Digital BW, The Print

Hello to everyone!

I have searched the posts for about two hours, but now my head ist in total confusion.

My question:

what are the specific/explicit dilutions for a carbon-6 mixing for an eight-color printer like the R2880? I would appreciate a detailed listing for each color related to volume.

Thank you all so far!


Gerd

Gerd,

So Paul Roark has this info in one of his docs.
Check out carbon 6 for 1400 & other docs.

If you are making your own profile doesn't matter which dilution goes in
which channel.

Cheers,

Mike

On 10 March 2011 11:25, Gerd <lichtwert@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hello to everyone!
>
> I have searched the posts for about two hours, but now my head ist in total
> confusion.
>
> My question:
>
> what are the specific/explicit dilutions for a carbon-6 mixing for an
> eight-color printer like the R2880? I would appreciate a detailed listing
> for each color related to volume.
>
> Thank you all so far!
>
> Gerd
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What types of papers do you want to print on?

I am using a K4+ approach that currently uses a 100%-30%-9%-6% Eboni-Base ratio. 
In other words,

K = 100% carbon
M = 30% carbon
C = 9% carbon
Y = 6% carbon

After recent conversation with Paul, I will be changing this to:

K = 100% carbon
M = 18% carbon
C = 6% carbon
Y = 2% carbon

Because I do occassionally print on glossy and more than anything want 
more control of the Lab a & b curves, 


LM = 30% M
LC = 30% C

If you want to print exclusively on glossy, then you will have prolems using the 
K4 arbon approach and will need to look at using C & M inks more than Eboni 
carbon or use a print over spray to prevent the carbon from rubbing off the 
paper.

I hope this helps.

Phil



________________________________

From: Gerd <lichtwert@gmx.net>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, March 10, 2011 4:25:02 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Carbon-6 for eight-color-printer (R2880)

  
Hello to everyone!

I have searched the posts for about two hours, but now my head ist in total 
confusion.

My question:

what are the specific/explicit dilutions for a carbon-6 mixing for an 
eight-color printer like the R2880? I would appreciate a detailed listing for 
each color related to volume.

Thank you all so far!

Gerd





      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Gerd" <lichtwert@...> wrote:
>
> ...
> what are the specific/explicit dilutions for a carbon-6 mixing for an eight-color printer like the R2880? I would appreciate a detailed listing for each color related to volume.


I have never actually set up a 2880.  Even with my 7800 I have non-Eboni inks in 3 positions.  So, the "perfect" setup for an 8-ink printer involves some uncertainty. However, start with what I recommend in the PDFs on the subject.

Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
>
> ...
> If you are making your own profile doesn't matter which
> dilution goes in which channel.


This is true if one makes QuadToneRip profiles.  This is what I use to print with my 7800.

However, I most often like to set up a printer with an ink arrangement that is compatible with the Epson driver.  I think this lowers the entry barriers for new users.  If they can load the inkset, hit the Print button in PS and get an OK print, the positive feedback avoids a lot of headaches (both for them and me).

So, to get down the learning curve with the least amount of pain, I recommend new people start with an inkset that is compatible with the Epson driver, then learn simple linearization so that QTR's Create ICC-RGB can be used to make ICCs, and finally, learn the full QTR rip approach, which allows one freedom from the Epson driver constraints.

Back to step one -- the Epson driver compatible Eboni-6 arrangement for an Epson k3 class printer: page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf has the recommended setup.

For Carbon-6 I recommend the same mixing ratios as for Eboni-6.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf

Note that I initially used a different mixing ratio for Carbon-6 to facilitate mixing with no scales.  This ran into several problems.  Stick to the 100, 30, 18, 9, 6, 2% standard Eboni/Carbon-6 ratios.  Once the base is mixed the  specific gravities are close enough to use the same ratios for both volume and weight mixing.

For the base, the only ingredient you need to adjust for is the glycerol -- heavy at a specific gravity of about 1.26.  So, the volume would be the weight percentage divided by this, with water being the remainder -- taking up the amount of the difference.

There is at least one possibly open issue with respect to the recommended Eboni-6 ratios in K3 printers.  With the original Carb-6 mix, the C-position was 33%, then the M/LK was 16.5%.  If no PS curve was used to partition the inks, there was some posterization in the deep shadows.  The high gray substitution of the K3 printers with an input of an R=G=B grayscale file caused the relatively lighter, original Carb-6 16% LK to be too light relative to the darker 33% C-position ink.  I believe this is not a problem with the standard Eboni/Carbon-6 setup (using 18% for LK and 30% for C), but it's something to keep an eye on.  If it is a problem, then the LK needs to be the 30% ink, not the 18% ink.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hello Michael, Paul and Philip!

