Digital BW, The Print

This means war!
:)
Mark

On Nov 10, 2007, at 12:13 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:

> Mark, I have heard about a new attempt that might be implemented by  
> Epson.
> Similar to how you can track a computer, either just the HD or the  
> processor
> #, Epson will track the carts by id. When that cart has been used  
> up, no
> amount of re chipping will allow it to show ink again.
>
>
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street
> Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> Skype ejprinter
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
>> Mark
>> Savoia
>> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:41 AM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re:MIS Newsletter
>>
>> With all the software hacking and computer viruses in this world,
>> does anyone think that a "firmware solution" will be created by a
>> smart programer to trick the Epsons into thinking their carts are in
>> the printer and thus allow the third party ink/cart makers to make
>> some cart/chip that does not infringe on Epson? Fight fire with fire?
>> It would certainly take years for Epson to get around that. Perhaps a
>> CIS that connects directly into the ink lines, no carts at all.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Paul Roark wrote:
>>
>>> (Some rambling thoughts ...)
>>>
>>> Steve Kale wrote, in part:
>>>
>>>>> What¹s wrong with a company (anyone) wanting to protect and
>>>>> generate a return from its intellectual capital?
>>>
>>> That's indirectly one of the legal issues: How far does the  
>>> protection
>>> (legal monopoly) extend?  Several courts have stated that the
>>> monopoly does
>>> not extend into adjacent markets, including after market
>>> replacement parts,
>>> which seems similar to aftermarket ink sales.
>>>
>>>>> Nothing wrong with shopping around for a free lunch but
>>>>> you should be happy you had a free lunch this far.
>>>
>>> I don't want to see Epson damaged by this any more than I want to
>>> see the
>>> aftermarket ink and cartridge sellers damaged.  I think the
>>> challenge here
>>> is to come up with a win-win strategy. I agree we should not expect
>>> to free
>>> ride on anyone, and at the low end we probably have been.
>>>
>>> Being realistic, what may happen is that Epson's actions will cut
>>> off the
>>> mass market of cheap, pre-filled carts, while more sophisticated and
>>> determined people -- including probably the real photo  
>>> enthusiasts as
>>> opposed to average snap shooters -- will find ways to circumvent the
>>> problem, such as buying the empty carts on eBay or from an oversees
>>> seller
>>> and re-filling.  Re-filling carts seems like a problem Epson will
>>> have to
>>> fight by making the carts very re-fill un-friendly.  Blocking all  
>>> the
>>> easy-refill carts from overseas will probably be too expensive to
>>> bother
>>> with.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tony Wells wrote, in part:
>>>
>>>> ... Low useage amateurs would be worse off while professional
>>>> printers would be better off,
>>>
>>> In the original IBM case where their tying of punch card sales to  
>>> the
>>> business machines was declared an illegal "tying" agreement, the
>>> economic
>>> justification for the IBM conduct was said to be that the punch
>>> cards were a
>>> method of "metering" usage.  The way the high volume users paid
>>> more than
>>> the low volume users, which seemed like a fair way to more closely
>>> equate
>>> price with the value of the machine to the user.
>>>
>>> If the scenario of the more sophisticated people more easily
>>> getting around
>>> the ban happens, it may end up that the higher volume users in the
>>> real
>>> world figure out how to avoid the meter, while the less
>>> sophisticated pay
>>> the premium.
>>>
>>> I have assumed Epson, in fact, is not selling the more sophisticated
>>> machines at a loss.  The Epson rep who visited me the week before
>>> they filed
>>> the ITC matter seemed mostly concerned with the low end.  The 220
>>> was the
>>> printer we discussed the most in this regard.  He stated Epson lost
>>> money on
>>> those sales, and to compound the damage, the 220 was so good it was
>>> seen as
>>> cannibalizing the sales of the profitable, more expensive printers.
>>>
>>> While B&W ink sales are hardly the main focus of Epson's concern,
>>> I'd be
>>> rather happy to see a solution that allowed Epson to compete head
>>> to head
>>> with the others that are doing this same thing at the 260 level
>>> (letter or
>>> A4 size) if the 13" or 1800-2400 and up level was wide open.
>>>
>>> Epson has made some fine printers for our purposes.  I hope they
>>> continue to
>>> do so.  It would sure be nice if both sides saw each other as
>>> partners as
>>> opposed to adversaries.
>>>
>>> As a Hasselblad rep once said to me: photographers tend to be
>>> creative and
>>> cheap.  I can't see Epson succeeding in keeping at least the B&W
>>> enthusiasts
>>> in their proprietary, expensive box.  It's just not going to happen.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> www.PaulRoark.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>>> resources as they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
>>> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
>>> visiting this same page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
>>> to keep them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed
>>> from the membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
>>> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>>> removed from the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
>>> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
>>> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”
>>> in the Files section:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
>>> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
>>> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
>>> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
>>> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
>>> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL
>>> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
>>> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
>>> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO
>>> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
>>> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
>>> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>> resources as
>> they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
>> wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
>> this same
>> page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
>> to keep
>> them short.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
>> flames.
>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>> membership without notice.
>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of  
>> digital B&W
>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
>> removed from
>> the membership.
>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
>> Owner
>> and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
>> section:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>> PRINT
>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
>> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
>> LIABLE TO
>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE  
>> BEEN
>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)  
>> THE USE
>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR  
>> DATA; (iii)
>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>