Digital BW, The Print

For those of you using the 3800 and aftermarket refillable cartridges/inks...
I have had a problem for over a year that I believe I may have finally solved. (I am using a B&W ink set.) You may wish to know about this.

I either forgot about or missed the message from Leslie Otterbein posted last year and quoted below in response to my desperation. (Heads kept getting clogged, or so it seemed, without rhyme or reason.) I found it yesterday when doing a search for a solution to my current repeat of the problem. (I let the printer sit for over a year due to illness and exasperation, but then got it going again a week or so ago.)

To cut to the chase: I filled all the cartridges to the max line (they were only at about the 80% full level so there should not have been a problem, but..!)

Then I replaced all of the O-rings in the Cone cartridges with #8 rings (larger and fatter, and yes it was a struggle to get them in; do not try to force in the bigger O rings without removing the cartridges from the printer first). This morning I ran three quick cleaning cycles and after two days of frustration am ready to print again.

It remains to be seen if inks will start 'disappearing' from nozzle checks when levels get lower again, which would indicate that the fatter O rings don't help, but it appears this problem is solved. I will post any updates.

>I don't have the Cone system and inks, but I use the inkrepublic
>system. Other than the ink, it is the identical system.

>Judging from my experience with the inkrepublic system I am willing to
>wager the problem is not clogs per se but rather pressure.

>_some_of these cartridges cannot maintain enough pressure to keep the
>ink flowing. The 3800 pressurizes the cartridges and that pushes the
>ink through. However, the aftermarket cartridges are a different size.
>Perhaps that is a contributing factor.

>To cut to the chase, try putting more ink in the cartridge and do some
>cleaning cycles. The ink should come back. I was sitting with only
>half my nozzle colours for a week before I stumbled upon this
>solution. Even though there may still be ink in your cartridge, it
>will be too low to get to the printhead because the pressure is too
>low. Some cartridges are good though.

Hi David:

Glad you finally got my message. 

For your information, since I solved the problem I have had virtually no problems with the aftermarket carts. 

One other thing I did, which may or may not work, is inject air into the cartridge. The printer itself pushes air into the cartridge, but my reasoning was that perhaps more air pressure might help, especially if the line has been empty for a while. I used a syringe with a fairly large needle, one that fits the hole in the cartridge designed for that purpose. Or perhaps a tiny hose that will fit.

Leslie Otterbein

On 2011-06-24, at 4:39 AM, davidkachel wrote:

> For those of you using the 3800 and aftermarket refillable cartridges/inks...
> I have had a problem for over a year that I believe I may have finally solved. (I am using a B&W ink set.) You may wish to know about this.
> 
> I either forgot about or missed the message from Leslie Otterbein posted last year and quoted below in response to my desperation. (Heads kept getting clogged, or so it seemed, without rhyme or reason.) I found it yesterday when doing a search for a solution to my current repeat of the problem. (I let the printer sit for over a year due to illness and exasperation, but then got it going again a week or so ago.)
> 
> To cut to the chase: I filled all the cartridges to the max line (they were only at about the 80% full level so there should not have been a problem, but..!)
> 
> Then I replaced all of the O-rings in the Cone cartridges with #8 rings (larger and fatter, and yes it was a struggle to get them in; do not try to force in the bigger O rings without removing the cartridges from the printer first). This morning I ran three quick cleaning cycles and after two days of frustration am ready to print again.
> 
> It remains to be seen if inks will start 'disappearing' from nozzle checks when levels get lower again, which would indicate that the fatter O rings don't help, but it appears this problem is solved. I will post any updates.
> 
> >I don't have the Cone system and inks, but I use the inkrepublic
> >system. Other than the ink, it is the identical system.
> 
> >Judging from my experience with the inkrepublic system I am willing to
> >wager the problem is not clogs per se but rather pressure.
> 
> >_some_of these cartridges cannot maintain enough pressure to keep the
> >ink flowing. The 3800 pressurizes the cartridges and that pushes the
> >ink through. However, the aftermarket cartridges are a different size.
> >Perhaps that is a contributing factor.
> 
> >To cut to the chase, try putting more ink in the cartridge and do some
> >cleaning cycles. The ink should come back. I was sitting with only
> >half my nozzle colours for a week before I stumbled upon this
> >solution. Even though there may still be ink in your cartridge, it
> >will be too low to get to the printhead because the pressure is too
> >low. Some cartridges are good though.
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>

>Glad you finally got my message.
>
>For your information, since I solved the problem I have had virtually no
>problems with the aftermarket carts.

Well, after some thought, I vaguely recall seeing your message and
assuming it did not apply in my case because I had so much ink in the
cartridges that the levels couldn't be low enough to qualify under your
description... obviously a hasty assumption as this time around I realized
they were 80% full when the problem started.

What really puzzles me is why there isn't a whole lot more mention of this
problem! Or has this aftermarket ink/cartridge specialty community grown
so small that it takes an inordinately long time for anything to boil to
the top? I hope not as personally I see a very genuine need for it and not
simply to save money on inks.

Anyway, thanks again for the mystery solving clue, even if I was a year
late to the party.

I am curious. Did you happen to get a hostile denial in reaction to your
reporting the defective cartridges to the source from which you purchased
them?


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

Hi David:

Inkrepublic was very good to me as a matter of fact. They sent me two  
or three bottles of ink to compensate for my troubles. Also when I  
first got the cartridges, one of the chips they provided was  
defective, so they sent extra cartridges gratis. Their support was  
pretty good.

Leslie Otterbein

On Jun 26, 2011, at 7:53 PM, David Kachel wrote:

>
> >
> >For your information, since I solved the problem I have had  
> virtually no
> >problems with the aftermarket carts.
>
> Well, after some thought, I vaguely recall seeing your message and
> assuming it did not apply in my case because I had so much ink in the
> cartridges that the levels couldn't be low enough to qualify under  
> your
> description... obviously a hasty assumption as this time around I  
> realized
> they were 80% full when the problem started.
>
> What really puzzles me is why there isn't a whole lot more mention  
> of this
> problem! Or has this aftermarket ink/cartridge specialty community  
> grown
> so small that it takes an inordinately long time for anything to  
> boil to
> the top? I hope not as personally I see a very genuine need for it  
> and not
> simply to save money on inks.
>
> Anyway, thanks again for the mystery solving clue, even if I was a  
> year
> late to the party.
>
> I am curious. Did you happen to get a hostile denial in reaction to  
> your
> reporting the defective cartridges to the source from which you  
> purchased
> them?
>
> David Kachel

Leslie Otterbein

web.me.com/lotterbein
http://gallery.me.com/lotterbein#

OK, here's the update I promised.

Since I had an ink set I could no longer replenish and some paper that is also no longer available I decided to print a special edition and use them all up...

I got close, but:

Though the fatter O rings did indeed allow me to use a somewhat greater percentage of ink before nozzles started "disappearing" from nozzle checks, I don't feel it is enough difference to bother when the solution with or without the bigger O rings is to keep the cartridges full all the time.

The bottom line is the design of these cartridges is defective. They can be used, but you have to consider the first 120 ml of ink in each cartridge as thrown away.

Of course, I was told a different story, towit: I ruined the cartridges by cleaning my system with Windex as instructed by everyone in the industry save the person who sold me the cartridges. Convenient.

David, I'm sorry to hear about all the problems you've had.

I recall reading a comment about the early 3800 refillable cartridges having
an issue, and something then being changed. I don't think there was any more
detail than that. 

I purchased a set of these in September, and I will be installing them
(finally) in the next few weeks. I do hope that I have a clean installation.

What direction will you be going now?

Terry.

On 11-07-02 9:36 AM, "davidkachel" <david@...> wrote:

> OK, here's the update I promised.
> 
> Since I had an ink set I could no longer replenish and some paper that is also
> no longer available I decided to print a special edition and use them all
> up...
> 
> I got close, but:
> 
> Though the fatter O rings did indeed allow me to use a somewhat greater
> percentage of ink before nozzles started "disappearing" from nozzle checks, I
> don't feel it is enough difference to bother when the solution with or without
> the bigger O rings is to keep the cartridges full all the time.
> 
> The bottom line is the design of these cartridges is defective. They can be
> used, but you have to consider the first 120 ml of ink in each cartridge as
> thrown away.
> 
> Of course, I was told a different story, towit: I ruined the cartridges by
> cleaning my system with Windex as instructed by everyone in the industry save
> the person who sold me the cartridges. Convenient.

>>> What direction will you be going now?

Sadly I feel I have little choice but to resort to OEM inks which I find
only moderately acceptable visually, unacceptable archivally, and criminally
overpriced (the most expensive liquids on Earth).

I would never have guessed that simple brown tone B&W inks, and reliable
cartridges, for the most popular pro level printer would be so difficult to
come by.




David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]