Digital BW, The Print

> John:
> 
> You can get rather nice B&W images using QTR driver and the standard  
> epson inks. Why not try that first, QTR is free to try.
> 
> The 1400 is mentioned favourably, but you may have to mess around with  
> filling cartridges to run it B&W. (filling cartridges isn't that bad!)
> 
> Leslie Otterbein
> 
> On Sep 9, 2011, at 8:57 PM, John wrote:
> 
> > I hope this question is not too open-ended ...
> >
> > I've had an Epson 2200 for awhile for color printing. I would like  
> > to get into
> > B&W printing. Trying to read through the archives here, I am a bit  
> > overwhelmed
> > with the choices; UT7, UT2, Eboni-6, etc. Not to mention the variety  
> > of driver:
> > Epson's, QTR, OPM.
> >
> > So I'd like suggestions as to the best way for me to proceed towards  
> > getting
> > good quality B&W prints. I would like some balance of simplicity and  
> > quality.
> > I do not think I want to get into filling my own cartridges or  
> > building my own
> > profiles; and I do not have a densitometer. I see the Epson 1400  
> > highly
> > spoken of in some of the threads, and given its surprising low cost,  
> > I would
> > consider switching to it if the consensus is that it's worth it.
> >
> > Thanks !
> 
> Leslie Otterbein
> 
> web.me.com/lotterbein
> http://gallery.me.com/lotterbein#
>

> It was always $50 but on an honor system, I don't know as I paid for  
> mine. I don't know how I could compare different versions.
> 
> I think metamerism is a characteristic of the 2200 especially with  
> glossy paper, and the original ink. When I had mine, and used  
> aftermarket ink, there was still metamerism.
> 
> Here is a message I unearthed by googling "QTR and UT7": from the QTR- 
> Quadtone RIP  Yahoo group, in 2007.
> 
> Also try this link: http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT-2200-Readme.htm
> 
> Inksupply seems to say QTR and UT-7 are a good combo for Mac, but not
> for XP (see below).
> 
> Using XP, CS2 and Epson driver give me good results with UT-7, most
> remarkably with glossy : virtually no gloss differential, zero
> bronzing (Costco Kirkland).
> 
> QTR is great with Epson OEM pigs but not for me with UT-7 .
> 
> My results seem to confirm that UT-7 isn't appropriate for QTR with XP
> : Am I misreading Inksupply's statements(below)?
> 
> ULTRATONE 7 (UT7) FOR EPSON 2200, 7600 & 9600 7 COLOR PRINTERS
> 
> * Roark Configuration- This is for use with Windows or Mac and the
> Epson driver. There are 7 inks in the set. They will print from full
> sepia to cool using Photoshop adjustment curves or from warm to
> neutral using just the Epson sliders on the print driver. They will
> work in the 2200, 7600, and 9600 Epson printers. The workflow for the
> 2200 is released, the 7600/9600 workflow is under development (as of
> 5/22/04). The Roark Configuration inks and cartridges all start with
> UT7 as the first 3 digits of the part number. If you don't see this,
> you may have the other configuration.
> 
> * Bowhaus/QTR Configuration - We have Ultratone B&W inks
> specifically formulated to work with Bowhaus Inkjet Control and
> PrintMaker or with the Quadtone RIP software. Both of these
> applications are for Mac only. Bowhaus works with OS9 and Quadtone RIP
> works with OSX. These inks can not be used with the Epson driver. The
> set of 7 inks is a variable tone set that prints from full sepia to
> cool and anywhere in between. Both Photo Black and Eboni black are in
> the printer at the same time. The software controls which one is being
> used, while the other is shut off.
> 
> 
> On Sep 10, 2011, at 12:11 PM, John wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I messed around a little with QTR a couple years ago when I first  
> > tried
> > B&W printing. QTR was free at the time, but it looks like it's $50  
> > now.
> > Is the new version noticeably better ? Have they licked the metamerism
> > issue, even though the Epson inks are colored ?
> >
> > What about the option of the UT7 inks, no cartridge filling ? How much
> > better than QTR, with the Epson inks, is that ?
> >
> > Thanks for the help !
> >
> > John
> >
> > > John:
> > >
> > > You can get rather nice B&W images using QTR driver and the standard
> > > epson inks. Why not try that first, QTR is free to try.
> > >
> > > The 1400 is mentioned favourably, but you may have to mess around  
> > with
> > > filling cartridges to run it B&W. (filling cartridges isn't that  
> > bad!)
> > >
> > > Leslie Otterbein
> > >
> > > On Sep 9, 2011, at 8:57 PM, John wrote:
> > >
> > > > I hope this question is not too open-ended ...
> > > >
> > > > I've had an Epson 2200 for awhile for color printing. I would like
> > > > to get into
> > > > B&W printing. Trying to read through the archives here, I am a bit
> > > > overwhelmed
> > > > with the choices; UT7, UT2, Eboni-6, etc. Not to mention the  
> > variety
> > > > of driver:
> > > > Epson's, QTR, OPM.
> > > >
> > > > So I'd like suggestions as to the best way for me to proceed  
> > towards
> > > > getting
> > > > good quality B&W prints. I would like some balance of simplicity  
> > and
> > > > quality.
> > > > I do not think I want to get into filling my own cartridges or
> > > > building my own
> > > > profiles; and I do not have a densitometer. I see the Epson 1400
> > > > highly
> > > > spoken of in some of the threads, and given its surprising low  
> > cost,
> > > > I would
> > > > consider switching to it if the consensus is that it's worth it.
> > > >
> >
> 
> Leslie Otterbein
> 
> web.me.com/lotterbein
> http://gallery.me.com/lotterbein#
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> 
> Really, can metamerism be a characteristic of a printer (the hardware),
> as opposed to the driver and/or the inks ?   That is discouraging indeed.
> 
> I hate to be dense, but what does "XP" refer to ?   The Windows OS ?
> The Ilford chromagenic film ?
> 
> John
>

