that was OB free. The new one is not that. I used to work in a museum where I was able to hold Rembrant etchings, 18th Century European lithographs, and Durer renaissance engravings in my hands and look at them closely. In the case of the Durer etchings, they were produced around 1500 and showed a little darkening, but not what I would describe as yellowing. The Rembrant's were a very slight warmish value, possibly from the very beginnig, but also not what I would describe as yellowish. I assume these and the other hundreds of ink prints from that collection were printed on a cotton based rag type paper, even in an era when almost nothing was known about conservation. They held up very well indeed. Similarly, in Asian art, the standard media was usually so called "rice paper" which was usually made from bamboo stalks, and later mulberry tree fiber. There are thousands of examples of prints in China and Japan done with carbon pigment in brush calligraphy paintings that have held up extremely well, in many cases without real staining, even in harsh, moist, and who knows what revolutionary conditions for many hundreds, if not thousands of years ( of course they didn't have the same air pollution that we contend with.) Wouldn't it be nice if conservators could analyze the artworks from both Western and Eastern sources that have survived well and outline for us what the properties are that make some more stable than others. Storage conditions would certainly contribute and would have to be factored in, as you suggest with your silver prints in the drawer. John Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
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RE: [Digital BW] Pauls Paper Insights
2004-10-04 by Paul Roark
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