Digital BW, The Print

In this month's B&W Magazine (I think that's what it's
called), they feature several photographers, three of
which use digital technology.  
 One of the artists called his prints "Carbon Pigment
Giclee."  He said there are tests that report 100+
year print life, but that "no one really knows for
sure" how long these prints will last.  All he really
said was that he felt extremely confident in his
prints.  They didn't mention which specific inks or
papers he uses.
 His approach was to site one(or some) test but then
freely admit the uncertainty of the whole thing and
close with a personal statement about longevity in
regards to his reputation.  I don't think that's a bad
approach.  I would probably put more weight on the
test and less on the "no one knows for sure" part, but
offer up both.  
 OTOH.. would it be valid to compare traditional photo
print test results with inkjet test results?  "Under
the same conditions, carbon prints lasted xx times
longer than xx traditional photo prints."  These are
entirely different chemicals, etc. under specific sets
of conditions..  ie. do we know of any conditions in
which a traditional photo print can outlast a carbon
print? 

  -daniel perez



--- Nij <nigel@...> wrote:
> Sam,
> 
> But no-one knows how RIT and Wilhelm's tests will
> stand-up in the long run
> either! Many people suggest that attempting to
> extrapolate a 'display life'
> from xx minutes under a strong lamp is just plain
> wrong. Well, I understand
> it is inevitable that someone should do that - but I
> fear it leads to too
> many assumptions on the part of the purchaser or
> even the person doing the
> printing! Some longevity 'reports' do not even state
> clearly what paper they
> were using - let alone all the other factors that
> are expected - or even
> 'batch number of ink tested' (if colours can drift
> slightly between batches,
> and I would assume they can - what would the impact
> be on the longevity?) My
> understanding is that ink tests now tend to be done
> on a single colour basis
> (e.g. test the life of the Yellow ink separate from
> th Cyan ink) which is
> great until you hear that mixing might occur of inks
> when you print a
> photographic image, which could result in less
> stable compounds. e.g.
> perhaps one ink prints a longer-lasting Red than
> another ink-set.
> 
> As little as 6 months ago - I would estimate that
> the general perception on
> the groups I browse was that if an ink lasted well
> on one paper - it would
> do so on another! Even this has now been taken away
> from us with the strong
> differentiation between coatings for pigments and
> surfaces most appropriate
> for dyes - and how having the wrong surface for the
> ink can negatively
> effect longevity.
> 
> I think even some people who should know better
> would be surprised if their
> '100+ year ink' didn't last on tissue paper ;)
> 
> BUT we also have to remember, whatever our own
> personal goals, that
> Watercolours are going to fade... that dyed fabrics
> are going to fade (a
> local framing shop recently started selling pictures
> made up from  many
> different fabrics - I wonder how many people asked
> how long the colour on
> them would last!)
> 
> So one point to make is  - you have to find a
> solution you are happy with
> for now, that you can justify without being overly
> bullish about it's
> probably lifetime... (i.e. self satisfaction)... and
> then you need to find a
> way to 'sell' that decision to your customers who
> will probably just want to
> be told something like a number of years expected!
> In that sense, RIT and
> Wilhelm results are very useful, even though they
> tell only a small fraction
> of the story, I am sure!
> 
> Best regards,
> Nij
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sam A. McCandless [mailto:samcc@...]
> > Sent: 19 December 2001 15:13
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] print sales - longevity
> claims?
> >
> >
> > I'm uneasy with Julian's answer, partly because I
> don't think we
> > should say anything on our own authority because I
> don't think we
> > know. I think we should point people to credible
> independent testers
> > such as RIT and Wilhelm. If we do, won't they find
> color prints with
> > longer lifespans than BW? My guess is that's only
> because some ink
> > manufacturers have been investing in the testing
> longer than others
> > or have been testing color but not quadtones. I
> think it would take a
> > fairly long and elaborate answer to include such
> interpretive notes,
> > and an even longer and more elaborate one to say
> anything very
> > encouraging about ink-and-paper combinations not
> tested by any third
> > party. That would be good to do, I think, and
> might result in
> > something useful as a handout or enclosure, but
> I'm afraid it's a
> > major project.
> >
> > Sam
> >
> 
> 
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