> I have always been under the impression that it was the pigment inks that were prone to meteramism. Some papers were worse than others and Epson did produce several versions of their 2000P driver to try and combat the problem.
> 
> I did not think the carbon inksets were prone to meteramism, or not as badly as the pigment colour inks.
> 
> Which leads me to ask, What sort of black and white printing were you planning on doing? Were you thinking about the quadtone black and it variants or were you going to adopt the colour inks and mixing down to grey approach.
> 
> MIS have the UT7 inkset that is quite versatile. Paul Roark has a writeup on its use on his website. A couple of plusses for that inkset are that you can use the Epson printer driver, and you can purchase cartriges prefilled with the UT7 inks.
> 
> Cheers
> Greg Nixon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jge@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Really, can metamerism be a characteristic of a printer (the hardware),
> > as opposed to the driver and/or the inks ?   That is discouraging indeed.
> > 
> > I hate to be dense, but what does "XP" refer to ?   The Windows OS ?
> > The Ilford chromagenic film ?
> > 
> > John
> >
>

> I am not aware of any ink set that can provide low metamerism inks via the OEM driver, which mixes all light grays from full saturation colors, but it might be possible, if those full colors are replaced with low saturation replacements. I was under the impression that Joe Holmes Small Gamut Ink patent eliminated that possibility for other inksets. But perhaps if they don't offer a full range of tonality, it could be possible.   Similarly, I am not aware of a driver that could do that with OEM inks, without suffering the same graininess that the later 2000 OEM driver suffered, due to blending light grays from black dots. In the case if the 2200, the dots would have been less obvious from the dark gray ink that was available. But until the 2400 provided a second gray the problem would remain. 
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Imaging Color Solutions
> Datacolor inc. 
> cdtobie@...
> www.datacolor.com
> 
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 8:40 PM, "John" <jge@...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > However, using third party inks and a third party driver can produce low metamerism prints on the 2200, even though OEM components cannot. 
> > 
> > David, not nitpicking, but rather seeking to understand, is it
> > not true that the word "and" in your sentence should be replaced
> > by "or" ? In other words, the OEM Ultrachrome inks with the QTR
> > driver, *OR* the UT7 carts with the Epson driver, either will
> > produce low-metamerism prints ? But likely using both non-OEM
> > components will do better ?
> > 
> > Thanks, John
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> 
> Now I'm confused, David.   The information on the UT7 set says that it
> works well with the Epson driver:
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/ut7_2200.cfm
> 
> Similarly, other respondents to my inquiry say that the QTR driver does
> a pretty good job with the OEM inks.
> 
> What am I missing ?
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > I am not aware of any ink set that can provide low metamerism inks via the OEM driver, which mixes all light grays from full saturation colors, but it might be possible, if those full colors are replaced with low saturation replacements. I was under the impression that Joe Holmes Small Gamut Ink patent eliminated that possibility for other inksets. But perhaps if they don't offer a full range of tonality, it could be possible.   Similarly, I am not aware of a driver that could do that with OEM inks, without suffering the same graininess that the later 2000 OEM driver suffered, due to blending light grays from black dots. In the case if the 2200, the dots would have been less obvious from the dark gray ink that was available. But until the 2400 provided a second gray the problem would remain. 
> > 
> > C. David Tobie
> > Global Product Technology Manager
> > Imaging Color Solutions
> > Datacolor inc. 
> > cdtobie@
> > www.datacolor.com
> > 
> > On Sep 12, 2011, at 8:40 PM, "John" <jge@> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > > However, using third party inks and a third party driver can produce low metamerism prints on the 2200, even though OEM components cannot. 
> > > 
> > > David, not nitpicking, but rather seeking to understand, is it
> > > not true that the word "and" in your sentence should be replaced
> > > by "or" ? In other words, the OEM Ultrachrome inks with the QTR
> > > driver, *OR* the UT7 carts with the Epson driver, either will
> > > produce low-metamerism prints ? But likely using both non-OEM
> > > components will do better ?
> > > 
> > > Thanks, John
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

