Robert, Sorry, but first of all O don¹t think much at all for VueScan, but then you get what you pay for nuff said. However, from my experience none of the scanner software to date is really developed to deal with the unique attributes of a scanned silver-based B&W film negative. That¹s why I have for some time now just done a RAW 48-bit scan direct to a TIFF file and then do the correction and inversion in Photoshop. I grant the chromogenic B&W C-41 processed films are easy to scan. But dye clouds do not produce the fine acutance of a silver halide image. Grainier silver 35mm B&W films are a real challenge to scan, almost impossible with some dedicated 35mm scanners because the effect of the optics and light source tend to block highlights and there is an interference effect between grain and the pattern of pixels that exaggerates apparent graininess, particularly with 2700/2800dpi scanners, but still with 4000dpi scanners. Besides the advantage of 5400dpi optical resolution the Minolta Dimage Scan Elite 5400 has a Grain Dissolver feature, which is a very fine diffuser in the optical path which besides reducing graininess as a diffusion enlarger does, it also reduces highlight blocking. The higher Dmax of current 35mm scanners is a definite advantage in obtaining as much shadow detail as there is in a slide image. Regards, David B. Brooks Shutterbug Magazine E-mail: fotografx@mindspring.com On 10/16/04 11:31 AM, "Robert" <la_native@...> wrote: > > David, I have avoided most of the problems many people have with B&W > by using Vuescan, which AFAIK, has delivered great scans. > > My problem is with higher speed silver-based films like Tri-X and > faster, where the grain becomes too clumpy and messes with > tonaltiy. My solution for the past few years has been to use > chomogenic films like TCN and XP-2, which deliver really smooth, > creamy results. > > I gather that the newest Nikon scanners probably wouldn't improve > the grain problem all that much, since they use LEDs as a light > source. But I wonder if the Minolta 5400 can do better. > > I'm also curious if either scanner can pull better shadow details > out of color slides than my Canon, which is quite lacking in that > area. > > Robert Ades > > -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David B. > Brooks" <fotografx@m...> wrote: >> > Robert, >> > >> > The extra 1400dpi for one does result in smoother, better > tonality. And as I >> > mentioned regarding grain, the Minolta minimizes apparent > graininess very >> > considerably. Most of the problems a lot of people have scanning > silver >> > based B&W film comes from the fact the ramping algorithms in the > driver >> > software for B&W film are not well developed most of the R&D by > scanner >> > companies has been applied to scanning color positives. My > solution is to >> > scan silver-based black and white as a positive in 48-bit RAW > files, which I >> > then correct in several steps before and after inverting from a > negative >> > image to a positive. This technique I wrote up as a how-to in > Shutterbug >> > magazine about 3 years ago. >> > >> > I recently did a couple of hundred 17x22 prints testing the Epson > Pro 4000, >> > and many of them were 35mm images scanned with the Minolta 5400 > with the >> > image size printed set at 15x20 inches. When I did all my printing > in a wet >> > darkroom I seldom printed 35mm larger than 11x14. Now some of > those same >> > images look even better, larger, after scanning and printing > digitally. >> > >> > Regards, David B. Brooks >> > Shutterbug Magazine >> > E-mail: fotografx@m... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 10/15/04 10:12 PM, "Robert" <la_native@h...> wrote: >> > >>> > > >>> > > David, thank you for your informative comments. Given you > positive >>> > > feelings about the Minolta, is there a noticeable difference > compared >>> > > to the older Canon fs4000? Yes, there's an additional 1,400dpi >>> > > resolution, but does that provide for better tonality? >>> > > >>> > > With my Canon, the best film for scanning is the b&w > chromogenics (TCN >>> > > and Xp-2). Tri-x and most silver-based films don't look so > great -- >>> > > the grain tends to block up and mess with the tone transitions. >>> > > >>> > > -Robert Ades >>> > > >>> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David B. > Brooks" >>> > > <fotografx@m...> wrote: >>>>> > >> > Robert, >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > Shortly after its announcement I had the opportunity to test > and >>> > > report on >>>>> > >> > the Minolta Dimage Scan Elite 5400, which appeared in > Shutterbug >>> > > magazine >>>>> > >> > some issues back. I also tested and reported on the Canon > 4000FS >>> > > some months >>>>> > >> > before. I have not reviewed a Nikon scanner for some time, > not because I >>>>> > >> > have any issue with the scanner itself as it is very fine > hardware, but >>>>> > >> > because the software is the worst in its class and the > scanner is on >>> > > that >>>>> > >> > basis grossly over-priced. >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > The one outstanding feature, especially applied to scanning > B&W >>> > > silver-based >>>>> > >> > film is the 5400dpi optical resolution. That is a distinct > advantage not >>>>> > >> > just because it will natively support making 16x24 inch by > 300dpi >>> > > scans, but >>>>> > >> > the high resolution avoids a pattern interference problem > with film >>> > > grain, >>>>> > >> > particularly with grainier film processed with acutance > developers (low >>>>> > >> > sodium sulfite formula¹s) like Acufine and particularly > Rodinal. In >>>>> > >> > addition, the Minolta has a Grain Dissolver feature which is >>> > > actually a very >>>>> > >> > fine diffusion filter, which combined with the scanners tube > light >>> > > source >>>>> > >> > that also reduces apparent graininess and avoids highlight > blocking, >>> > > which >>>>> > >> > can occur with some 35mm dedicated scanners with a more > collimated light >>>>> > >> > source (like the difference printing with a diffusion versus > and >>> > > condenser >>>>> > >> > enlarger). >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > If it makes any difference, being an old f... With 3/4 of my > film >>> > > library in >>>>> > >> > B&W, my reaction after testing the Minolta was to ask for > invoice >>> > > sending >>>>> > >> > Minolta a check instead of returning the scanner. >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > Regards, David B. Brooks >>>>> > >> > Shutterbug Magazine >>>>> > >> > E-mail: fotografx@m... >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > On 10/15/04 8:07 PM, "Robert" <la_native@h...> wrote: >>>>> > >> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>>> > >>> > > I'm having the darnest time getting a comprehensive > comparison of the >>>>>>> > >>> > > Nikon LS5000 and the Minolta 5400 compared to my Canon > FS4000. I know >>>>>>> > >>> > > the newer scanners have lots of new features, faster > scanning, better >>>>>>> > >>> > > bit depth, ICE x 4, etc. >>>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>>> > >>> > > What I want to know is, do either of these scanners work > better with >>>>>>> > >>> > > B&W negatives, OR pull better shadow detail with slides, > than the >>> > > Canon. >>>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>>> > >>> > > I already have the Canon and can live with its > limitations. But I'd >>>>>>> > >>> > > consider upgrading if the image quality were noticeably > better. >>>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>>> > >>> > > All comments w/b appreciated! 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Message
Re: [Digital BW] Film Scanners
2004-10-17 by David B. Brooks