Digital BW, The Print

I have printed on a sample sheet of Hahnemuhle White Velvet and like 
the results.  I notice that it has 25% rag content, but is supposed 
to be acid free.  Will this be as archival as a 100% cotton paper? I 
know it has OBAs.  I am currently using photorag with UT2 inks and 
want to be sure of similair longevity. 

Thanks,
Peter

I'm sure there's reason to believe an all cotton paper will outlast
others, but I still don't think it's a huge deal. None of our great
silver papers were rag, nor many of the papers for platinum. German
Etching is not Rag, and variouos Wilhelm tests with inks like
generations looked very good.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "zonepeter"
<zonepeter@a...> wrote:

> 
> I have printed on a sample sheet of Hahnemuhle White Velvet and like 
> the results.  I notice that it has 25% rag content, but is supposed 
> to be acid free.  Will this be as archival as a 100% cotton paper? I 
> know it has OBAs.  I am currently using photorag with UT2 inks and 
> want to be sure of similair longevity. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter

>... Hahnemuhle White Velvet ... has 25% rag content, but is 
>supposed to be acid free.  Will this be as archival as a 100% 
>cotton paper? I know it has OBAs.  I am currently using 
>photorag with UT2 inks and want to be sure of similair longevity. 

This is an interesting question.  My short answer would be that good
"acid-free," wood-based paper will probably be fine.  Some say that if there
is less than 1% lignin and more than 2% buffering, the paper will be
"archival." 

The long answer is below.

The dogma is the cotton (rag) is best due to its not having any lignin in
it.  Lignin is the hard part of tree wood that allows trees to grow tall.
Unfortunately, lignin puts out acidic by-products as it breaks down.  These
will destroy the paper unless mopped up by sufficient buffers.  Lignin is
also photo sensitive, turning yellow with light exposure whether or not the
paper is buffered.  But then the OBAs burning out with light exposure will
probably be the major source of paper yellowing, and even our carbon
pigments tend to yellow (even if they are not fading).  So, expect some
yellowing over time. 

The issue may be a question of how much lignin and how well it is buffered.
Newsprint is terrible even though it is buffered because it has the full
load of lignin in it, being basically ground-up trees.

Of course, making paper from wood is cheap, and removing lignin costs money.

Alpha cellulose is what the best wood-based paper is sometimes called.  It
is said to be pure cellulose, having had all the lignin removed.  I've heard
contradictory statements from "experts" as to whether it is possible to
remove all the lignin.

Many if not most of the good fiber-based darkroom papers are said to have
had an alpha cellulose paper base.  Because of the acid stop bath, they
presumably cannot have buffering (usually calcium carbonate) in them.  I've
tested my old fiber prints and found that the atmospheric acids from inside
my file cabinet were turning the un-mounted fiber prints yellow.  My Abbey
acid test pen confirmed that they had become acidic.  (Mounting on a
buffered mat board or using buffered interleaving would probably have helped
avoid this.)  

Buffered, wood-based inkjet papers would probably not be as sensitive to
air-borne acids as the fiber prints.  (Epson Enhance Matte is not in this
class, being acidic from the outset and not buffered.)  So, one could argue
that good "acid free" wood-based inkjet paper are more likely to be
"archival" than the old fiber prints.

Although this is speculative, there may be good things that come from
avoiding too much cotton. One has to ask why some if not all of the best
darkroom fiber papers did not use cotton.  Perhaps it was just cost, but
maybe the softness of cotton fibers makes it more difficult to have a
coating stay stuck to the paper.  I suspect the softness of the cotton
fibers is a source of problems.

Additionally, the huge irony may be that lignin turns out to be almost like
a buffer against oxidants and some atmospheric pollution that destroys
paper.  

So ... who knows?  I think excellent paper can be made from trees if
properly processed.  The real issue may relate to marketing and not
longevity.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks for the ideas about ob's, paper components, and lignin. I thought Hahnemuhle was 
coming out with a Photo Rag that was OB free. The new one is not that.

