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Digital BW, The Print

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Thread

Blurb and B&W

Blurb and B&W

2010-12-07 by KentB

Hi Folks

I have had a bit of an issue with Blurb printing, and am wondering if anyone has suitable solutions to my issues.  Blurb unfortunately says that B&W is a big problem for them...but I refuse to believe great B&W cannot be accomplished.

Blurbs recommendation is sending a totally greyscale image to the press.  The output is good, but lifeless.  Strikes me it should be possible to get great toned images from Blurb.

I tried using rgb curves then sending it to the press to get a subtle tone.  OK, blurb runs seem to vary dramatically...so one book will be cool and one book warm.

My next attempt will be to go to Duotone and then Convert to CMYK.  Anyone have any experience sending a Duotone to Blurb?

I know, I know...Blurb may never be anything as nice as a Quadtone press.  But I know they do have a great press capable of decent output.  I am looking to get the optimal B&W workflow for Blurb.


Thanks

Phil

Re: [Digital BW] Blurb and B&W

2010-12-07 by Michael King

isn't a big problem with Blurb that you are never running on the same press
twice as they farm out the jobs to whoever .... so you basically cannot
optimise by trial and error?

Mike

On 7 December 2010 22:12, KentB <philip@accentonrugs.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Folks
>
> I have had a bit of an issue with Blurb printing, and am wondering if
> anyone has suitable solutions to my issues. Blurb unfortunately says that
> B&W is a big problem for them...but I refuse to believe great B&W cannot be
> accomplished.
>
> Blurbs recommendation is sending a totally greyscale image to the press.
> The output is good, but lifeless. Strikes me it should be possible to get
> great toned images from Blurb.
>
> I tried using rgb curves then sending it to the press to get a subtle tone.
> OK, blurb runs seem to vary dramatically...so one book will be cool and one
> book warm.
>
> My next attempt will be to go to Duotone and then Convert to CMYK. Anyone
> have any experience sending a Duotone to Blurb?
>
> I know, I know...Blurb may never be anything as nice as a Quadtone press.
> But I know they do have a great press capable of decent output. I am looking
> to get the optimal B&W workflow for Blurb.
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Blurb and B&W

2010-12-07 by Paul Grant

I believe Blurb uses two different HP Indigo Presses.   One on the West Coast and one somewhere in the East.    Blurb now offers a colormanaged workflow which I have not used as yet but will on my next book.

In my past experience I found that toning images helped with the black and white.     Its has been sometime since I have attempted an all b/w book.   The ones I have done recently had bw and color mixed and I guess your eye get fooled into thinking the are all okay.

Paul
On Dec 7, 2010, at 2:12 PM, KentB wrote:

> Hi Folks
> 
> I have had a bit of an issue with Blurb printing, and am wondering if anyone has suitable solutions to my issues. Blurb unfortunately says that B&W is a big problem for them...but I refuse to believe great B&W cannot be accomplished.
> 
> Blurbs recommendation is sending a totally greyscale image to the press. The output is good, but lifeless. Strikes me it should be possible to get great toned images from Blurb.
> 
> I tried using rgb curves then sending it to the press to get a subtle tone. OK, blurb runs seem to vary dramatically...so one book will be cool and one book warm.
> 
> My next attempt will be to go to Duotone and then Convert to CMYK. Anyone have any experience sending a Duotone to Blurb?
> 
> I know, I know...Blurb may never be anything as nice as a Quadtone press. But I know they do have a great press capable of decent output. I am looking to get the optimal B&W workflow for Blurb.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Phil
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Blurb and B&W

2010-12-07 by Mike Kirwan

I just received my 3rd book back from Blurb. This last book contained a mix
of color, sepia toned (sRGB) as well as black & white images (again sRGB).
The quality of the print of all image types was great; and match quite
closely to the images I created in CS5. The color image on my cover had the
flesh tones a little too red but good enough for my first pass.
 
I chatted with their Tech Support people last week and their advice was to
ensure the B&W images had sufficient contrast, so taking their advice I gave
a boost to the contrast by creating a contrast curve. The book contained B&W
images converted using Silver EFX Pro and tweaked in CS5 and converted to
sRGB color space. Others were scans of 6x6cm negatives, scanned as RGB into
CS5, converted to sRGB; they all looked good.
 
My book was made up in Oregon and the turnaround time was very quick,
uploaded the book last Friday and was delivered to California yesterday. Not
sure where your book was made but maybe it is a set up issue at your
location?
 
Now in mid production of my 4th book, as you can gather I am rather pleased
with the finished product.
 
Mike
 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KentB
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 2:13 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Blurb and B&W


  

Hi Folks

I have had a bit of an issue with Blurb printing, and am wondering if anyone
has suitable solutions to my issues. Blurb unfortunately says that B&W is a
big problem for them...but I refuse to believe great B&W cannot be
accomplished.

Blurbs recommendation is sending a totally greyscale image to the press. The
output is good, but lifeless. Strikes me it should be possible to get great
toned images from Blurb.

I tried using rgb curves then sending it to the press to get a subtle tone.
OK, blurb runs seem to vary dramatically...so one book will be cool and one
book warm.

My next attempt will be to go to Duotone and then Convert to CMYK. Anyone
have any experience sending a Duotone to Blurb?

I know, I know...Blurb may never be anything as nice as a Quadtone press.
But I know they do have a great press capable of decent output. I am looking
to get the optimal B&W workflow for Blurb.

Thanks

Phil






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Blurb and B&W

2010-12-07 by Mark Savoia

I have done many with them, all sent as grayscale, embedded gamma 2.2, they have all looked great. Are you ordering with the premium paper? I have re-ordered one about every few months and it looks the same each time. Good neutral grays, good contrast. Order one for yourself and see (yes that is a trick to sell one of my wife's books)

http://tinyurl.com/23cnc8f

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Blurb and B&W

2010-12-08 by faeofavalon

It's true that every time you order from Blurb, it goes to a different
printer/location so it is difficult  to get consistent results. Realize,
too, that the cost to produce these books are relatively cheap compared
to a better and more professional printing house so they may not put as
much effort into this as you want them to. They are catering mainly to
the mass consumer who wants good quality without spending hundreds of
dollars on one book.
Having said that, I have been pleased with the result of my warm-toned
book but my purpose in making it is to have a small portfolio to sell
people that can not afford the price of one print, and to also use as
promo materials.
Shameless plug for my book while I am here:
http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/1547812
<http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/1547812>
- AnnMariehttp://www.annmarietornabene.net
<http://www.annmarietornabene.net>


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> I have done many with them, all sent as grayscale, embedded gamma 2.2,
they have all looked great. Are you ordering with the premium paper? I
have re-ordered one about every few months and it looks the same each
time. Good neutral grays, good contrast. Order one for yourself and see
(yes that is a trick to sell one of my wife's books)
>
> http://tinyurl.com/23cnc8f
>
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Blurb and B&W

2010-12-09 by john

Very cool Mark. I'll check out the book. 

john



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I have done many with them, all sent as grayscale, embedded gamma 2.2, they have all looked great. Are you ordering with the premium paper? I have re-ordered one about every few months and it looks the same each time. Good neutral grays, good contrast. Order one for yourself and see (yes that is a trick to sell one of my wife's books)
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/23cnc8f
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Tom Fielder

To the Blurb guys:  When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
lighten the images before sending to Blurb?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mark Savoia

No.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 9, 2010, at 9:57 PM, Tom Fielder wrote:

> To the Blurb guys:  When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
> lighten the images before sending to Blurb?
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mike Kirwan

No; used the same image output (brightness, contrast and sharpening) as I do for my Epson 7880 or 3800.
 
