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2011-06-02 by Susan Koons
I am planning on taking a 4x5 with me on a trip. It will be the first time I will intentionally shoot with scanning in mind. Is it best to basically shoot and develop at a N-1 to get all the tones and use curves to adjust for printing? thanks Dan
2011-06-02 by John
Yes, it would be better to under develop to avoid blocking up white tones. But, maybe compensate with over exposure also to get all those details in the blacks. Kinda depends on the d-max capabilities of your scanner. Would try a few sheets first before leaving on the trip. John Nollendorfs. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Koons" <hackberrytree@...> wrote:
> > I am planning on taking a 4x5 with me on a trip. It will be the first time I will intentionally shoot with scanning in mind. Is it best to basically shoot and develop at a N-1 to get all the tones and use curves to adjust for printing? thanks Dan >
2011-06-02 by Ernst Dinkla
On 06/02/2011 05:55 PM, John wrote: > Yes, it would be better to under develop to avoid blocking up white > tones. But, maybe compensate with over exposure also to get all those > details in the blacks. Kinda depends on the d-max capabilities of > your scanner. > > John Nollendorfs. And how harsh its lighting is. Thin shadow area is more problematic with a Nikon 8000 than with an Epson V700. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2011-06-02 by MICHAEL KIRWAN
Sandy King published a great article in View Camera magazine on this very topic. He recommends using a divided developer, first bath D-23 second bath 10% solution of Kodalk. This has become my standard when scanning, works great on TMX-100, FP4+ and Acros - 4 minutes in each bath; the other benefit is box speed. Hope this helps Mike ________________________________
From: Susan Koons <hackberrytree@...> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 8:49:01 AM Subject: [Digital BW] film development for scanning I am planning on taking a 4x5 with me on a trip. It will be the first time I will intentionally shoot with scanning in mind. Is it best to basically shoot and develop at a N-1 to get all the tones and use curves to adjust for printing? thanks Dan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-06-02 by bwyg@nc.rr.com
Depends on your image, your film, your processing, your scanner, your scanner software, and of course, your skills, among other things. In broad generalities, if you are ever going to use the film in the darkroom, then optimize for the darkroom. It will scan just fine. If you are *only* going to scan the film, and the film is B&W (the image is formed from metallic silver), then lower density is better -- to a point. You can go too low. In my own work (5x4 TMY-2, XTOL, ColorGetter 3Pro, ColorRight Pro 2.0, and years of experimenting) I found that N-1 is generally a good place to start. My theory on what makes this true is Callier Effect, which isn't constant across an image. Callier Effect increases with increasing density, and typically results in decreased local contrast (caused by increasing light scatter) in areas of increased density on the film. Since color films don't experience Callier Effect (image is formed from transparent dye clouds), there is little benefit to scanning from density manipulation of the film. The Zone System teaches us that you have to do your own tests to find out what's optimum for your own personal workflow. Even if half your workflow is now digital. You still have to do the work to optimize your own process. But I'm sure you knew that already. -- Bruce Watson ---- Susan Koons <hackberrytree@...> wrote: > I am planning on taking a 4x5 with me on a trip. It will be the first time I will intentionally shoot with scanning in mind. Is it best to basically shoot and develop at a N-1 to get all the tones and use curves to adjust for printing?
2011-06-02 by Susan Koons
I appreciate the advice on film developing. In the past I usually used one film holder per scene, two shoots in case of a mishap, wind, or wrong development.... or Murphy's Law. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Koons" <hackberrytree@...> wrote:
> > I am planning on taking a 4x5 with me on a trip. It will be the first time I will intentionally shoot with scanning in mind. Is it best to basically shoot and develop at a N-1 to get all the tones and use curves to adjust for printing? thanks Dan >
2011-06-02 by Susan Koons
I appreciate the advice on film developing. In the past I usually used one film holder per scene, two shoots in case of a mishap, wind, or wrong development.... or Murphy's Law. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Koons" <hackberrytree@...> wrote:
> > I am planning on taking a 4x5 with me on a trip. It will be the first time I will intentionally shoot with scanning in mind. Is it best to basically shoot and develop at a N-1 to get all the tones and use curves to adjust for printing? thanks Dan >
2011-06-03 by Walker Blackwell
I develop TMX 100 at N - .5 with 120 film and N - 1 with 4/5. (it depends on lens and camera etc). TMX film has low fog and very articulated shadow detail even at low densities. I use Tmax RS developer as 1-shot. This seems to work very well for scanning as positive and inverting later. Minimal curve adjustments needed. I also use Lightroom for the first inversion and tonal shifts. It works very well indeed. All the best, Walker
2011-06-03 by Paul
Walker, A good thread, thanks all. Tell me, what is "articulated shadow detail"? Thanks! Paul --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
> > I develop TMX 100 at N - .5 with 120 film and N - 1 with 4/5. (it depends on lens and camera etc). TMX film has low fog and very articulated shadow detail even at low densities. > > I use Tmax RS developer as 1-shot. This seems to work very well for scanning as positive and inverting later. Minimal curve adjustments needed. > > I also use Lightroom for the first inversion and tonal shifts. It works very well indeed. > > All the best, > Walker >
2011-06-03 by E.Neilsen