>
> 
> Now I'm confused, David.   The information on the UT7 set says that it
> works well with the Epson driver:
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/ut7_2200.cfm
> 
> Similarly, other respondents to my inquiry say that the QTR driver does
> a pretty good job with the OEM inks.
> 
> What am I missing ?
> 
> John
> 
>

>
> 
> 
> 
> David: Thanks for the further clarification on meteramism.
> 
> John: I can understand your confusion, I had to do a lot of reading on Roark's website and MIS's website to get a handle on what the terminology means. Perhaps, although new to this, I may be able to help.
> 
> Briefly and simplisticly.
> 
> Producing a high quality monochrome image from a black only or a colour printer is not as easy as one would imagine.
> Producing grey from black is done by using lots of small black dots. This method is called dithering and is not really what you would call high quality monochrome.
> Producing grey from colour is done by mixing down inks from all colours to produce grey. This method can leave slight colour casts in the grey image.
> 
> A better approach is to use black and several shades of grey. MIS and others use a carbon based inkset. Carbon overcomes the problems with both dye and pigment based blacks. A RIP is required to control the mixing of the grey inks to produce a smooth tonal range.
> 
> Here is where it's easy to become confused with the terminology. Although the inks are all grey inks, they are placed in the printer in positions that were occupied by colour inks. Now it is possible to have inks labelled as cyan or magenta or yellow, but are in fact different shades of grey that are fitted into the cyan, magenta and yellow position in the printer. It is possible to be left wondering whether you are reading about the colour cyan ink or the 30% grey ink used in the cyan position of the printer.
> 
> In general when reading about Quadtone or Hextone inksets, the colour teminology refers to the shade of gray ink that is fitted into that colour position in the printer.
> for example using UTFS quad inkset, the colour positions in the printer are occupied as follows:
> Cyan by 30% grey ink
> Magenta by 18% grey ink
> Yellow by 2%  grey ink.
> 
> Now for the next confusing bit. Although the mixing of quadtone and hextone grey shades in the printer are normally controlled by a RIP, it is possible to use the Epson printer driver to control the ink mixing. After all, in normal use the Epson driver controls the colour mixing, so there is no reason why it cannot be used to control the grey inks fitted in those colour positions. Very often a Photoshop adjustment curve is also reqired to achieve a smooth tone from light to dark. Its important here also, to remember that any reference to a colour is actually a reference to the shade of grey that occupies that position in the printer. Using the Epson driver does not mean that there are any colour inks fitted to the printer.
> 
> But wait, there is more to learn.
> There is another level of black inksets called "variable tone". These are also black inksets but some of the colour positions have grey inks with "toners" added to them. The toners can change the the greys from a cold grey up to a sepia print. Once again a RIP is the normal way to control the print, but the Epson driver can also be used here. The driver's "colour slider" controls are used, but they are used to control the grey smoothness and the grey tone, by controlling the grey ink or grey toner fitted in colour positions. There are no colour inks here either.
> 
> Now to the QTR used to control OEM inks.
> These are colour inks. They are the Epson pigment inks as originally fitted to the printer. This is the "producing grey from colour" method by using the RIP to control the ratios of colour inks that will mix down to black without colour casts, right through from black to light grey.
> As these inks are colour pigment inks they will be affected by metamerism. The output is grey, but the grey contains near equal amount of all colours.
> 
> The method of using OEM colour inks to produce grey is in no way similar to, or to be confused with the fixed or variable tone black inksets, like UTFS UT2, UT14 etc. The two methods are totally different, regardless of whether the ink mixing is controlled by a RIP or the Epson driver.
> 
> John: In your last post you mentioned controlling OEM inks with a RIP and controlling UT7 with the Epson driver. You must not confuse the UT7 black inkset with the OEM colour inkset. they can both be controlled by common drivers, but they are completely different inksets and methods.
> 
> I hope this has cleared things up a bit for you and anyone else new to the technology.
> 
> I apologise to those who think they are being taught to "suck eggs".
> 
> Paul Roark's website is a mine of information on printing with black inksets. Choose your printer, choose your inkset and then read about the workflow on Pauls site. He has also put together a comprehensive library of Photoshop curves and ICC profiles covering almost any combination of printer inkset and paper.
> 
> Cheers
> Greg Nixon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johngeyles" <jge@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Now I'm confused, David.   The information on the UT7 set says that it
> > works well with the Epson driver:
> > 
> > http://www.inksupply.com/ut7_2200.cfm
> > 
> > Similarly, other respondents to my inquiry say that the QTR driver does
> > a pretty good job with the OEM inks.
> > 
> > What am I missing ?
> > 
> > John
> > 
> >
>