Mike

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m] On Behalf Of Tom Fielder
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 6:57 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


  

To the Blurb guys: When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
lighten the images before sending to Blurb?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by mrjimbo

Hey Mark,
This type of publishing I have not been familiar with.. So something new for 
this guy but Blurb seems very interesting.... Mentioned it to a friend and 
they mentioned Lulu.. which sounds pretty similar....RU familiar with them 
also if so how do they compare quality wise..

jimbo
----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Mark Savoia" <mark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


> No.
>
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 9:57 PM, Tom Fielder wrote:
>
>> To the Blurb guys:  When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
>> lighten the images before sending to Blurb?
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources 
>> as they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
>> same page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
>> keep them short.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
>> membership without notice.
>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
>> the membership.
>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner 
>> and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files 
>> section:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND 
>> \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO 
>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>> \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE 
>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner 
> and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files 
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND 
> \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO 
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
> \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE 
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by David Aschkenas

I haven't used Blurb, but I did try Lulu and thought they did a  
really bad job, I would never use them again.
I have had good results from My Publisher both for neutral black and  
white and for color.  Great customer service too, real live people  
you can speak with and ask questions to.
David
-- 
David Aschkenas
915 N. Euclid Ave.
Pittsburgh, PA 15206
412-363-3458
www.daschkenasphoto.com

On Dec 10, 2010, at 9:28 AM, mrjimbo wrote:

> Hey Mark,
> This type of publishing I have not been familiar with.. So  
> something new for
> this guy but Blurb seems very interesting.... Mentioned it to a  
> friend and
> they mentioned Lulu.. which sounds pretty similar....RU familiar  
> with them
> also if so how do they compare quality wise..
>
> jimbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Savoia" <mark@stillrivereditions.com>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W
>
>
>> No.
>>
>> Mark
>> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 9:57 PM, Tom Fielder wrote:
>>
>>> To the Blurb guys:  When you ordered your B & W books, did you  
>>> have to
>>> lighten the images before sending to Blurb?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>>> resources
>>> as they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
>>> wish to
>>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
>>> this
>>> same page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier  
>>> messages to
>>> keep them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
>>> flames.
>>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>>> membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of  
>>> digital B&W
>>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
>>> removed from
>>> the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
>>> group Owner
>>> and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files
>>> section:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW,  
>>> THE PRINT
>>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
>>> �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
>>> LIABLE TO
>>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>>> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP  
>>> HAVE BEEN
>>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)  
>>> THE USE
>>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR  
>>> DATA; (iii)
>>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>>> PRINT
>>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW,  
>>> THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>> resources as
>> they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
>> wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
>> this same
>> page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
>> to keep
>> them short.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
>> flames.
>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>> membership without notice.
>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of  
>> digital B&W
>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
>> removed from
>> the membership.
>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
>> Owner
>> and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files
>> section:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>> PRINT
>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
>> �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
>> LIABLE TO
>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE  
>> BEEN
>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)  
>> THE USE
>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR  
>> DATA; (iii)
>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mark Savoia

I tried a few with Lulu, not happy at all, blacks were washed out.
Plug (even though I do not like the print quality) http://tinyurl.com/22uvj9e

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Dec 10, 2010, at 9:28 AM, mrjimbo wrote:

> Hey Mark,
> This type of publishing I have not been familiar with.. So something new for 
> this guy but Blurb seems very interesting.... Mentioned it to a friend and 
> they mentioned Lulu.. which sounds pretty similar....RU familiar with them 
> also if so how do they compare quality wise..
> 
> jimbo



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mark Savoia

Oddly enough, I have heard people having good results with Costco. I have never seen one.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 10, 2010, at 9:35 AM, David Aschkenas wrote:

> I haven't used Blurb, but I did try Lulu and thought they did a  
> really bad job, I would never use them again.
> I have had good results from My Publisher both for neutral black and  
> white and for color.  Great customer service too, real live people  
> you can speak with and ask questions to.
> David
> -- 
> David Aschkenas
> 915 N. Euclid Ave.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15206
> 412-363-3458
> www.daschkenasphoto.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by mrjimbo

Jeeeze Costco does book publishing also? WOW... 

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Savoia 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 7:40 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    
  Oddly enough, I have heard people having good results with Costco. I have never seen one.

  Mark
  http://www.stillrivereditions.com

  On Dec 10, 2010, at 9:35 AM, David Aschkenas wrote:

  > I haven't used Blurb, but I did try Lulu and thought they did a 
  > really bad job, I would never use them again.
  > I have had good results from My Publisher both for neutral black and 
  > white and for color. Great customer service too, real live people 
  > you can speak with and ask questions to.
  > David
  > -- 
  > David Aschkenas
  > 915 N. Euclid Ave.
  > Pittsburgh, PA 15206
  > 412-363-3458
  > www.daschkenasphoto.com



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by slcphoto73

Or, more generally, how did you soft proof?

  - susan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fielder" <tfielder@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> To the Blurb guys:  When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
> lighten the images before sending to Blurb?
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mark Savoia

Just get one printed.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:15 PM, slcphoto73 wrote:

> Or, more generally, how did you soft proof?
> 
>  - susan
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fielder" <tfielder@...> wrote:
>> 
>> To the Blurb guys:  When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
>> lighten the images before sending to Blurb?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mike Kirwan

You can print your book, minus the cover, that does not print, to any
printer you have. I printed a soft proof to me Epson 1900, you can also
print to PDF, on a Mac a PDF writer is included, on a PC you need Acrobat
Writer or one of the freebie variants like CutePDF. Else for more accurate
assessment have a small book made with the paper you want to use as final
output. The prices for a small book are very reasonable
 
Mike

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
slcphoto73
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:15 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


  

Or, more generally, how did you soft proof?

- susan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by mrjimbo

Hi Mark or?
I am extremly interested in this Process thru Blurb ... A question for you I'm struggling with a couple of things in their pricing guide lines.. 

First I take it that any high end B&W print book would be done using the 4 color book model and process.. 

Ok using an example a 4 color 7x7 book that has from 20 to 40 pages softcover it's priced at 12.95 each.. I'm choking on that  as I would assume it's 12.95 for 20 pages.. not 40..I can't seem to locate an added cost per page.. their must be an added per page cost isn't there?  I would think.. I would think their is.. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing too  many with only 20 pages..

Do you send PDF's or use their software..

I have a couple of items in process.. One is pretty close...all done in Indesign using 6 various page templates I have made for content less index cover and 4 other unique pages...  As long as it's to their standards it should be ok ...correct?

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Savoia 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    
  Just get one printed.

  Mark
  http://www.stillrivereditions.com

  On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:15 PM, slcphoto73 wrote:

  > Or, more generally, how did you soft proof?
  > 
  > - susan
  > 
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fielder" <tfielder@...> wrote:
  >> 
  >> To the Blurb guys: When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
  >> lighten the images before sending to Blurb?
  >> 
  >> 
  >> 
  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mike Kirwan

Jumping in on pricing
 
$12.95 will get you 20 to 40 pages same price, so a 30 page book, still $12.95 go to 41 pages and you get to the next level.
 
You can use Indesign and export as PDF to Blurb, or use their free Booksmart program. I use Booksmart, rudimentary text editing and formatting, but it works for me
 
Mike

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mrjimbo
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:44 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


  

Hi Mark or?
I am extremly interested in this Process thru Blurb ... A question for you I'm struggling with a couple of things in their pricing guide lines.. 

First I take it that any high end B&W print book would be done using the 4 color book model and process.. 

Ok using an example a 4 color 7x7 book that has from 20 to 40 pages softcover it's priced at 12.95 each.. I'm choking on that as I would assume it's 12.95 for 20 pages.. not 40..I can't seem to locate an added cost per page.. their must be an added per page cost isn't there? I would think.. I would think their is.. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing too many with only 20 pages..

Do you send PDF's or use their software..