One of the beautiful aspects of film scanning is the ability to do multiple scans and blend later, and this is key to "if you are going to print it as a SG at some point." A well crafted negative will scan or print well but those with excessive contrast seem to be hardest to deal with in my experience. Low contrast negs that might prove to be a nightmare in the darkroom, scan with ease. I'd get my hands on a color checker chart and dedicate at least 4 sheets of film to it and shoot it full frame in the conditions you plan to shoot; dusk, daylight, dawn, and process them. If you were not planning on going directly from negative to print, I'd also consider a COLOR film, so you can take advantage of digital ICE in scanning. Eric Neilsen Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 www.ericneilsenphotography.com skype me with ejprinter www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1 Let's Talk Photography _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bwyg@... Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:24 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Cc: Susan Koons Subject: Re: [Digital BW] film development for scanning Depends on your image, your film, your processing, your scanner, your scanner software, and of course, your skills, among other things. In broad generalities, if you are ever going to use the film in the darkroom, then optimize for the darkroom. It will scan just fine. If you are *only* going to scan the film, and the film is B&W (the image is formed from metallic silver), then lower density is better -- to a point. You can go too low. In my own work (5x4 TMY-2, XTOL, ColorGetter 3Pro, ColorRight Pro 2.0, and years of experimenting) I found that N-1 is generally a good place to start. My theory on what makes this true is Callier Effect, which isn't constant across an image. Callier Effect increases with increasing density, and typically results in decreased local contrast (caused by increasing light scatter) in areas of increased density on the film. Since color films don't experience Callier Effect (image is formed from transparent dye clouds), there is little benefit to scanning from density manipulation of the film. The Zone System teaches us that you have to do your own tests to find out what's optimum for your own personal workflow. Even if half your workflow is now digital. You still have to do the work to optimize your own process. But I'm sure you knew that already. -- Bruce Watson ---- Susan Koons <hackberrytree@... <mailto:hackberrytree%40att.net> > wrote: > I am planning on taking a 4x5 with me on a trip. It will be the first time I will intentionally shoot with scanning in mind. Is it best to basically shoot and develop at a N-1 to get all the tones and use curves to adjust for printing? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-06-04 by James Irelan
I've been out of it for a while, developing guitars, but I remember that scanners vastly prefer underdeveloped film to dense film. I've been amazed at getting totally useable images from negs that would have been worthless in an enlarger. These were accidents- I'm not advocating deliberate underdevelopment to the extent of the negs I'm talking about, but I am saying that I've seen negs closer to normal that the enlarger would have loved that were too dense in the highs for the scanner, and, unlike with the enlarger: nothing you can do about it. So, if I go back to shooting new film to be scanned, I'd approach an N minus scheme. Not to the accident level, but definitely less than normal for an enlarger. James Sent from my iPhone On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:50 PM, Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote: > I develop TMX 100 at N - .5 with 120 film and N - 1 with 4/5. (it depends on lens and camera etc). TMX film has low fog and very articulated shadow detail even at low densities. > > I use Tmax RS developer as 1-shot. This seems to work very well for scanning as positive and inverting later. Minimal curve adjustments needed. > > I also use Lightroom for the first inversion and tonal shifts. It works very well indeed. > > All the best, > Walker > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-06-04 by George Pappas
An excellent thread. As with many things in the post-digital world - the answer is not simple. I say this because I have recently achieved better results scanning my 4x5 and 5x7 film that was developed N+11/2 than the "N" negatives. What was better about these scans? They had better close value tonal separation right out of the scanner. The key point here is that the negatives were exposed and developed to a proper N+ such that the highlights were not blocked, only the local contrast throughout the negative's tonal range was changed which made it easier for the scanner to capture in the image file. As in most things, you need to test for yourself. With large negatives, the grain "seen" by the scanner is different than smaller negatives. Additionally, post-scanning workflow is the largest driver of image quality in my experience. I agree with another poster that with large format negatives, expose and develop for your chemical process first, as it is more difficult to change for image output later. Scanning is so malleable that you can tune your results for digital processing and output with more flexibility. Best of luck in your work! Regards, George On Jun 4, 2011, at 8:03 AM, James Irelan wrote: > I've been out of it for a while, developing guitars, but I remember that scanners vastly prefer underdeveloped film to dense film. I've been amazed at getting totally useable images from negs that would have been worthless in an enlarger. These were accidents- I'm not advocating deliberate underdevelopment to the extent of the negs I'm talking about, but I am saying that I've seen negs closer to normal that the enlarger would have loved that were too dense in the highs for the scanner, and, unlike with the enlarger: nothing you can do about it. So, if I go back to shooting new film to be scanned, I'd approach an N minus scheme. Not to the accident level, but definitely less than normal for an enlarger. > > James > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:50 PM, Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote: > > > I develop TMX 100 at N - .5 with 120 film and N - 1 with 4/5. (it depends on lens and camera etc). TMX film has low fog and very articulated shadow detail even at low densities. > > > > I use Tmax RS developer as 1-shot. This seems to work very well for scanning as positive and inverting later. Minimal curve adjustments needed. > > > > I also use Lightroom for the first inversion and tonal shifts. It works very well indeed. > > > > All the best, > > Walker > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]