Thank you very much for your tips and your response. And after reading Paul's pdf-files I know now how to setup a 8-colour-printer.

Well, just to let you know: I print now for about 1 1/2 years very content with Paul's first C-6 self-mixed-inks and a dedicated R220. But now I want to upgrade to A3 and I'm checking the options. I want to continue with the open-source-inks.

I still have some questions regarding the mixing of the base (I already posted regarding Edwal LFN)relating to the droplet-size of the printer. But I will post this in a new thread.


Gerd

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <lichtwert@...> wrote:

>
> Hello to everyone!
> 
> I have searched the posts for about two hours, but now my head ist in total confusion.
> 
> My question:
> 
> what are the specific/explicit dilutions for a carbon-6 mixing for an eight-color printer like the R2880? I would appreciate a detailed listing for each color related to volume.
> 
> Thank you all so far!
> 
> 
> Gerd
>

Paul,

Just to be clear when you describe the following issue - that's using the
Epson driver - correct ? Txs Mike

>>There is at least one possibly open issue with respect to the recommended
Eboni-6 ratios in K3 printers. With the original Carb-6 mix, the C-position
was 33%, then the M/LK was 16.5%. If no PS curve was used to partition the
inks, there was some posterization in the deep shadows. The high gray
substitution of the K3 printers with an input of an R=G=B grayscale file
caused the relatively lighter, original Carb-6 16% LK to be too light
relative to the darker 33% C-position ink. I believe this is not a problem
with the standard Eboni/Carbon-6 setup (using 18% for LK and 30% for C), but
it's something to keep an eye on. If it is a problem, then the LK needs to
be the 30% ink, not the 18% ink

On 10 March 2011 17:05, Paul <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
>
> "Gerd" <lichtwert@...> wrote:
> >
> > ...
>
> > what are the specific/explicit dilutions for a carbon-6 mixing for an
> eight-color printer like the R2880? I would appreciate a detailed listing
> for each color related to volume.
>
> I have never actually set up a 2880. Even with my 7800 I have non-Eboni
> inks in 3 positions. So, the "perfect" setup for an 8-ink printer involves
> some uncertainty. However, start with what I recommend in the PDFs on the
> subject.
>
> Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >
> > ...
>
> > If you are making your own profile doesn't matter which
> > dilution goes in which channel.
>
> This is true if one makes QuadToneRip profiles. This is what I use to print
> with my 7800.
>
> However, I most often like to set up a printer with an ink arrangement that
> is compatible with the Epson driver. I think this lowers the entry barriers
> for new users. If they can load the inkset, hit the Print button in PS and
> get an OK print, the positive feedback avoids a lot of headaches (both for
> them and me).
>
> So, to get down the learning curve with the least amount of pain, I
> recommend new people start with an inkset that is compatible with the Epson
> driver, then learn simple linearization so that QTR's Create ICC-RGB can be
> used to make ICCs, and finally, learn the full QTR rip approach, which
> allows one freedom from the Epson driver constraints.
>
> Back to step one -- the Epson driver compatible Eboni-6 arrangement for an
> Epson k3 class printer: page 2 of
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf has the recommended setup.
>
> For Carbon-6 I recommend the same mixing ratios as for Eboni-6. See
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf
>
> Note that I initially used a different mixing ratio for Carbon-6 to
> facilitate mixing with no scales. This ran into several problems. Stick to
> the 100, 30, 18, 9, 6, 2% standard Eboni/Carbon-6 ratios. Once the base is
> mixed the specific gravities are close enough to use the same ratios for
> both volume and weight mixing.
>
> For the base, the only ingredient you need to adjust for is the glycerol --
> heavy at a specific gravity of about 1.26. So, the volume would be the
> weight percentage divided by this, with water being the remainder -- taking
> up the amount of the difference.
>
> There is at least one possibly open issue with respect to the recommended
> Eboni-6 ratios in K3 printers. With the original Carb-6 mix, the C-position
> was 33%, then the M/LK was 16.5%. If no PS curve was used to partition the
> inks, there was some posterization in the deep shadows. The high gray
> substitution of the K3 printers with an input of an R=G=B grayscale file
> caused the relatively lighter, original Carb-6 16% LK to be too light
> relative to the darker 33% C-position ink. I believe this is not a problem
> with the standard Eboni/Carbon-6 setup (using 18% for LK and 30% for C), but
> it's something to keep an eye on. If it is a problem, then the LK needs to
> be the 30% ink, not the 18% ink.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, Mike, the potential issue is just with respect to the Epson driver and the k3 printers. The problem related to my attempt at an easier sequential mixing for the first iteration of Carbon-6.  It turned out to be a mistake for the k3's -- 33% too strong relative ot the 16.5% LK (M).  I think the K3s are OK with the standard 100, 30, 18, 9, 6, 2% mix, where LK = 18%, but I just don't have good enough notes to be sure.