I have a couple of items in process.. One is pretty close...all done in Indesign using 6 various page templates I have made for content less index cover and 4 other unique pages... As long as it's to their standards it should be ok ...correct?

jimbo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mark Savoia 
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>  
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

Just get one printed.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:15 PM, slcphoto73 wrote:

> Or, more generally, how did you soft proof?
> 
> - susan
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tom Fielder" <tfielder@...> wrote:
>> 
>> To the Blurb guys: When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
>> lighten the images before sending to Blurb?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by goldhorde

Has anyone seen OR had a book product printed with the Espresso Book Machine? LINK: www.ondemandbooks.com  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Kirwan" <mkirwan@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Jumping in on pricing
>  
> $12.95 will get you 20 to 40 pages same price, so a 30 page book, still $12.95 go to 41 pages and you get to the next level.
>  
> You can use Indesign and export as PDF to Blurb, or use their free Booksmart program. I use Booksmart, rudimentary text editing and formatting, but it works for me
>  
> Mike
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mrjimbo
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:44 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W
> 
> 
>   
> 
> Hi Mark or?
> I am extremly interested in this Process thru Blurb ... A question for you I'm struggling with a couple of things in their pricing guide lines.. 
> 
> First I take it that any high end B&W print book would be done using the 4 color book model and process.. 
> 
> Ok using an example a 4 color 7x7 book that has from 20 to 40 pages softcover it's priced at 12.95 each.. I'm choking on that as I would assume it's 12.95 for 20 pages.. not 40..I can't seem to locate an added cost per page.. their must be an added per page cost isn't there? I would think.. I would think their is.. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing too many with only 20 pages..
> 
> Do you send PDF's or use their software..
> 
> I have a couple of items in process.. One is pretty close...all done in Indesign using 6 various page templates I have made for content less index cover and 4 other unique pages... As long as it's to their standards it should be ok ...correct?
> 
> jimbo
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Mark Savoia 
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>  
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W
> 
> Just get one printed.
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:15 PM, slcphoto73 wrote:
> 
> > Or, more generally, how did you soft proof?
> > 
> > - susan
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tom Fielder" <tfielder@> wrote:
> >> 
> >> To the Blurb guys: When you ordered your B & W books, did you have to
> >> lighten the images before sending to Blurb?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Brad Smith

Jimbo........See my answers inserted below.

> First I take it that any high end B&W print book would be done using the 4 color book model and process. 
> 
Correct

> Ok using an example a 4 color 7x7 book that has from 20 to 40 pages softcover it's priced at 12.95 each.. I'm choking on that as I would assume it's 12.95 for 20 pages.. not 40..I can't seem to locate an added cost per page.. their must be an added per page cost isn't there? I would think.. I would think their is.. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing too many with only 20 pages..
> 
Pages are counted just like in any book.  pg 1 on front of a sheet, pg 2 on the back of that sheet.   Therefore, a 40 PAGE book would have 20 SHEETS.  Blurb  prices by tiers regarding the number of pages as you noted.   So a 21 page and 40 page book cost the same amount.


> Do you send PDF's or use their software..
> 

I use their software because I find it much easier and more flexible because of the ability to modify each of their canned page layouts.   I love this because I can size each image window to fit the way I've cropped my image.  It is a personal thing, but I  really don't like having to crop all of my image to fit within a pre-determined format...whether it is their format or some "standard" that I've come up with.

  
> all done in Indesign using 6 various page templates I have made for content less index cover and 4 other unique pages... As long as it's to their standards it should be ok ...correct?
> 

Lots of posts from people who have used Indesign and/or other pdf creating formats.   They seem to be OK if you follow their guidelines.   

However, if what you want is to be convinced that they produce books which adequately match your visual criteria for image and paper, simply order a cheap book using their software and it's "flow" capability to load your images and see for yourself.  You mentioned B&W.   If it turns out that the images are printed too dark or low contrast, then do another test book with a brightness or curves adjustment applied to the images and see how that comes out.  I haven't done any B&W books, but after doing six color books with them, I'm adding a little contrast and saturation to the images I send them for printing.   (I work on a calibrated NEC monitor).

Brad 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mark Savoia

I use their software but design all the pages in Photoshop and save each as a single file, then just import the whole page (file) for each page of the book, allows for all kinds of customization, text or photo drop shadows, weird photo borders, page numbering, rotated off 90 photos, etc. You can do anything!

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:43 PM, mrjimbo wrote:

> Do you send PDF's or use their software..

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by mrjimbo

Brad,
Thanks for the info.... I got it. now.. I'll admit I was struggling with different amounts of pages for the same $..  I just down loaded their software (Mac & PC) and will check it out over the weekend...I have been using Quark and Indesign for ever so it'll need to be pretty slick for me to step off a cliff with it.. but I'm open minded about it. Does this stuff do Dynamic publishing (Dynamic pages)  using XML, style sheets etc or are the templates fixed...? 
I'm kinda pretty excited about the idea of ordering 1 damn book....OMG... or more likely 10/20 of them.. Still lots to learn.. Kinda funny I feel like I just walked out of the forest.. Just didn't know this was out there.  duh..

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brad Smith 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    
  Jimbo........See my answers inserted below.

  > First I take it that any high end B&W print book would be done using the 4 color book model and process. 
  > 
  Correct

  > Ok using an example a 4 color 7x7 book that has from 20 to 40 pages softcover it's priced at 12.95 each.. I'm choking on that as I would assume it's 12.95 for 20 pages.. not 40..I can't seem to locate an added cost per page.. their must be an added per page cost isn't there? I would think.. I would think their is.. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing too many with only 20 pages..
  > 
  Pages are counted just like in any book. pg 1 on front of a sheet, pg 2 on the back of that sheet. Therefore, a 40 PAGE book would have 20 SHEETS. Blurb prices by tiers regarding the number of pages as you noted. So a 21 page and 40 page book cost the same amount.

  > Do you send PDF's or use their software..
  > 

  I use their software because I find it much easier and more flexible because of the ability to modify each of their canned page layouts. I love this because I can size each image window to fit the way I've cropped my image. It is a personal thing, but I really don't like having to crop all of my image to fit within a pre-determined format...whether it is their format or some "standard" that I've come up with.

  > all done in Indesign using 6 various page templates I have made for content less index cover and 4 other unique pages... As long as it's to their standards it should be ok ...correct?
  > 

  Lots of posts from people who have used Indesign and/or other pdf creating formats. They seem to be OK if you follow their guidelines. 

  However, if what you want is to be convinced that they produce books which adequately match your visual criteria for image and paper, simply order a cheap book using their software and it's "flow" capability to load your images and see for yourself. You mentioned B&W. If it turns out that the images are printed too dark or low contrast, then do another test book with a brightness or curves adjustment applied to the images and see how that comes out. I haven't done any B&W books, but after doing six color books with them, I'm adding a little contrast and saturation to the images I send them for printing. (I work on a calibrated NEC monitor).

  Brad 

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by Mark Savoia

I have clients that make very small ones (3.5" x 2.6" ones from Apple) to use as calling cards for potential gallery representation or at openings to be sold as small editions of signed "opening mini-ports". They cost $4 to make one.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 10, 2010, at 4:06 PM, mrjimbo wrote:

> Brad,
> Thanks for the info.... I got it. now.. I'll admit I was struggling with different amounts of pages for the same $..  I just down loaded their software (Mac & PC) and will check it out over the weekend...I have been using Quark and Indesign for ever so it'll need to be pretty slick for me to step off a cliff with it.. but I'm open minded about it. Does this stuff do Dynamic publishing (Dynamic pages)  using XML, style sheets etc or are the templates fixed...? 
> I'm kinda pretty excited about the idea of ordering 1 damn book....OMG... or more likely 10/20 of them.. Still lots to learn.. Kinda funny I feel like I just walked out of the forest.. Just didn't know this was out there.  duh..
> 
> jimbo

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by mrjimbo

I will check out their software this weekend.. Kinda excited to do so.. I have used other publishing main stay software for years ...and I do mean years... LOL.. I'm really glad this was brought up on the group.. (for all the wrong reasons of course)..
In truth books are going away and will continue to do so .. but many books are still purposeful .. or a hands on way of sharing..
Mark you asked if any one has stepped up to the better paper  .. I think..  can anyone speak to that? I guess I'm trying to gain an understanding of how "good" can you go.. I figure what I nee dto do is just buy a couple of books that exist and then do one...yeh!!!

