Digital BW, The Print

Thanks Paul,

I can see you've really looked into all this. It's pretty thought provoking.

From that Gray Vivera data sheet they even have the proportions, which is interesting that they would provide that.  

Never heard of 2-prrolidone. and  Triethanolamine. Looks like they might be the colorants that neutralize the carbon black. And there is a chemical called Alkyldiol, that they describe as Proprietary. That sounds mysterious.  It accounts for 7.5% of this mixture ( wetting agent?), with water making up 80% and the Carbon pigment less than 1% by weight. And that is the gray, I assume and not the LIGHT gray, which would be more like less than 1/2 percent carbon? and a light light gray even less....

So, if you take the HP gray dilute it with gyclol,  distilled water, and a wetting agent, that's it? I wonder why so much of that Alkyldiol is necessary?

john





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <pr_roark@...> wrote:
>
> "john dean" <deanwork2003@> wrote:
> >... 
> > What I'm trying to find out is, what IS the base? 
> >The Vivera base 
> 
> See the HP MSDS for the grey ink at http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/productdata/pdf/ij_c9451a_us_eng_v1.pdf
> 
> >and the "C6" base.
> 
> The "C6" base is water, glycerol, Photoflow (propylene glycol and alcohol wetting agents), with Edwal LFN wetting agent (alcohols) optional.
> 
> > I'm suspect of anything that is laid down on the paper changing 
> > or staining over time.
> 
> I agree.  The water and alcohol surfactants will just evaporate.  The glycols will very slowly evaporate from the photo papers -- that's the source of the fog.  The glycerol and glycols appear to have an affinity for cellulose and may just stay in the matte papers forever.
> 
> I've tried to get answers from chemists as to what will happen to them, and I have not had consistent answers.  While none think something bad will happen, the "washed Arches" a couple of us are pursuing is, in part, to get these substances out of the print.
> 
> For the C6 base, I simply used materials there were the most common and safest.  The formula is very close to Epson gloss optimizer.  
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>