Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@t...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
> <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > 
> >...it was totally redundant and a time drag to ever send this file 
> > to the Epson printer as 16 bit because it would be converted to 8
> bit at printing anyway. 
> > So? How far off am I? Tyler suggests that it is not doing this at
> output rip time.
> 
> John, don't confuse the printer with the driver or RIP.

I am not all confused. You may implement the software in 16bit but
says nothing at all about the enumeration of ink patterns. You may
think you have fine distinctions in the ink patterns determined by
droplet size and placement but after dotgain has had its day etc., how
many real repeatably measurably different densities do you have.
Indeed as I have said if there is fine grain change is it even monotonic.

With just a simple thing as changing the size of a swatch down near
the black point I am seeing changes in L of about 4. 

> As posted here, IJC/OPM utilizes 16 bit input. To the same printer, we
> know the Epson driver does not and PS will convert to 8 for it on the
> fly. I'm not sure about other RIPs and drivers. StudioPrint accepts a
> 16 bit file, whether or not it takes full advantage of it I don't
> know. Also, based on what Roy said, we know QTR does not utilize 16
bits.
> This has nothing to do with the printer, but everything to do with the
> driver or RIP being used.
> 
> > 
> > I'm still confused - if you send a fine drum or digital camera file
> scan to the Epson printer ( 
> > without a rip or specialized software ) in 16 bit color, is there
> any difference visible 
> > difference between that print and the same file going to the printer
> as an 8 bit color file? 
> 
> No, since you are using the Epson driver it will be converted to 8
> anyway behind your back
> 
> > 
> > My comment to the class is that we can scan in 16 bit, now we can do
> all the PS 
> > manipulations in 16 bit, but WE can't print from it with any added
> value? Is this true or 
> > not? I would think that outputting to film would be more of a
> process that could utilize it 
> > but ink on paper? Would you even see that extra data? 
> 
> That's what is up to all of us to determine for ourselves based on
> particular methods, materials, and eyes.
> 
> > 
> > My final question is: even with this specialized rip and profiling
> application that this 
> > company claims they have, that ya'll are refering to, is the printer
> mechanism capable of 
> > utilizing this extra color ( and tonal ) depth?
> 
> Concievably, the hardware's performance will always be improved by
> better data. But in a practical sense it's still up to us to determine
> if it's a visual improvement. Still, the printer will be getting the
> same kind of data it always has, it's only in the processing of that
> data in the driver that a possible benifit of hi bit comes into play.
> Also, extra depth and color is not what will likely happen, but finer
> distinction of the tones in gamut, the in betweens.
> 
> > From the comments below I would think not, 
> > but I'm very sure that I have no idea. Nor do I know if rips like
> Studio Print or Imageprint 
> > have the ability to utilize 16 bit is some different way that the
> generic Epson drivers do. To 
> > me this would seem like a major thing to consider these days with
> everything capturing in 
> > 16 bit, but I never hear anyone discussing it.
> 
> How these products make use of bit depth internally seems to bring
> little comment. Either something proprietory is going on there or they
> are really utilizing 8. Or, as is often the case, it's difficult to
> get any comments about these kinds of issues from any of them.
> Frankly, drivers utilizing 8 bit like the Epson driver and QTR do such
> a good job under most normal curcumstances that I'm not sure if it's a
> determining issue when purchasing.
> Interested people with testing time on their hands and IJC/OPM could
> do some tests I suppose.
> By the way, those using Cones profiles may benifit from high bit. The
> conversion to print profile is yanking things around pretty good and
> could be lossy. It turns out PS converts to 8 just before handing off
> to the printer, so the profile conversion will occur in hi bit just
> before.
> Tyler