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Savoia 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    
  I use their software but design all the pages in Photoshop and save each as a single file, then just import the whole page (file) for each page of the book, allows for all kinds of customization, text or photo drop shadows, weird photo borders, page numbering, rotated off 90 photos, etc. You can do anything!

  Mark
  http://www.stillrivereditions.com

  On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:43 PM, mrjimbo wrote:

  > Do you send PDF's or use their software..



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-10 by slcphoto73

I think the better paper is a necessity. I took a blurb class with Susan Thelwell, and she said that the standard paper will show bleed through.

I just got back my very first book, some bright color abstracts on upgraded luster paper (they call it gloss, but it is a luster). I'm very happy with the color fidelity. I soft proofed in Photoshop (convert to sRGB, view using the blurb .icc profile they provide, then use hue/saturation and curves to make the image look as good as I could) - note my intense cyans could not be printed, but by soft proofing I was able to work around it. The cover of my softcover book was way off from the soft proof, but the images inside were spot on, or at least as close as any monitor can show a print.

In BW, though, I don't quite know how to proceed. Maybe I should order a book (the first one is only a draft anyway) with a BW target included and make a profile? Or convert to sRGB and use their profile? Or just tone the image so it is a color image in fact if not in concept?

Susan Thelwell said that you shouldn't try to use a gray background on your pages because the tone will vary from page to page. That doesn't sound good for BW images. She also said that for really gorgeous, neutral BW one should try MPIX, and showed us a book made using them, and yes it was gorgeous.

  - susan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I will check out their software this weekend.. Kinda excited to do so.. I have used other publishing main stay software for years ...and I do mean years... LOL.. I'm really glad this was brought up on the group.. (for all the wrong reasons of course)..
> In truth books are going away and will continue to do so .. but many books are still purposeful .. or a hands on way of sharing..
> Mark you asked if any one has stepped up to the better paper  .. I think..  can anyone speak to that? I guess I'm trying to gain an understanding of how "good" can you go.. I figure what I nee dto do is just buy a couple of books that exist and then do one...yeh!!!
> 
> jimbo
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Mark Savoia 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:22 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W
> 
> 
>     
>   I use their software but design all the pages in Photoshop and save each as a single file, then just import the whole page (file) for each page of the book, allows for all kinds of customization, text or photo drop shadows, weird photo borders, page numbering, rotated off 90 photos, etc. You can do anything!
> 
>   Mark
>   http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
>   On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:43 PM, mrjimbo wrote:
> 
>   > Do you send PDF's or use their software..
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by John Labovitz

In my experience printing a B&W book with Lulu (admittedly different than Blurb, but in the same POD business/technology), it worked far better to tone the B&W images slightly.  I chose a sort of sepia/magenta, which at least was better than the green shade I got on the first proof where I sent straight monochrome images.

The logic behind this, as it was explained to me and seems to be true, is that with the CMYK process, it's very difficult to get a truly neutral gray.  Often, it's slightly off, and then will pick up the shade of whatever that direction is -- cyan, magenta, yellow, or a combination.  It's therefore better to shift the tone of the image at least in the direction you want it to go (eg, sepia), and then if the tones shift slightly, at least they'll be a variant of what you wanted.

For the Lulu detractors, it's worth noting that although my monochrome books* produced through them last year were pretty icky in terms of color shifts, that seems to have improved markedly since.

	*My book is available at: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/convento-art-emerging-from-ruins-(exhibition-catalog)/4576181

--John
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 10 Dec 2010, at 3:27 PM, slcphoto73 wrote:

> I think the better paper is a necessity. I took a blurb class with Susan Thelwell, and she said that the standard paper will show bleed through.
> 
> I just got back my very first book, some bright color abstracts on upgraded luster paper (they call it gloss, but it is a luster). I'm very happy with the color fidelity. I soft proofed in Photoshop (convert to sRGB, view using the blurb .icc profile they provide, then use hue/saturation and curves to make the image look as good as I could) - note my intense cyans could not be printed, but by soft proofing I was able to work around it. The cover of my softcover book was way off from the soft proof, but the images inside were spot on, or at least as close as any monitor can show a print.
> 
> In BW, though, I don't quite know how to proceed. Maybe I should order a book (the first one is only a draft anyway) with a BW target included and make a profile? Or convert to sRGB and use their profile? Or just tone the image so it is a color image in fact if not in concept?
> 
> Susan Thelwell said that you shouldn't try to use a gray background on your pages because the tone will vary from page to page. That doesn't sound good for BW images. She also said that for really gorgeous, neutral BW one should try MPIX, and showed us a book made using them, and yes it was gorgeous.
> 
>  - susan
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
>> 
>> I will check out their software this weekend.. Kinda excited to do so.. I have used other publishing main stay software for years ...and I do mean years... LOL.. I'm really glad this was brought up on the group.. (for all the wrong reasons of course)..
>> In truth books are going away and will continue to do so .. but many books are still purposeful .. or a hands on way of sharing..
>> Mark you asked if any one has stepped up to the better paper  .. I think..  can anyone speak to that? I guess I'm trying to gain an understanding of how "good" can you go.. I figure what I nee dto do is just buy a couple of books that exist and then do one...yeh!!!
>> 
>> jimbo
>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>  From: Mark Savoia 
>>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>>  Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:22 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  I use their software but design all the pages in Photoshop and save each as a single file, then just import the whole page (file) for each page of the book, allows for all kinds of customization, text or photo drop shadows, weird photo borders, page numbering, rotated off 90 photos, etc. You can do anything!
>> 
>>  Mark
>>  http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>> 
>>  On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:43 PM, mrjimbo wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you send PDF's or use their software..
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

[Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by john

Yea, I think it is a great technology. I went to a gallery opening a few months ago that was a collaboration between a painter, an animation artist, and a poet. They did a blurb book that was on scale as an artifact of the exhibition. It looked really great hard bound and fit for any art library and dirt cheap. If you are going to be using text it is especially effective or small runs. They just ordered copies as they were needed. I made a little Apple book of portraits for a client and I expected it to look like garbage, and it didn't. I was quite impressed. It was all color though. The Blurb interface for making changes and such is a lot more sophisticated but to me for the money, hell, either is well worth the hour or two it takes to put together. It is a very useful thing to promote your work with. From my experience with modern postcard I would send them grayscale files for mono.

j

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I have clients that make very small ones (3.5" x 2.6" ones from Apple) to use as calling cards for potential gallery representation or at openings to be sold as small editions of signed "opening mini-ports". They cost $4 to make one.
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> On Dec 10, 2010, at 4:06 PM, mrjimbo wrote:
> 
> > Brad,
> > Thanks for the info.... I got it. now.. I'll admit I was struggling with different amounts of pages for the same $..  I just down loaded their software (Mac & PC) and will check it out over the weekend...I have been using Quark and Indesign for ever so it'll need to be pretty slick for me to step off a cliff with it.. but I'm open minded about it. Does this stuff do Dynamic publishing (Dynamic pages)  using XML, style sheets etc or are the templates fixed...? 
> > I'm kinda pretty excited about the idea of ordering 1 damn book....OMG... or more likely 10/20 of them.. Still lots to learn.. Kinda funny I feel like I just walked out of the forest.. Just didn't know this was out there.  duh..
> > 
> > jimbo
>

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by David Blanchard

If you google around you will find very nice (free) webinars sponsored by XRite 
on profiling, soft proofing and assembly of Blurb books. Give 'em a try.

