Digital BW, The Print

The MoMA in NYC buys two color prints of each image they want 
in their collection.  One for display and one for dark storage.  If a 
buyer is nervous about print longevity, offer to sell him a second 
copy at a reduced fee for dark storage.  That's a win-win situation 
as we get a chance to sell more art.

Frank

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Scott Hendershot" 
<scott@p...> wrote:
> Why can't we just use a "Silver" pigmented ink?
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Flashner" <tflash@e...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] print sales - longevity claims?
> 
> 
> > I do as Julian does. Unfortunately I don't see independent 
tests for the
> > carbon quads, but I take these factors into account and do 
the best I can
> > with making something meaningful from them:
> >
> > Enhanced Generations on Hahnemuhle paper is at 100 
Wilhelm years and
> > counting, and they use a less stable black than the Piezo or 
MIS VM black.
> >
> > 100 W. years is longer than most color photographs are 
rated by W.
> >
> > I base my claim on using carbon pigments on H. papers.
> >
> > Color pigments are likely to be less stable than black carbon 
pigments,
> thus
> > carbon quads are likely to last longer than color pigs, which 
already test
> > longer than most color photographic materials (Perhaps dye 
transfer lasts
> > longer).
> >
> > I know (know? well no I don't know) these prints won't last as 
long as
> > silver BW prints because I'm told conditions which fade 
these guys
> > appreciably don't budge silver prints.
> >
> > So all told I feel Julian is about right in a ball park sense. At 
least it
> > shows it's in there among other collected mediums...
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > >> I'm uneasy with Julian's answer, partly because I don't 
think we
> > >> should say anything on our own authority because I don't 
think we
> > >> know. I think we should point people to credible 
independent testers
> > >> such as RIT and Wilhelm. If we do, won't they find color 
prints with
> > >> longer lifespans than BW? My guess is that's only 
because some ink
> > >> manufacturers have been investing in the testing longer 
than others
> > >> or have been testing color but not quadtones. I think it 
would take a
> > >> fairly long and elaborate answer to include such 
interpretive notes,
> > >> and an even longer and more elaborate one to say 
anything very
> > >> encouraging about ink-and-paper combinations not 
tested by any third
> > >> party. That would be good to do, I think, and might result in
> > >> something useful as a handout or enclosure, but I'm 
afraid it's a
> > >> major project.
> > >>
> > >> Sam
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Whenever I'm asked I always say better than colour and 
not as good as
> > >>> selenium toned silver.
> > >>>
> > >>> Julian
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "frankg_photo" <frank@f...>
> > >>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:24 PM
> > >>> Subject: [Digital BW] print sales - longevity claims?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> when you sell your "carbon pigment" prints (MIS or 
Piez), what claims
> > >>>> can you safely make regarding the archival issue.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> How long can you safely claim the print's integrity under 
'normal"
> > >>>> hanging conditions in a home environment (which I'd 
say is a fair mix
> > >>>> of ambient(uv) & artificial (mostly tungsten) light.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Dark storage, pollutant free, humidity controlled 
environments are,
> > >>>> of course, a little different.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I realise this would be specific depending on which 
paper has been
> > >>>> used; but I'm just looking for some guidance- or a 
ballpark range.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> thanks
> > >>>> frank
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls
> and
> > > other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > >>
> > >> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >>
> > >> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > >> - Include your full name with your message.
> > >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to
> keep
> > > them short.
> > >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change 
the subject
> header.
> > >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal 
attacks or
> "flames."
> > >> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > >> - Before posting a question, search the message 
archives and the
> various
> > > resources on the homepage.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls and
> other
> > > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to
> keep
> > > them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal 
attacks or
> "flames."
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives 
and the various
> > > resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives 
and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >