Digital BW, The Print

Any idea what would cause this? Printing on Gold Fibre Silk. Applied Paul's curve, UT14-IlfordGold-N-1, to the rgb-raw-16.psd file and to the  21 step RGB file, printed the 21 step on my 1400 per the glossy paper driver settings, dried it and took readings with my Colordata spectro.  I double checked the ink positions in the 1400 and they appear correct.

BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT
SampleID	GRAY	LAB_L	LAB_A	LAB_B
END_DATA_FORMAT
NUMBER_OF_SETS	21
BEGIN_DATA
1	0	13.11	0.04	-1.03
2	5	9.02	1.34	-2.04
3	10	9.56	1.18	-1.06
4	15	13.70	1.50	0.02
5	20	18.12	1.59	1.31
6	25	22.32	2.08	2.38
7	30	25.95	2.09	3.57
8	35	29.10	2.40	3.76
9	40	31.34	2.50	4.06
10	45	33.79	2.37	4.39
11	50	36.49	2.28	4.43
12	55	40.88	2.40	4.47
13	60	44.87	2.29	4.42
14	65	49.69	2.10	4.53
15	70	54.67	2.20	4.24
16	75	60.26	2.12	4.21
17	80	66.47	1.82	3.76
18	85	73.28	1.70	2.65
19	90	82.61	1.49	1.29
20	95	90.85	1.27	-0.21
21	100	97.44	1.10	-1.09
END_DATA

Any hints really appreciated.

Sorry, the formatting didn't transfer properly.  Here's the Lab A and B measurements:

LAB_A___LAB_B
	
	
	
0.04___-1.03
1.34___-2.04
1.18___-1.06
1.5_____0.02
1.59____1.31
2.08____2.38
2.09____3.57
2.4_____3.76
2.5_____4.06
2.37____4.39
2.28____4.43
2.4_____4.47
2.29____4.42
2.1_____4.53
2.2_____4.24
2.12____4.21
1.82____3.76
1.7_____2.65
1.49____1.29
1.27___-0.21
1.1____-1.09

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "thusband2003" <tom.husband@...> wrote:

>
> Any idea what would cause this? Printing on Gold Fibre Silk. Applied Paul's curve, UT14-IlfordGold-N-1, to the rgb-raw-16.psd file and to the  21 step RGB file, printed the 21 step on my 1400 per the glossy paper driver settings, dried it and took readings with my Colordata spectro.  I double checked the ink positions in the 1400 and they appear correct.
> 
> BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT
> SampleID	GRAY	LAB_L	LAB_A	LAB_B
> END_DATA_FORMAT
> NUMBER_OF_SETS	21
> BEGIN_DATA
> 1	0	13.11	0.04	-1.03
> 2	5	9.02	1.34	-2.04
> 3	10	9.56	1.18	-1.06
> 4	15	13.70	1.50	0.02
> 5	20	18.12	1.59	1.31
> 6	25	22.32	2.08	2.38
> 7	30	25.95	2.09	3.57
> 8	35	29.10	2.40	3.76
> 9	40	31.34	2.50	4.06
> 10	45	33.79	2.37	4.39
> 11	50	36.49	2.28	4.43
> 12	55	40.88	2.40	4.47
> 13	60	44.87	2.29	4.42
> 14	65	49.69	2.10	4.53
> 15	70	54.67	2.20	4.24
> 16	75	60.26	2.12	4.21
> 17	80	66.47	1.82	3.76
> 18	85	73.28	1.70	2.65
> 19	90	82.61	1.49	1.29
> 20	95	90.85	1.27	-0.21
> 21	100	97.44	1.10	-1.09
> END_DATA
> 
> Any hints really appreciated.
>

Tom,

I'm not sure what would cause those values.  You can open the ICCs with Notepad and see the Lab A and B values I read.  Lab B values with the 1400-IlfordGold-N-1-nca-rgb.icc are a fairly straight line from -1 for the paper to +1 for the black.  The dmax I got was Lab L = 6.6.  With the output you measured the dmax was weak and also not reached at 100%.

So, assuming the inks are correct, I think the wrong profile got loaded.

In experimenting with the 1100 a few of us have noticed that sometimes the wrong profile prints the first time we use the printer, presumably after some other printer or profile has been used.  I have since noticed that happen with another Epson driver/printer.

So, I'm not sure what is causing this, but there is something in at least the Windows 7, CS5, Epson driver, ICC workflow that loads the wrong profile initially.  Maybe that happened to you.  Usually when I notice this problem occurring the 21-step Lab L ramp is way off, so it's obvious something is very wrong.

Try loading the Ilford Gold Neutral ICC and first just print a 21-step on a plain paper.  Then try the "real" test and see if it's any different.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "thusband2003" <tom.husband@...> wrote:

>
> Any idea what would cause this? Printing on Gold Fibre Silk. Applied Paul's curve, UT14-IlfordGold-N-1, to the rgb-raw-16.psd file and to the  21 step RGB file, printed the 21 step on my 1400 per the glossy paper driver settings, dried it and took readings with my Colordata spectro.  I double checked the ink positions in the 1400 and they appear correct.
> 
> BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT
> SampleID	GRAY	LAB_L	LAB_A	LAB_B
> END_DATA_FORMAT
> NUMBER_OF_SETS	21
> BEGIN_DATA
> 1	0	13.11	0.04	-1.03
> 2	5	9.02	1.34	-2.04
> 3	10	9.56	1.18	-1.06
> 4	15	13.70	1.50	0.02
> 5	20	18.12	1.59	1.31
> 6	25	22.32	2.08	2.38
> 7	30	25.95	2.09	3.57
> 8	35	29.10	2.40	3.76
> 9	40	31.34	2.50	4.06
> 10	45	33.79	2.37	4.39
> 11	50	36.49	2.28	4.43
> 12	55	40.88	2.40	4.47
> 13	60	44.87	2.29	4.42
> 14	65	49.69	2.10	4.53
> 15	70	54.67	2.20	4.24
> 16	75	60.26	2.12	4.21
> 17	80	66.47	1.82	3.76
> 18	85	73.28	1.70	2.65
> 19	90	82.61	1.49	1.29
> 20	95	90.85	1.27	-0.21
> 21	100	97.44	1.10	-1.09
> END_DATA
> 
> Any hints really appreciated.
>

Thanks Paul,

I'll play around with it some more.  I thought maybe I got some carts with
wrong inks in them.  I've read that MIS does that occasionally.

I might just chuck this and go with the EB6 set up.  Sounds like it might be
better anyway.  I went with U14 because I really like the Gold Fibre Silk
paper

Tom

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Paul <roark.paul@...> wrote:

> Tom,
>
> I'm not sure what would cause those values.  You can open the ICCs with
> Notepad and see the Lab A and B values I read.  Lab B values with the
> 1400-IlfordGold-N-1-nca-rgb.icc are a fairly straight line from -1 for the
> paper to +1 for the black.  The dmax I got was Lab L = 6.6.  With the output
> you measured the dmax was weak and also not reached at 100%.
>
> So, assuming the inks are correct, I think the wrong profile got loaded.
>
> In experimenting with the 1100 a few of us have noticed that sometimes the
> wrong profile prints the first time we use the printer, presumably after
> some other printer or profile has been used.  I have since noticed that
> happen with another Epson driver/printer.
>
> So, I'm not sure what is causing this, but there is something in at least
> the Windows 7, CS5, Epson driver, ICC workflow that loads the wrong profile
> initially.  Maybe that happened to you.  Usually when I notice this problem
> occurring the 21-step Lab L ramp is way off, so it's obvious something is
> very wrong.
>
> Try loading the Ilford Gold Neutral ICC and first just print a 21-step on a
> plain paper.  Then try the "real" test and see if it's any different.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,
 
>  ... I thought maybe I got some carts with wrong inks in them. 

I used UT14 C and LC for the 1100 EZ setup.  So, I do have some current test strips with that ink -- but no Ilford Gold.  Basically, however, if you print with just the LC and C (make a curve that is just red/cyan with the other flat), you should get a Lab B curve on a glossy paper that is cool.  That is, if you draw a line on the graph from the paper white to the black, the Lab B graph will dip a little from that straight line.

 
> I might just chuck this and go with the EB6 set up.  
> Sounds like it might be better anyway.

It's very different than the UT14 on glossy paper, however.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com