I tried assembling a Blurb without soft proofing and got just barely acceptable 
results. I'm going to re-edit the images and try again. Oh, I'm mostly a color 
person, but the few BWs I tried worked out fine.

 
David
Broken Toy Art: Showing the Unseen Harmony 
Photographic Art Images
Event Images
Gallery Saratoga

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by Tom Fielder

I have a friend who ordered a "guide" or "test" book for his Blurb book.  He
began by getting his B & W image spot-on, for his taste, when viewed on his
monitor.  He then prepared images with varying degrees of contrast and/or
brightness.  (-20%, -10%, 0, + 10%, +20%, etc.)  In Frank's case, he was
also interested in color so he did a similar exercise for the color.  At $15
for a  small book it was an easy solution for him to make a digital print
version of the old darkroom exposure wheel.  

 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by mrjimbo

I am really enjoying this thread.. thanks to all. 
I was crawling around on the Blurb site and they provide their profile for soft proofing.. Especially in my case ( newbie with them) I'm nervous about what you get back.. but it sounds like it's ok.. Not soft proofing would seem an error and I will surely order only one of coming out of the gate.
Thanks for the tip on the webinars ....I'll dig them up.

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Blanchard 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 8:35 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    
  If you google around you will find very nice (free) webinars sponsored by XRite 
  on profiling, soft proofing and assembly of Blurb books. Give 'em a try.

  I tried assembling a Blurb without soft proofing and got just barely acceptable 
  results. I'm going to re-edit the images and try again. Oh, I'm mostly a color 
  person, but the few BWs I tried worked out fine.

  David
  Broken Toy Art: Showing the Unseen Harmony 
  Photographic Art Images
  Event Images
  Gallery Saratoga

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by Gary Brown

I'm sorry to be such a spoil sport, but the fact is it is almost impossible to get good quality B&W images from Blurb or any other
print on demand book seller. The way they print is just not set up for B&W. If you think that by soft proofing or altering your images in any way
you can approach the quality of the images you see in "Lenswork" for example, you have delusions of grandeur. This group has spent years
of discussion trying to improve the quality of B&W. The printing process used by the on demand printers is not much better than what was available
when we were trying to print B&W images from a printer with a four color cartridge. If you are satisfied with the quality you can get from these printers,
more power to you.

I'm in the middle of making a book in honor of a 90th birthday. The only way to achieve the quality worthy of this project, is to print all of the images myself,
on my choice of paper and have a bookmaker bind them into a book. The bad part is that by the time I am done I will have spent several hundred dollars.
If I could find a printer that would print books up to my standards, that could be purchased one at time, I would gladly use them.


Gary

baffin@...
www.garyallenbrownphoto.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by Mark Savoia

Gary, 
You did say almost impossible? That leaves room for possible;) It can be done and I have done it many times.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 11, 2010, at 12:58 PM, Gary Brown wrote:

> I'm sorry to be such a spoil sport, but the fact is it is almost impossible to get good quality B&W images from Blurb or any other
> print on demand book seller.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by mrjimbo

Gary ,
I don't know that much about Blurb.. but that'll change soon. But because I'm new to service houses like Blurb doesn't mean I have not been exposed or involved in publishing, commercial printing or book making.. 
I have been working with print houses a long time as have many here I'm sure. One of the biggest things I've learned about working with them is to learn their equipment and how to talk to it.. I'm in an odd area..  we seem to have an abundance of graphic designers here.. nice work for home business's I guess.. Over time you get to see all their work.. Aside from their technical skills doing their thing.. what you really see is how it's printed .. a small few always have their stuff look good all the time. That is certainly not an accident.. 
Anyway .. yes I agree with you that if your after true fine art prints then Wal-Mart ain't the place to go.. but I think you said you had several hundred dollars tied up in your widget.. that just doesn't work all the time and that's a fact of life..

Anyway to sum up.. We have what was sort of the mother ship of all the on line printing places right out here in ole Montana ... Andrew's "Printing for Less".. Their a machine, they have rules, they don't like to listen to what you need that's outside the box (although they say they do) .. Do you know that places like this relineurize their printers at a certain value.. just knowing that opens a huge quality door. Anyway what I'm trying to say is these places can do a great job ..you just got to help them do it for you.. The extra effort just could mean the job that was never gonna happen ....did.. and / or you end up doing something for yourself or others that would have just not been possible...

Ok everything above was kind of a rant..  but lets turn it around.. maybe what a better conversation might be is... What can I do or what do I need to learn such that I can get a higher level of quality from these new low cost or low volume on line print houses.. Media as we know it is changing so fast that it's almost scary.. This is not a time to be stuck in our own thinking; harnessing creativity I feel goes well beyond our own walls..  plus it's kinda fun if one can figure out or squeeze in working it in. Admittedly a pain in the ass when doing the ho hum daily stuff that consumes us.. It all lives in the box man..

A last remark.. promise...LOL.. I havin fun with this I guess.. As an individual I'm an artist .. I work hard ...no kidding.. so I have to market and sell my own work.. Then I have another hat ..  that's basically about service to others. Sometimes that one is tough to wear.. Most of the regulars on this group must figure I'm some kinda goon or something.. My standards for my own work and where I set my bar get confused sometimes as I try to give them to others.... That was a tuff learning curve for me as a person. Still at it in truth... It's just listening.  Sometimes people just want to say something.. they need to do that .. it's a good thing.. The crime would be to quite the voice over silly standards or rules..  The person that has something to say and uses Blurb today may move to a totally different place if their "watered" properly.. Along with the service that we do.. isn't that our job? 

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gary Brown 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    
  I'm sorry to be such a spoil sport, but the fact is it is almost impossible to get good quality B&W images from Blurb or any other
  print on demand book seller. The way they print is just not set up for B&W. If you think that by soft proofing or altering your images in any way
  you can approach the quality of the images you see in "Lenswork" for example, you have delusions of grandeur. This group has spent years
  of discussion trying to improve the quality of B&W. The printing process used by the on demand printers is not much better than what was available
  when we were trying to print B&W images from a printer with a four color cartridge. If you are satisfied with the quality you can get from these printers,
  more power to you.

  I'm in the middle of making a book in honor of a 90th birthday. The only way to achieve the quality worthy of this project, is to print all of the images myself,
  on my choice of paper and have a bookmaker bind them into a book. The bad part is that by the time I am done I will have spent several hundred dollars.
  If I could find a printer that would print books up to my standards, that could be purchased one at time, I would gladly use them.

  Gary

  baffin@...
  www.garyallenbrownphoto.com

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-11 by E.Neilsen

Jimbo, It is hard giving people just what they want instead of all the
knowledge we have isn't it?  ; ) 

 

Eric Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

 

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

skype me with ejprinter

www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

Let's Talk Photography

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mrjimbo
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 2:16 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

 

  

Gary ,
I don't know that much about Blurb.. but that'll change soon. But because
I'm new to service houses like Blurb doesn't mean I have not been exposed or
involved in publishing, commercial printing or book making.. 
I have been working with print houses a long time as have many here I'm
sure. One of the biggest things I've learned about working with them is to
learn their equipment and how to talk to it.. I'm in an odd area.. we seem
to have an abundance of graphic designers here.. nice work for home
business's I guess.. Over time you get to see all their work.. Aside from
their technical skills doing their thing.. what you really see is how it's
printed .. a small few always have their stuff look good all the time. That
is certainly not an accident.. 
Anyway .. yes I agree with you that if your after true fine art prints then
Wal-Mart ain't the place to go.. but I think you said you had several
hundred dollars tied up in your widget.. that just doesn't work all the time
and that's a fact of life..