>
> 
> Greg, thanks much for taking the time to explain in such detail.
> I think I understand the business about the various types of
> inksets.    I THINK
> you are agreeing with my previous impression that the OEM Epson
> driver does quite nicely with a carbon inkset like UT7, and that QTR
> does a half-decent job with the OEM inks - even though, as you point
> out, the approaches are very different.
> 
> So even though I kinda understand, I'm still bewildered by all these
> choices, and want someone to tell me what to do :-)     But I think I
> know the answer: buy a set of UT7 inks, and then start messing
> with the Epson and QTR drivers.
> 
> Certainly it'd be simpler to just use QTR with the OEM UltraChrome,
> and it would allow me to keep printing color on the same machine
> without having to swap out cartridge sets (which I gather is problematic,
> requiring a bit of flushing).
> 
> OTOH, it sounds like the carbon inkset really is worth it.   It sounds like
> the QTR does a better job with the OEM UltraChrome than does the
> Epson driver.   But, as you point out, it's still mixing colored inks to
> get greys.
> 
> Thanks again, John
> 
>

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gregnixon@> wrote:
> ...
> > I think what David was saying in his post about this, is that if you use OEM inks (colour pigment inks), then regardless of the driver, it is hard to avoid metamerism....
> 
> that is not the case. In fact the only way to minimize metamerism failure with desktop Epsons to the lowest possible degree is with a RIP or special driver. Then the black inks can be used for entirety of the tonal scale and color inks in small amounts then brought in to correct hue. The metamerism failure differences side by side between the EOM driver and QTR driver with a printer like the 2200 will be striking, even if under one light source they are nearly identical.
> 
> He describes the situation correctly, your "either/or's" are not quite right. There are other important variables like the generation of Epson/driver and how many light black inks that alter the outcome of simple OEM vs QTR comparisons and the trade-offs involved.
> 
> Bottom line for your 2200, if you keep your OEM inks, QTR will help your B&W output considerably. 
> 
> Tyler
>

> I've had an Epson 2200 for awhile for color printing. I would like to get into
> B&W printing.   Trying to read through the archives here, I am a bit overwhelmed
> with the choices; UT7, UT2, Eboni-6, etc.  Not to mention the variety of driver:
> Epson's, QTR, OPM.
> 
> So I'd like suggestions as to the best way for me to proceed towards getting
> good quality B&W prints.   I would like some balance of simplicity and quality.
> I do not think I want to get into filling my own cartridges or building my own
> profiles; and I do not have a densitometer.  I see the Epson 1400 highly
> spoken of in some of the threads, and given its surprising low cost, I would
> consider switching to it if the consensus is that it's worth it.

