Digital BW, The Print

Mark, I have heard about a new attempt that might be implemented by Epson.
Similar to how you can track a computer, either just the HD or the processor
#, Epson will track the carts by id. When that cart has been used up, no
amount of re chipping will allow it to show ink again. 



Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
http://ericneilsenphotography.com
Skype ejprinter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Savoia
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:41 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re:MIS Newsletter
> 
> With all the software hacking and computer viruses in this world,
> does anyone think that a "firmware solution" will be created by a
> smart programer to trick the Epsons into thinking their carts are in
> the printer and thus allow the third party ink/cart makers to make
> some cart/chip that does not infringe on Epson? Fight fire with fire?
> It would certainly take years for Epson to get around that. Perhaps a
> CIS that connects directly into the ink lines, no carts at all.
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Nov 10, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Paul Roark wrote:
> 
> > (Some rambling thoughts ...)
> >
> > Steve Kale wrote, in part:
> >
> >>> What¹s wrong with a company (anyone) wanting to protect and
> >>> generate a return from its intellectual capital?
> >
> > That's indirectly one of the legal issues: How far does the protection
> > (legal monopoly) extend?  Several courts have stated that the
> > monopoly does
> > not extend into adjacent markets, including after market
> > replacement parts,
> > which seems similar to aftermarket ink sales.
> >
> >>> Nothing wrong with shopping around for a free lunch but
> >>> you should be happy you had a free lunch this far.
> >
> > I don't want to see Epson damaged by this any more than I want to
> > see the
> > aftermarket ink and cartridge sellers damaged.  I think the
> > challenge here
> > is to come up with a win-win strategy. I agree we should not expect
> > to free
> > ride on anyone, and at the low end we probably have been.
> >
> > Being realistic, what may happen is that Epson's actions will cut
> > off the
> > mass market of cheap, pre-filled carts, while more sophisticated and
> > determined people -- including probably the real photo enthusiasts as
> > opposed to average snap shooters -- will find ways to circumvent the
> > problem, such as buying the empty carts on eBay or from an oversees
> > seller
> > and re-filling.  Re-filling carts seems like a problem Epson will
> > have to
> > fight by making the carts very re-fill un-friendly.  Blocking all the
> > easy-refill carts from overseas will probably be too expensive to
> > bother
> > with.
> >
> >
> > Tony Wells wrote, in part:
> >
> >> ... Low useage amateurs would be worse off while professional
> >> printers would be better off,
> >
> > In the original IBM case where their tying of punch card sales to the
> > business machines was declared an illegal "tying" agreement, the
> > economic
> > justification for the IBM conduct was said to be that the punch
> > cards were a
> > method of "metering" usage.  The way the high volume users paid
> > more than
> > the low volume users, which seemed like a fair way to more closely
> > equate
> > price with the value of the machine to the user.
> >
> > If the scenario of the more sophisticated people more easily
> > getting around
> > the ban happens, it may end up that the higher volume users in the
> > real
> > world figure out how to avoid the meter, while the less
> > sophisticated pay
> > the premium.
> >
> > I have assumed Epson, in fact, is not selling the more sophisticated
> > machines at a loss.  The Epson rep who visited me the week before
> > they filed
> > the ITC matter seemed mostly concerned with the low end.  The 220
> > was the
> > printer we discussed the most in this regard.  He stated Epson lost
> > money on
> > those sales, and to compound the damage, the 220 was so good it was
> > seen as
> > cannibalizing the sales of the profitable, more expensive printers.
> >
> > While B&W ink sales are hardly the main focus of Epson's concern,
> > I'd be
> > rather happy to see a solution that allowed Epson to compete head
> > to head
> > with the others that are doing this same thing at the 260 level
> > (letter or
> > A4 size) if the 13" or 1800-2400 and up level was wide open.
> >
> > Epson has made some fine printers for our purposes.  I hope they
> > continue to
> > do so.  It would sure be nice if both sides saw each other as
> > partners as
> > opposed to adversaries.
> >
> > As a Hasselblad rep once said to me: photographers tend to be
> > creative and
> > cheap.  I can't see Epson succeeding in keeping at least the B&W
> > enthusiasts
> > in their proprietary, expensive box.  It's just not going to happen.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
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> >
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> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
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> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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