Anyway to sum up.. We have what was sort of the mother ship of all the on
line printing places right out here in ole Montana ... Andrew's "Printing
for Less".. Their a machine, they have rules, they don't like to listen to
what you need that's outside the box (although they say they do) .. Do you
know that places like this relineurize their printers at a certain value..
just knowing that opens a huge quality door. Anyway what I'm trying to say
is these places can do a great job ..you just got to help them do it for
you.. The extra effort just could mean the job that was never gonna happen
....did.. and / or you end up doing something for yourself or others that
would have just not been possible...

Ok everything above was kind of a rant.. but lets turn it around.. maybe
what a better conversation might be is... What can I do or what do I need to
learn such that I can get a higher level of quality from these new low cost
or low volume on line print houses.. Media as we know it is changing so fast
that it's almost scary.. This is not a time to be stuck in our own thinking;
harnessing creativity I feel goes well beyond our own walls.. plus it's
kinda fun if one can figure out or squeeze in working it in. Admittedly a
pain in the ass when doing the ho hum daily stuff that consumes us.. It all
lives in the box man..

A last remark.. promise...LOL.. I havin fun with this I guess.. As an
individual I'm an artist .. I work hard ...no kidding.. so I have to market
and sell my own work.. Then I have another hat .. that's basically about
service to others. Sometimes that one is tough to wear.. Most of the
regulars on this group must figure I'm some kinda goon or something.. My
standards for my own work and where I set my bar get confused sometimes as I
try to give them to others.... That was a tuff learning curve for me as a
person. Still at it in truth... It's just listening. Sometimes people just
want to say something.. they need to do that .. it's a good thing.. The
crime would be to quite the voice over silly standards or rules.. The person
that has something to say and uses Blurb today may move to a totally
different place if their "watered" properly.. Along with the service that we
do.. isn't that our job? 

jimbo








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-12 by mrjimbo

Eric ,
Ha... Yes it is at times.. 

j
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: E.Neilsen 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 2:52 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    
  Jimbo, It is hard giving people just what they want instead of all the
  knowledge we have isn't it? ; ) 

  Eric Neilsen

  Eric Neilsen Photography

  4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

  Dallas, TX 75226

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com

  skype me with ejprinter

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

  Let's Talk Photography

  _____ 

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mrjimbo
  Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 2:16 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

  Gary ,
  I don't know that much about Blurb.. but that'll change soon. But because
  I'm new to service houses like Blurb doesn't mean I have not been exposed or
  involved in publishing, commercial printing or book making.. 
  I have been working with print houses a long time as have many here I'm
  sure. One of the biggest things I've learned about working with them is to
  learn their equipment and how to talk to it.. I'm in an odd area.. we seem
  to have an abundance of graphic designers here.. nice work for home
  business's I guess.. Over time you get to see all their work.. Aside from
  their technical skills doing their thing.. what you really see is how it's
  printed .. a small few always have their stuff look good all the time. That
  is certainly not an accident.. 
  Anyway .. yes I agree with you that if your after true fine art prints then
  Wal-Mart ain't the place to go.. but I think you said you had several
  hundred dollars tied up in your widget.. that just doesn't work all the time
  and that's a fact of life..

  Anyway to sum up.. We have what was sort of the mother ship of all the on
  line printing places right out here in ole Montana ... Andrew's "Printing
  for Less".. Their a machine, they have rules, they don't like to listen to
  what you need that's outside the box (although they say they do) .. Do you
  know that places like this relineurize their printers at a certain value..
  just knowing that opens a huge quality door. Anyway what I'm trying to say
  is these places can do a great job ..you just got to help them do it for
  you.. The extra effort just could mean the job that was never gonna happen
  ....did.. and / or you end up doing something for yourself or others that
  would have just not been possible...

  Ok everything above was kind of a rant.. but lets turn it around.. maybe
  what a better conversation might be is... What can I do or what do I need to
  learn such that I can get a higher level of quality from these new low cost
  or low volume on line print houses.. Media as we know it is changing so fast
  that it's almost scary.. This is not a time to be stuck in our own thinking;
  harnessing creativity I feel goes well beyond our own walls.. plus it's
  kinda fun if one can figure out or squeeze in working it in. Admittedly a
  pain in the ass when doing the ho hum daily stuff that consumes us.. It all
  lives in the box man..

  A last remark.. promise...LOL.. I havin fun with this I guess.. As an
  individual I'm an artist .. I work hard ...no kidding.. so I have to market
  and sell my own work.. Then I have another hat .. that's basically about
  service to others. Sometimes that one is tough to wear.. Most of the
  regulars on this group must figure I'm some kinda goon or something.. My
  standards for my own work and where I set my bar get confused sometimes as I
  try to give them to others.... That was a tuff learning curve for me as a
  person. Still at it in truth... It's just listening. Sometimes people just
  want to say something.. they need to do that .. it's a good thing.. The
  crime would be to quite the voice over silly standards or rules.. The person
  that has something to say and uses Blurb today may move to a totally
  different place if their "watered" properly.. Along with the service that we
  do.. isn't that our job? 

  jimbo

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-12 by Tom Fielder

Gary -  I took a look at your website and I'm blown away by your work!
Well-done!!  I can totally agree with your quest for perfection and fully
support your idea of a custom printed one-of-a-kind book for the 90th
birthday subject.   

 

On the other hand, mass production or even single print-on-demand production
is a totally different animal.  For instance, I have a number of Ansel's
books.  I have also examined (with gloves) photographs personally printed by
the master himself.  Ansel's books, and the images thereto, are nowhere
close to the quality of his prints.  Nevertheless, the books are well-done
and the images convey the emotion and feeling of his work.  

 

So, my point is that we should all charge on and print or publish or work
using whatever means we have available.  At the end of the day, the prints
or books will be our only remaining legacy.

 

This topic, BTW, has been very helpful to me over the past couple of days.
Thanks to everyone for your contributions!

 

 

 

 

 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-13 by arlenelove3@aol.com

I've used UBuildABook for two books. No, the quality is not like a  great 
art book, but neither is the price. I do my own design and layout and  send  
PDF files.They do a good job and are easy to work with. They send  proofs 
and have been very accommodating in trying to get my BW photos as  close as 
possible. Their color is very good. 
                Arlene  

Arlene  Love
arlenelove3@... 
_www.arlenelove.com_ (http://www.arlenelove.com/)   



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-13 by Paul

Gary,

The procedure you are using for that 90th birthday present is what I followed a couple of years ago. I do some work for a local architect, who also serves on our community's library board. The board was holding a fund-raising auction of self-published books, and the proviso was that only one copy of each book would be available. Most people used on-line services and worked in color.

When I do photos for this architect and her National Register applications, I use an Epson 1800 and the 3 MK inkset pioneered here by Paul. She decided on about 18 images from my portfolio and I printed each one on some Premier Art FineArt paper. We are fortunate here in Billings, MT to have an old-time bindery where the owner restores old family Bibles and historic books. The equipment is fascinating, much of it close to one hundred years old. He's a young guy who bought the business from his parents and does beautiful work. He did my book for $90 and the evening of the auction it went for $700! (nothing to me and the architect of course!)