> Metamerism is caused by color inks.  The less the better.  With the OEM inkset qtr is the best way to limit color inks.  With ut7 it does not make much difference, as long as you use the curves with the ut7 inkset.
> 
> Paul
> Www.paulroark.com
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johngeyles" <jge@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Now I'm confused, David.   The information on the UT7 set says that it
> > works well with the Epson driver:
> > 
> > http://www.inksupply.com/ut7_2200.cfm
> > 
> > Similarly, other respondents to my inquiry say that the QTR driver does
> > a pretty good job with the OEM inks.
> > 
> > What am I missing ?
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > > I am not aware of any ink set that can provide low metamerism inks via the OEM driver, which mixes all light grays from full saturation colors, but it might be possible, if those full colors are replaced with low saturation replacements. I was under the impression that Joe Holmes Small Gamut Ink patent eliminated that possibility for other inksets. But perhaps if they don't offer a full range of tonality, it could be possible.   Similarly, I am not aware of a driver that could do that with OEM inks, without suffering the same graininess that the later 2000 OEM driver suffered, due to blending light grays from black dots. In the case if the 2200, the dots would have been less obvious from the dark gray ink that was available. But until the 2400 provided a second gray the problem would remain. 
> > > 
> > > C. David Tobie
> > > Global Product Technology Manager
> > > Imaging Color Solutions
> > > Datacolor inc. 
> > > cdtobie@
> > > www.datacolor.com
> > > 
> > > On Sep 12, 2011, at 8:40 PM, "John" <jge@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > However, using third party inks and a third party driver can produce low metamerism prints on the 2200, even though OEM components cannot. 
> > > > 
> > > > David, not nitpicking, but rather seeking to understand, is it
> > > > not true that the word "and" in your sentence should be replaced
> > > > by "or" ? In other words, the OEM Ultrachrome inks with the QTR
> > > > driver, *OR* the UT7 carts with the Epson driver, either will
> > > > produce low-metamerism prints ? But likely using both non-OEM
> > > > components will do better ?
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks, John
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

>
> 
> Paul,
> 
> I am trying to follow your workflow for printing with the UT7 inks on
> the 2200, at:
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/ut7_2200.cfm
> 
> Unfortunately, the two links at step "D" (Making the Print) are broken.
> 
> Thanks, John

> >
>

>
> 
> So would it be fair to propose a concise answer to my question as:
> 
> The simplest thing to do would be to acquire the QTR driver and print
> using your Epson OEM UltraChrome inks.   This has the advantage
> that you can print color without reconfiguring the printer.    Because color
> inks are blended to produce the various shades of grey, metamerism
> is a risk.   It is unacceptable with the OEM Epson driver, but significantly
> reduced, to a degree considered acceptable by many users, using QTR.
> 
> If you don't mind dedicating your 2200 to B&W work (or having to change
> out ink cartridges and flush the system when you want to print color),
> a better solution is to buy the UT7 ink set and print with either the Epson
> driver or QTR.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > I've had an Epson 2200 for awhile for color printing. I would like to get into
> > B&W printing.   Trying to read through the archives here, I am a bit overwhelmed
> > with the choices; UT7, UT2, Eboni-6, etc.  Not to mention the variety of driver:
> > Epson's, QTR, OPM.
> > 
> > So I'd like suggestions as to the best way for me to proceed towards getting
> > good quality B&W prints.   I would like some balance of simplicity and quality.
> > I do not think I want to get into filling my own cartridges or building my own
> > profiles; and I do not have a densitometer.  I see the Epson 1400 highly
> > spoken of in some of the threads, and given its surprising low cost, I would
> > consider switching to it if the consensus is that it's worth it.
>