With QTR you can mix and control any reasonable blend.

I do, however, try to keep my mixes uniform and as Epson driver compatible as possible, so that profiles can be shared and novices can get up and running more quickly.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> Paul,
> 
> Just to be clear when you describe the following issue - that's using the
> Epson driver - correct ? Txs Mike
> 
> >>There is at least one possibly open issue with respect to the recommended
> Eboni-6 ratios in K3 printers. With the original Carb-6 mix, the C-position
> was 33%, then the M/LK was 16.5%. If no PS curve was used to partition the
> inks, there was some posterization in the deep shadows. The high gray
> substitution of the K3 printers with an input of an R=G=B grayscale file
> caused the relatively lighter, original Carb-6 16% LK to be too light
> relative to the darker 33% C-position ink. I believe this is not a problem
> with the standard Eboni/Carbon-6 setup (using 18% for LK and 30% for C), but
> it's something to keep an eye on. If it is a problem, then the LK needs to
> be the 30% ink, not the 18% ink
> 
> On 10 March 2011 17:05, Paul <roark.paul@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > "Gerd" <lichtwert@> wrote:
> > >
> > > ...
> >
> > > what are the specific/explicit dilutions for a carbon-6 mixing for an
> > eight-color printer like the R2880? I would appreciate a detailed listing
> > for each color related to volume.
> >
> > I have never actually set up a 2880. Even with my 7800 I have non-Eboni
> > inks in 3 positions. So, the "perfect" setup for an 8-ink printer involves
> > some uncertainty. However, start with what I recommend in the PDFs on the
> > subject.
> >
> > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > >
> > > ...
> >
> > > If you are making your own profile doesn't matter which
> > > dilution goes in which channel.
> >
> > This is true if one makes QuadToneRip profiles. This is what I use to print
> > with my 7800.
> >
> > However, I most often like to set up a printer with an ink arrangement that
> > is compatible with the Epson driver. I think this lowers the entry barriers
> > for new users. If they can load the inkset, hit the Print button in PS and
> > get an OK print, the positive feedback avoids a lot of headaches (both for
> > them and me).
> >
> > So, to get down the learning curve with the least amount of pain, I
> > recommend new people start with an inkset that is compatible with the Epson
> > driver, then learn simple linearization so that QTR's Create ICC-RGB can be
> > used to make ICCs, and finally, learn the full QTR rip approach, which
> > allows one freedom from the Epson driver constraints.
> >
> > Back to step one -- the Epson driver compatible Eboni-6 arrangement for an
> > Epson k3 class printer: page 2 of
> > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf has the recommended setup.
> >
> > For Carbon-6 I recommend the same mixing ratios as for Eboni-6. See
> > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf
> >
> > Note that I initially used a different mixing ratio for Carbon-6 to
> > facilitate mixing with no scales. This ran into several problems. Stick to
> > the 100, 30, 18, 9, 6, 2% standard Eboni/Carbon-6 ratios. Once the base is
> > mixed the specific gravities are close enough to use the same ratios for
> > both volume and weight mixing.
> >
> > For the base, the only ingredient you need to adjust for is the glycerol --
> > heavy at a specific gravity of about 1.26. So, the volume would be the
> > weight percentage divided by this, with water being the remainder -- taking
> > up the amount of the difference.
> >
> > There is at least one possibly open issue with respect to the recommended
> > Eboni-6 ratios in K3 printers. With the original Carb-6 mix, the C-position
> > was 33%, then the M/LK was 16.5%. If no PS curve was used to partition the
> > inks, there was some posterization in the deep shadows. The high gray
> > substitution of the K3 printers with an input of an R=G=B grayscale file
> > caused the relatively lighter, original Carb-6 16% LK to be too light
> > relative to the darker 33% C-position ink. I believe this is not a problem
> > with the standard Eboni/Carbon-6 setup (using 18% for LK and 30% for C), but
> > it's something to keep an eye on. If it is a problem, then the LK needs to
> > be the 30% ink, not the 18% ink.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>