And I appreciate your mention of Lenswork. That's a standard I would love to emulate but I know Brooks Jensen and his crew have taken book printing to an art in itself. When I look at my photo books from the 70's I realize how far the art of printing has come.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Brown" <baffin@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
 
> I'm in the middle of making a book in honor of a 90th birthday. The only way to achieve the quality worthy of this project, is to print all of the images myself,
> on my choice of paper and have a bookmaker bind them into a book. The bad part is that by the time I am done I will have spent several hundred dollars.
> If I could find a printer that would print books up to my standards, that could be purchased one at time, I would gladly use them.
> 
> 
> Gary
> 
> baffin@...
> www.garyallenbrownphoto.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-13 by faeofavalon

Tom -
Well said. In 50 years, only IF Sotheby's and the like are still around,
will anyone even consider comparing original prints to publications. I
have spent $100's on photo and art books over the years and I know they=
images in there will never come close to the originals. In my opinion, a
publication's intention is to show the viewer a reasonably well produced
facsimile, hence why you are not spending $1000's on a book...
:DMy two cents,AnnMariewww.annmarietornabene.net
<http://www.annmarietornabene.net>



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fielder"
<tfielder@...> wrote:>> Gary -  I took a look at your website and I'm
blown away by your work!> Well-done!!  I can totally agree with your
quest for perfection and fully> support your idea of a custom printed
one-of-a-kind book for the 90th> birthday subject.   > >  > > On the
other hand, mass production or even single print-on-demand production>
is a totally different animal.  For instance, I have a number of
Ansel's> books.  I have also examined (with gloves) photographs
personally printed by> the master himself.  Ansel's books, and the
images thereto, are nowhere> close to the quality of his prints. 
Nevertheless, the books are well-done> and the images convey the emotion
and feeling of his work.  > >  > > So, my point is that we should all
charge on and print or publish or work> using whatever means we have
available.  At the end of the day, the prints> or books will be our only
remaining legacy.> >  > > This topic, BTW, has been very helpful to me
over the past couple of days.> Thanks to everyone for your
contributions!> >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > > > [Non-text portions
of this message have been removed]>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-13 by goldhorde

I'm sure the cover was a different stock - thus in need of a different icc profile -? As long as your monitor is profiled and you have the color management set up correctly in the Adobe Suite (Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign/Acrobat) you will be able to move fairly synonomously between them. There are obvious variations when moving between CMYK/RGB sources and destinations but SOFTPROOFING will predict those moves. Most people have their monitors set too blue (6000+ range) and no paper goes over the 5500 range. So set your monitor to 5000-5500 - it will look more washed out to you but that's realistic paper for ya. Obviously if your photos are for digital displays or monitor broadcast than your settings will need to change again. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John Labovitz <johnl@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> In my experience printing a B&W book with Lulu (admittedly different than Blurb, but in the same POD business/technology), it worked far better to tone the B&W images slightly.  I chose a sort of sepia/magenta, which at least was better than the green shade I got on the first proof where I sent straight monochrome images.
> 
> The logic behind this, as it was explained to me and seems to be true, is that with the CMYK process, it's very difficult to get a truly neutral gray.  Often, it's slightly off, and then will pick up the shade of whatever that direction is -- cyan, magenta, yellow, or a combination.  It's therefore better to shift the tone of the image at least in the direction you want it to go (eg, sepia), and then if the tones shift slightly, at least they'll be a variant of what you wanted.
> 
> For the Lulu detractors, it's worth noting that although my monochrome books* produced through them last year were pretty icky in terms of color shifts, that seems to have improved markedly since.
> 
> 	*My book is available at: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/convento-art-emerging-from-ruins-(exhibition-catalog)/4576181
> 
> --John
> 
> 
> On 10 Dec 2010, at 3:27 PM, slcphoto73 wrote:
> 
> > I think the better paper is a necessity. I took a blurb class with Susan Thelwell, and she said that the standard paper will show bleed through.
> > 
> > I just got back my very first book, some bright color abstracts on upgraded luster paper (they call it gloss, but it is a luster). I'm very happy with the color fidelity. I soft proofed in Photoshop (convert to sRGB, view using the blurb .icc profile they provide, then use hue/saturation and curves to make the image look as good as I could) - note my intense cyans could not be printed, but by soft proofing I was able to work around it. The cover of my softcover book was way off from the soft proof, but the images inside were spot on, or at least as close as any monitor can show a print.
> > 
> > In BW, though, I don't quite know how to proceed. Maybe I should order a book (the first one is only a draft anyway) with a BW target included and make a profile? Or convert to sRGB and use their profile? Or just tone the image so it is a color image in fact if not in concept?
> > 
> > Susan Thelwell said that you shouldn't try to use a gray background on your pages because the tone will vary from page to page. That doesn't sound good for BW images. She also said that for really gorgeous, neutral BW one should try MPIX, and showed us a book made using them, and yes it was gorgeous.
> > 
> >  - susan
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
> >> 
> >> I will check out their software this weekend.. Kinda excited to do so.. I have used other publishing main stay software for years ...and I do mean years... LOL.. I'm really glad this was brought up on the group.. (for all the wrong reasons of course)..
> >> In truth books are going away and will continue to do so .. but many books are still purposeful .. or a hands on way of sharing..
> >> Mark you asked if any one has stepped up to the better paper  .. I think..  can anyone speak to that? I guess I'm trying to gain an understanding of how "good" can you go.. I figure what I nee dto do is just buy a couple of books that exist and then do one...yeh!!!
> >> 
> >> jimbo
> >>  ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>  From: Mark Savoia 
> >>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> >>  Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:22 PM
> >>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>  I use their software but design all the pages in Photoshop and save each as a single file, then just import the whole page (file) for each page of the book, allows for all kinds of customization, text or photo drop shadows, weird photo borders, page numbering, rotated off 90 photos, etc. You can do anything!
> >> 
> >>  Mark
> >>  http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> >> 
> >>  On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:43 PM, mrjimbo wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Do you send PDF's or use their software..
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
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> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
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> > 
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-13 by mrjimbo

Not sure but maybe were missing something here.. Gary's position was actually just fine.... no perfect.... for him.. It's clear that he is an artist and thus is trying to control the viewing vehicle for his work .. That is his job... and I think he's doing a great job at that.. What I think might be going on is that for Gary the book is a continuation of his personal expression of his Art form.. We need to respect that ....I know I certainly do.. So in truth Gary is at a different place  or level then I am.. And in truth neither places are wrong.. For me the books that I visualize coming from a place like Blurb represent something different then Gary's needs.. My purpose is different. My intent is different.. So for me I'm ok with what is in fact a lesser item.. 
The same argument could be going on between Originals , Giclee's and the Litho.. I know several artists that do no repro's .. only originals..  
As far as how long all this stuff will really last.. I doubt anyone on any of these groups can really answer that today.. Their are just to many variable involved. I mean you can put it in dark storage or have it displayed.. The variables are limitless. 
So doing a book Gary's way or as Paul has mentioned is really great.. and they certainly have their place and purpose.. Paul's effort raised 700 bucks!!!!  I also feel that, assuming a product can be gotten from Blurb that meets the artists vision for what their after. Well that's ok too. Probably won't raise that 700 bucks however.. maybe not the right widget for the job..
Again I'll say this has really been a great series of posts..

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: faeofavalon 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:15 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    
  Tom -
  Well said. In 50 years, only IF Sotheby's and the like are still around,
  will anyone even consider comparing original prints to publications. I
  have spent $100's on photo and art books over the years and I know they=
  images in there will never come close to the originals. In my opinion, a
  publication's intention is to show the viewer a reasonably well produced
  facsimile, hence why you are not spending $1000's on a book...
  :DMy two cents,AnnMariewww.annmarietornabene.net
  <http://www.annmarietornabene.net>

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fielder"
  <tfielder@...> wrote:>> Gary - I took a look at your website and I'm
  blown away by your work!> Well-done!! I can totally agree with your
  quest for perfection and fully> support your idea of a custom printed
  one-of-a-kind book for the 90th> birthday subject. > > > > On the
  other hand, mass production or even single print-on-demand production>
  is a totally different animal. For instance, I have a number of
  Ansel's> books. I have also examined (with gloves) photographs
  personally printed by> the master himself. Ansel's books, and the
  images thereto, are nowhere> close to the quality of his prints. 
  Nevertheless, the books are well-done> and the images convey the emotion
  and feeling of his work. > > > > So, my point is that we should all
  charge on and print or publish or work> using whatever means we have
  available. At the end of the day, the prints> or books will be our only
  remaining legacy.> > > > This topic, BTW, has been very helpful to me
  over the past couple of days.> Thanks to everyone for your
  contributions!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions
  of this message have been removed]>

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-13 by goldhorde

JIMBO/All- 
I too have very much enjoyed this B&W bunny trail into self-publishing. I have a PROSE & PHOTO book parked "way back" in Quark 4 and I had no idea the source outlets had grown since I last checked into it five years ago. I have been in the reprographics color proofing trade for 38 years (primarily agency packaging) - and we still do much of our work "the old way" and the more comfortable realm of CMYK/VECTOR so moving into the digital RGB/RASTER has been quite the experience. We were initially outfitted with EPSONs for our B&W/COLOR giclees but have since shifted over to the HP-Z3200 and it is really quite an advance. It won't mean much to this particular group but we have really been quite shocked at how we have been able to profile the Pantone colors accurately with very few misses. In the past - we were lucky if we could hit 60% matches on Pantones - now we are in the 90% range. I will be DEFINITELY researching all the self-publishing links you have listed - if there are more - please post up a link to me.