>
> Asolutely agree John. I use the Epson UC inks as supplied with the 2100. I also use the UT2 inks in a 1290 and can't see any difference in print quality. I use 60% cool and 40% warm curves in QTR with the 2100 and the neutral tone with the 1290 to produce near identical prints. These are both printed on A3 Epson Enhanced Matte.
> 
> I will post my workflow later today. This seems to work for me although I am still learning.
> 
> Mel 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jge@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > So would it be fair to propose a concise answer to my question as:
> > 
> > The simplest thing to do would be to acquire the QTR driver and print
> > using your Epson OEM UltraChrome inks.   This has the advantage
> > that you can print color without reconfiguring the printer.    Because color
> > inks are blended to produce the various shades of grey, metamerism
> > is a risk.   It is unacceptable with the OEM Epson driver, but significantly
> > reduced, to a degree considered acceptable by many users, using QTR.
> > 
> > If you don't mind dedicating your 2200 to B&W work (or having to change
> > out ink cartridges and flush the system when you want to print color),
> > a better solution is to buy the UT7 ink set and print with either the Epson
> > driver or QTR.
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > > I've had an Epson 2200 for awhile for color printing. I would like to get into
> > > B&W printing.   Trying to read through the archives here, I am a bit overwhelmed
> > > with the choices; UT7, UT2, Eboni-6, etc.  Not to mention the variety of driver:
> > > Epson's, QTR, OPM.
> > > 
> > > So I'd like suggestions as to the best way for me to proceed towards getting
> > > good quality B&W prints.   I would like some balance of simplicity and quality.
> > > I do not think I want to get into filling my own cartridges or building my own
> > > profiles; and I do not have a densitometer.  I see the Epson 1400 highly
> > > spoken of in some of the threads, and given its surprising low cost, I would
> > > consider switching to it if the consensus is that it's worth it.
> >
>

>
> Gregory,
> 
> Where is information about the UT7 inkset and the 1400 printer?  I don't see
> it at the MIS site or or Paul Roark's site.  I must be missing something.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Gregory Fight <gfight@...>wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work
> > using the Epson driver.  I use UT-14 inks in an Epson 1400.  The work flow
> > is pretty simple and it produces very high quality, satisfying black & white
> > prints.  I believe this is also a good choice for longevity, using acid and
> > lignin-free paper without optical brighteners (Moab Entrada Rag Natural is
> > my paper of choice).  I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use
> > your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go.  If you
> > do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense.  The 1400 is
> > pretty inexpensive.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Tom, the UT7 is not for the Epson 1400; I use UT14. UT7 is one of the MIS ink sets recommended for the Epson 2200.  
> 
> On the B&W Inks page for Epson printers (http://www.inksupply.com/qn.cfm) at the MIS Web site there are tables that list the printers and the recommended BW inks.  Click on the box that shows the ink set for more info.  Hope this helps.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <tom.husband@> wrote:
> >
> > Gregory,
> > 
> > Where is information about the UT7 inkset and the 1400 printer?  I don't see
> > it at the MIS site or or Paul Roark's site.  I must be missing something.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Gregory Fight <gfight@>wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work
> > > using the Epson driver.  I use UT-14 inks in an Epson 1400.  The work flow
> > > is pretty simple and it produces very high quality, satisfying black & white
> > > prints.  I believe this is also a good choice for longevity, using acid and
> > > lignin-free paper without optical brighteners (Moab Entrada Rag Natural is
> > > my paper of choice).  I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use
> > > your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go.  If you
> > > do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense.  The 1400 is
> > > pretty inexpensive.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

>
> Do you have any curves for QTR and the Epson 1400 that don't use Black Only i.e. to vary the tone, as the only ones supplied with QTR are BO, so no way of making variable tone prints except by using different papers (you could vary the tone with the 1290 by using Curve Blending). Unless of course you are using the Epson driver with your 1400 , using paul's recommendations
> 
> Mel
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotofantom" <gfight@> wrote:
> >
> > Tom, the UT7 is not for the Epson 1400; I use UT14. UT7 is one of the MIS ink sets recommended for the Epson 2200.  
> > 
> > On the B&W Inks page for Epson printers (http://www.inksupply.com/qn.cfm) at the MIS Web site there are tables that list the printers and the recommended BW inks.  Click on the box that shows the ink set for more info.  Hope this helps.
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <tom.husband@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Gregory,
> > > 
> > > Where is information about the UT7 inkset and the 1400 printer?  I don't see
> > > it at the MIS site or or Paul Roark's site.  I must be missing something.
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Gregory Fight <gfight@>wrote:
> > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work
> > > > using the Epson driver.  I use UT-14 inks in an Epson 1400.  The work flow
> > > > is pretty simple and it produces very high quality, satisfying black & white
> > > > prints.  I believe this is also a good choice for longevity, using acid and
> > > > lignin-free paper without optical brighteners (Moab Entrada Rag Natural is
> > > > my paper of choice).  I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use
> > > > your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go.  If you
> > > > do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense.  The 1400 is
> > > > pretty inexpensive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: fotofantom 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:38 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: newbie seeks help for B&W printing with Epson 2200


    
  Mel, sorry, I can't help you. I don't use QTR (yet), as I'm very satisfied with what I'm getting with just the Epson driver and Paul's excellent curves.