I used to work in a museum where I was able to hold Rembrant etchings, 18th Century 
European lithographs, and Durer renaissance engravings in my hands and look at them 
closely. In the case of the Durer etchings, they were produced around 1500 and showed a 
little darkening, but not what I would describe as yellowing. The Rembrant's were a very 
slight warmish value, possibly from the very beginnig, but also not what I would describe 
as  yellowish. I assume these and the other hundreds of ink prints from that collection 
were printed on a cotton based rag type paper, even in an era when almost nothing was 
known about conservation. They held up very well indeed.

Similarly, in Asian art, the standard media was usually so called "rice paper" which was 
usually made from bamboo stalks, and later mulberry tree fiber. There are thousands of 
examples of prints in China and Japan done with carbon pigment in brush calligraphy 
paintings that have held up extremely well, in many cases without real staining, even in 
harsh, moist, and who knows what  revolutionary conditions for many hundreds, if not 
thousands of years ( of course they didn't have the same air pollution that we contend 
with.)

Wouldn't it  be nice if conservators could analyze the artworks from both Western and 
Eastern sources that have survived well and outline for us what the properties are that 
make some more stable than others. Storage conditions would certainly contribute and 
would have to be factored in, as you suggest with your silver prints in the drawer.

John

Paul,

We sometimes forget that the carbon dioxide in the air (much of which was 
there long before man came along - indeed, without it man would not have 
come along!) dissolves in water to form carbonic acid - a weak acid. So 
unless water and carbon dioxide are excluded, most things will tend to 
become acid.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>


I've
tested my old fiber prints and found that the atmospheric acids from inside
my file cabinet were turning the un-mounted fiber prints yellow.  My Abbey
acid test pen confirmed that they had become acidic.

John,

I've heard a couple of things that relate to very old papers holding up
rather well.  First, as you noted, most were made from fibers that are
lignin free.  The use of trees to make paper is apparently relatively new --
some say a result of the massive amounts of paper needed for the newspaper
industry.

I've also heard that some of the papers that have held up best were
processed in water that had a relatively high calcium carbonate content.
So, the paper ended up being naturally buffered even though the people who
made the paper probably didn't have a clue that the water they were using
was particularly suitable for what they were doing.

I suspect the main weakness in the papers we use is the coating.  If that
coating pops off an archival cotton paper, the longevity of the cotton base
is irrelevant.  It's comforting that Wilhelm is now doing accelerated aging
of the paper as well as the fade testing of the inks.  However, accuracy of
accelerated aging is said by some to be even more questionable than that of
accelerated fading.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

______________________

-----Original Message-----
From: john dean [mailto:deanwork2003@...] 
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:28 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Pauls Paper Insights



Thanks for the ideas about ob's, paper components, and lignin. I thought
Hahnemuhle was 
coming out with a Photo Rag that was OB free. The new one is not that.

I used to work in a museum where I was able to hold Rembrant etchings, 18th
Century 
European lithographs, and Durer renaissance engravings in my hands and look
at them 
closely. In the case of the Durer etchings, they were produced around 1500
and showed a 
little darkening, but not what I would describe as yellowing. The Rembrant's
were a very 
slight warmish value, possibly from the very beginnig, but also not what I
would describe 
as  yellowish. I assume these and the other hundreds of ink prints from that
collection 
were printed on a cotton based rag type paper, even in an era when almost
nothing was 
known about conservation. They held up very well indeed.

Similarly, in Asian art, the standard media was usually so called "rice
paper" which was 
usually made from bamboo stalks, and later mulberry tree fiber. There are
thousands of 
examples of prints in China and Japan done with carbon pigment in brush
calligraphy 
paintings that have held up extremely well, in many cases without real
staining, even in 
harsh, moist, and who knows what  revolutionary conditions for many
hundreds, if not 
thousands of years ( of course they didn't have the same air pollution that
we contend 
with.)

Wouldn't it  be nice if conservators could analyze the artworks from both
Western and 
Eastern sources that have survived well and outline for us what the
properties are that 
make some more stable than others. Storage conditions would certainly
contribute and 
would have to be factored in, as you suggest with your silver prints in the
drawer.

John






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