Digital BW, The Print

The only (potential) problem here is the quality of the print (person
printing?). If one were able to get all of the information from the neg
onto the print, that would be great. 
However, a long time ago when I took a Yosemite Workshop with Ansel
Adams, he said that a very good printer (were talking about people here,
not machines) with an excellent negative could produce a print with 72
discernable tones from black to white.
Given that we are working with 256 values in the digital form and that a
good scanner can produce a very wide tonal range, I am wondering about
the comparison of print v negative scanning.
Personally, I can produce an inkjet print from a film scan that is
superior (i.e. subtle detail in highlight and shadows) to a silver print
from the same neg. I consider myself (pat on back here) a pretty good
silver printer but since I've gone digital, I haven't made a silver
print.the inkjet stuff is too good.
 
Stan Shire
Associate Professor/Department Chair
Photographic Imaging
Community College of Philadelphia
Adobe Photoshop 6 A.C.E.
 
215 751-8320
 <mailto:sshire@...> sshire@...
-----Original Message-----
From: culturalvisions [mailto:frank@...] 
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 11:01 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Flatbed scanning b&w prints
 
I don't think we should automatically assume that a negative 
scanner makes a better inkjet print than a flatbed scan from a 
glossy silver print.

See Ralph Gibson's interview in the Feb. Shutterbug for his 
support of flatbed scanning.  

My pro scanner friend with a Scitek scanner is always telling me 
to bring him prints rather than negs as he can do a better job 
with them.

My own experience with a Minolta Pro indicates that my little 
Epson flatbed 636 makes better scans from b/w prints than the 
$3000 Minolta can do from the same 6X7 and 645 negatives.  
The negative scanner introduces too much grain aliasing into 
the equation.

Frank

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "dellaellingson" 
<dellaellingson@y...> wrote:
> Thanks Martin.
> 
> -Della 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> > Della,
> > 
> > Check out both these sites. Especially the second one as 
this gives some of
> > the workflow.
> > 
> > http://www.lenswork.com/index2.html
> > 
> > http://www.danburkholder.com/
> > 
> > If you give any of this a try, please share your experiences. I 
would like
> > to more than just inkjet info on the list.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Martin
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "dellaellingson" <dellaellingson@y...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Flatbed scanning b&w prints
> > 
> > 
> > > Martin,
> > >
> > > Do you have the web address for Lenswork's Special 
Editions? I am
> > interested to know more about this.
> > >
> > > -Della
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley"
> > <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> > > > David,
> > > >
> > > > Scanning prints is a legit method of getting your photos 
into digital
> > form.
> > > > The "Special Edition" silver fiber prints sold by Lenswork 
are produce
> > using
> > > > this method (although I believe they use a drum 
scanner). The selected
> > > > prints are scanned and the resulting file is output on a 
3600 dpi image
> > > > setter to make contact negatives.
> > > >
> > > > The results are excellent and I cannot distinguish them 
from an enlarged
> > > > silver print. I have a Jay Dussard and a Bruce Barnbaum 
print. Excellent
> > > > prints. Anyone wanting to produce silver prints from their 
digital files
> > > > should check this out.
> > > >
> > > > Having said all that I would still recommend that 
scanning the original
> > > > negatives as the best way to reduce the number of 
reproduction steps,
> > since
> > > > there is lose of information each time an image is 
duplicated. The loss,
> > as
> > > > you say, may be so small that it is not noticeable. You 
would really
> > have to
> > > > do a side-by-side of finished prints produced by both 
methods to know
> > for
> > > > sure.
> > > >
> > > > Martin Wesley
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <daschkenas@a...>
> > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 5:30 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Flatbed scanning b&w prints
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > With all of the talk about film scanners, thought I would 
share what
> > I'm
> > > > doing.  I've been flatbed scanning b&w prints ,( from the 
past 25 years)
> > > > with a UMAX Mirage SEII, both 8x10 and 11x14 inch prints 
as it will scan
> > > > print sizes up to 12 x 17.  I am scanning so that I print at a 
minimum
> > of
> > > > 300 dpi.  I'm making mostly 15 inch wide prints, from 
prints done in
> > various
> > > > formats thru the years, 35mm, 2,1/4, and 4x5 & 8x10 
contact prints... I
> > am
> > > > getting, which I believe, is great quality.  In most cases I 
like the
> > inkjet
> > > > print better than the original, and I am a very good wet 
print maker.
> > > > People are telling me that I am sacrificing quality by 
scanning prints,
> > but
> > > > quite frankly I know that should be the case, but I can't 
imagine seeing
> > any
> > > > more detail in the print than I am seeing now. ( I sent a 
few prints to
> > > > Jerry Olson to view and I don't believe that he would have 
known the
> > prints
> > > > were done by scanning a print rather than a negative.)
> > > > > It is much easier for me to access the prints rather than 
search thru
> > 25
> > > > years worth of negatives, which is the main reason I'm 
doing it this
> > way,
> > > > also, tho because the prints look so darn good.
> > > > > So for those of you wanting to convert prints that you 
have on hand,
> > don't
> > > > overlook flatbed scanning, you don't need that $5000.00 
scanner to
> > produce
> > > > great looking work.
> > > > > I'm printing b&w with a 1280, CIS and MIS 6 color dyes 
on LPM.
> > > > > David Aschkenas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls
> > and
> > > > other resources as they are often being updated. The 
page is at:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 




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