Digital BW, The Print

David, I have avoided most of the problems many people have with B&W 
by using Vuescan, which AFAIK, has delivered great scans.  

My problem is with higher speed silver-based films like Tri-X and 
faster, where the grain becomes too clumpy and messes with 
tonaltiy.  My solution for the past few years has been to use 
chomogenic films like TCN and XP-2, which deliver really smooth, 
creamy results.

I gather that the newest Nikon scanners probably wouldn't improve 
the grain problem all that much, since they use LEDs as a light 
source.  But I wonder if the Minolta 5400 can do better.

I'm also curious if either scanner can pull better shadow details 
out of color slides than my Canon, which is quite lacking in that 
area.

Robert Ades

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David B. 
Brooks" <fotografx@m...> wrote:
> Robert,
> 
> The extra 1400dpi for one does result in smoother, better 
tonality. And as I
> mentioned regarding grain, the Minolta minimizes apparent 
graininess very
> considerably. Most of the problems a lot of people have scanning 
silver
> based B&W film comes from the fact the ramping algorithms in the 
driver
> software for B&W film are not well developed ­ most of the R&D by 
scanner
> companies has been applied to scanning color positives. My 
solution is to
> scan silver-based black and white as a positive in 48-bit RAW 
files, which I
> then correct in several steps before and after inverting from a 
negative
> image to a positive. This technique I wrote up as a how-to in 
Shutterbug
> magazine about 3 years ago.
> 
> I recently did a couple of hundred 17x22 prints testing the Epson 
Pro 4000,
> and many of them were 35mm images scanned with the Minolta 5400 
with the
> image size printed set at 15x20 inches. When I did all my printing 
in a wet
> darkroom I seldom printed 35mm larger than 11x14. Now some of 
those same
> images look even better, larger, after scanning and printing 
digitally.
> 
> Regards, David B. Brooks
> Shutterbug Magazine
> E-mail: fotografx@m...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/15/04 10:12 PM, "Robert" <la_native@h...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > David, thank you for your informative comments.  Given you 
positive
> > feelings about the Minolta, is there a noticeable difference 
compared
> > to the older Canon fs4000?  Yes, there's an additional 1,400dpi
> > resolution, but does that provide for better tonality?
> > 
> > With my Canon, the best film for scanning is the b&w 
chromogenics (TCN
> > and Xp-2).  Tri-x and most silver-based films don't look so 
great --
> > the grain tends to block up and mess with the tone transitions.
> > 
> > -Robert Ades
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David B. 
Brooks"
> > <fotografx@m...> wrote:
> >> > Robert,
> >> > 
> >> > Shortly after its announcement I had the opportunity to test 
and
> > report on
> >> > the Minolta Dimage Scan Elite 5400, which appeared in 
Shutterbug
> > magazine
> >> > some issues back. I also tested and reported on the Canon 
4000FS
> > some months
> >> > before. I have not reviewed a Nikon scanner for some time, 
not because I
> >> > have any issue with the scanner itself as it is very fine 
hardware, but
> >> > because the software is the worst in its class and the 
scanner is on
> > that
> >> > basis grossly over-priced.
> >> > 
> >> > The one outstanding feature, especially applied to scanning 
B&W
> > silver-based
> >> > film is the 5400dpi optical resolution. That is a distinct 
advantage not
> >> > just because it will natively support making 16x24 inch by 
300dpi
> > scans, but
> >> > the high resolution avoids a pattern interference problem 
with film
> > grain,
> >> > particularly with grainier film processed with acutance 
developers (low
> >> > sodium sulfite formula¹s) like Acufine and particularly 
Rodinal. In
> >> > addition, the Minolta has a Grain Dissolver feature which is
> > actually a very
> >> > fine diffusion filter, which combined with the scanners tube 
light
> > source
> >> > that also reduces apparent graininess and avoids highlight 
blocking,
> > which
> >> > can occur with some 35mm dedicated scanners with a more 
collimated light
> >> > source (like the difference printing with a diffusion versus 
and
> > condenser
> >> > enlarger).
> >> > 
> >> > If it makes any difference, being an old f... With 3/4 of my 
film
> > library in
> >> > B&W, my reaction after testing the Minolta was to ask for 
invoice
> > sending
> >> > Minolta a check instead of returning the scanner.
> >> > 
> >> > Regards, David B. Brooks
> >> > Shutterbug Magazine
> >> > E-mail: fotografx@m...
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On 10/15/04 8:07 PM, "Robert" <la_native@h...> wrote:
> >> > 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > I'm having the darnest time getting a comprehensive 
comparison of the
> >>> > > Nikon LS5000 and the Minolta 5400 compared to my Canon 
FS4000.  I know
> >>> > > the newer scanners have lots of new features, faster 
scanning, better
> >>> > > bit depth, ICE x 4, etc.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > What I want to know is, do either of these scanners work 
better with
> >>> > > B&W negatives, OR pull better shadow detail with slides, 
than the
> > Canon.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > I already have the Canon and can live with its 
limitations.  But I'd
> >>> > > consider upgrading if the image quality were noticeably 
better.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > All comments w/b appreciated!  Thanks!
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Robert Ades
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > 
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