Dean Daniels
The Color Guys, Inc.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Not sure but maybe were missing something here.. Gary's position was actually just fine.... no perfect.... for him.. It's clear that he is an artist and thus is trying to control the viewing vehicle for his work .. That is his job... and I think he's doing a great job at that.. What I think might be going on is that for Gary the book is a continuation of his personal expression of his Art form.. We need to respect that ....I know I certainly do.. So in truth Gary is at a different place  or level then I am.. And in truth neither places are wrong.. For me the books that I visualize coming from a place like Blurb represent something different then Gary's needs.. My purpose is different. My intent is different.. So for me I'm ok with what is in fact a lesser item.. 
> The same argument could be going on between Originals , Giclee's and the Litho.. I know several artists that do no repro's .. only originals..  
> As far as how long all this stuff will really last.. I doubt anyone on any of these groups can really answer that today.. Their are just to many variable involved. I mean you can put it in dark storage or have it displayed.. The variables are limitless. 
> So doing a book Gary's way or as Paul has mentioned is really great.. and they certainly have their place and purpose.. Paul's effort raised 700 bucks!!!!  I also feel that, assuming a product can be gotten from Blurb that meets the artists vision for what their after. Well that's ok too. Probably won't raise that 700 bucks however.. maybe not the right widget for the job..
> Again I'll say this has really been a great series of posts..
> 
> jimbo
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: faeofavalon 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:15 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W
> 
> 
>     
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-13 by Paul

jimbo et al,

I should add that I don't claim my book was worth that much! The buyer, and the person who came in second, were bidding for a good cause, to raise money for the library. I'd suspect too, he got some tax write-off. The winner got not just a book of photos, but a book artfully bound by a local guy who's keeping the craft of bookbinding alive - and - was supporting a local public good. I doubt very much anyone would pay that much without these other factors!

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> So doing a book Gary's way or as Paul has mentioned is really great.. and they certainly have their place and purpose.. Paul's effort raised 700 bucks!!!!  I also feel that, assuming a product can be gotten from Blurb that meets the artists vision for what their after. Well that's ok too. Probably won't raise that 700 bucks however.. maybe not the right widget for the job..
> Again I'll say this has really been a great series of posts..
> 
> jimbo

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-13 by mrjimbo

Actually Paul
They do.. maybe not to often but they do. So don't slight yourself.. Your in Billings so you may know who I have for a neighbor John Banovich.. I deeply respect him both as an artist and as a business person.. beyond that I like him as he helps us local artists occasionally make our boxes bigger.. John did a book that came out a year ago.. "Beast"  Their was three different editions of it..  The collectors edition is on a par with the high end of this post.. but a tad larger.. His is an edition of 125 books.. with 264 large format pages 17 x 13.5.... so.. It was puffy leather bound in Italy I think and the books are in a wonderful hardwood case.. with a sliding top.. One can be the proud owner of one for 3200.00 / They did a lesser edition called a signature edition... 14 x 11... 500 of them that edition has already sold out.. but these were offset.. Then of course the book store "Gallery Edition" .. 
So maybe anything is possible all we have to do is dream and a hell of  a lot of hard work..

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 1:15 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


    


  jimbo et al,

  I should add that I don't claim my book was worth that much! The buyer, and the person who came in second, were bidding for a good cause, to raise money for the library. I'd suspect too, he got some tax write-off. The winner got not just a book of photos, but a book artfully bound by a local guy who's keeping the craft of bookbinding alive - and - was supporting a local public good. I doubt very much anyone would pay that much without these other factors!

  Paul

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:

  > So doing a book Gary's way or as Paul has mentioned is really great.. and they certainly have their place and purpose.. Paul's effort raised 700 bucks!!!! I also feel that, assuming a product can be gotten from Blurb that meets the artists vision for what their after. Well that's ok too. Probably won't raise that 700 bucks however.. maybe not the right widget for the job..
  > Again I'll say this has really been a great series of posts..
  > 
  > jimbo



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-23 by Deanna Dikeman

I found that I got a better b&w book from Blurb when I sent them PNG files rather than the JPGs I started with. They suggested the change when I contacted them because I was getting a color cast on my b&w images.

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-23 by goldhorde

That doesn't make any sense - PNG format makes a difference more so in VECTOR art rather than in RASTER (bitmap/pixel) art when compared to JPEG. Something is going on at BLURBs processing end or with their workflow parameter preferences. Does BLURB accept TIF format with LZW compression?

-Dean Daniels
dean@... 
(GoldHorde) 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Deanna Dikeman <ddikeman@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I found that I got a better b&w book from Blurb when I sent them PNG files rather than the JPGs I started with. They suggested the change when I contacted them because I was getting a color cast on my b&w images.
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-23 by Mike Kirwan

No TIFF support at all, for images using Booksmart all you have is jpeg or
png. You can go the PDF which may give the benefits of using a TIFF format.
 
I have now published three books using Booksmart, two were full color, the
other was a mix of color, neutral black & white and some toned black & white
images. Very pleased with the results. I first made a small book, cost
around $12.00 with free shipping. Used that as a comparison to soft proofing
using the Blurb profile. They were really close.
 
I am only familiar with soft proofing in Photoshop (CS3 & CS5) and there
profile seemed pretty accurate to my eyes and what I got back in printed
form. This all assumes you have a calibrated monitor!
 
By the way black & white images are not in grey scale they have an sRGB
profile so soft proofing is a must. I have great success converting color
images to B&W using  Silver Efx Pro. My scanned black & white negatives are
scanned in RGB and run through Efx Pro. Final output to sRGB then soft
proofed, then added to the book and off we go.
 
Mike

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of goldhorde
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Blurb and B&W


  

That doesn't make any sense - PNG format makes a difference more so in
VECTOR art rather than in RASTER (bitmap/pixel) art when compared to JPEG.
Something is going on at BLURBs processing end or with their workflow
parameter preferences. Does BLURB accept TIF format with LZW compression?

-Dean Daniels
dean@... <mailto:dean%40colorguys.com>  
(GoldHorde) 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Deanna Dikeman
<ddikeman@...> wrote:




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Blurb and B&W

2010-12-24 by Vinny

Blurb told me to use .png for my B&W. The book came out just fine.

Vinny
www.wulfsden.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "goldhorde" <dean@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> That doesn't make any sense - PNG format makes a difference more so in VECTOR art rather than in RASTER (bitmap/pixel) art when compared to JPEG. Something is going on at BLURBs processing end or with their workflow parameter preferences. Does BLURB accept TIF format with LZW compression?
> 
> -Dean Daniels
> dean@... 
> (GoldHorde) 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Deanna Dikeman <ddikeman@> wrote:
> >
> > I found that I got a better b&w book from Blurb when I sent them PNG files rather than the JPGs I started with. They suggested the change when I contacted them because I was getting a color cast on my b&w images.
> >
>

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