  Greg F.

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@...> wrote:
  >
  > Do you have any curves for QTR and the Epson 1400 that don't use Black Only i.e. to vary the tone, as the only ones supplied with QTR are BO, so no way of making variable tone prints except by using different papers (you could vary the tone with the 1290 by using Curve Blending). Unless of course you are using the Epson driver with your 1400 , using paul's recommendations
  > 
  > Mel
  > 
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotofantom" <gfight@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Tom, the UT7 is not for the Epson 1400; I use UT14. UT7 is one of the MIS ink sets recommended for the Epson 2200. 
  > > 
  > > On the B&W Inks page for Epson printers (http://www.inksupply.com/qn.cfm) at the MIS Web site there are tables that list the printers and the recommended BW inks. Click on the box that shows the ink set for more info. Hope this helps.
  > > 
  > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <tom.husband@> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Gregory,
  > > > 
  > > > Where is information about the UT7 inkset and the 1400 printer? I don't see
  > > > it at the MIS site or or Paul Roark's site. I must be missing something.
  > > > 
  > > > Thanks
  > > > 
  > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Gregory Fight <gfight@>wrote:
  > > > 
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work
  > > > > using the Epson driver. I use UT-14 inks in an Epson 1400. The work flow
  > > > > is pretty simple and it produces very high quality, satisfying black & white
  > > > > prints. I believe this is also a good choice for longevity, using acid and
  > > > > lignin-free paper without optical brighteners (Moab Entrada Rag Natural is
  > > > > my paper of choice). I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use
  > > > > your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go. If you
  > > > > do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense. The 1400 is
  > > > > pretty inexpensive.
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > 
  > > > 
  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > >
  > >
  >



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> I do remember someone who had made some profiles for use in QTR wth the UT14 inks..Do a search in the group for UT-14 profiles..I think the guys last name was "Golden"??..Problem is, I couldn't get them to install on my computer..
> 
> Eddie
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: fotofantom 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:38 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: newbie seeks help for B&W printing with Epson 2200
> 
> 
>     
>   Mel, sorry, I can't help you. I don't use QTR (yet), as I'm very satisfied with what I'm getting with just the Epson driver and Paul's excellent curves.
> 
>   Greg F.
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Do you have any curves for QTR and the Epson 1400 that don't use Black Only i.e. to vary the tone, as the only ones supplied with QTR are BO, so no way of making variable tone prints except by using different papers (you could vary the tone with the 1290 by using Curve Blending). Unless of course you are using the Epson driver with your 1400 , using paul's recommendations
>   > 
>   > Mel
>   > 
>   > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotofantom" <gfight@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Tom, the UT7 is not for the Epson 1400; I use UT14. UT7 is one of the MIS ink sets recommended for the Epson 2200. 
>   > > 
>   > > On the B&W Inks page for Epson printers (http://www.inksupply.com/qn.cfm) at the MIS Web site there are tables that list the printers and the recommended BW inks. Click on the box that shows the ink set for more info. Hope this helps.
>   > > 
>   > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <tom.husband@> wrote:
>   > > >
>   > > > Gregory,
>   > > > 
>   > > > Where is information about the UT7 inkset and the 1400 printer? I don't see
>   > > > it at the MIS site or or Paul Roark's site. I must be missing something.
>   > > > 
>   > > > Thanks
>   > > > 
>   > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Gregory Fight <gfight@>wrote:
>   > > > 
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work
>   > > > > using the Epson driver. I use UT-14 inks in an Epson 1400. The work flow
>   > > > > is pretty simple and it produces very high quality, satisfying black & white
>   > > > > prints. I believe this is also a good choice for longevity, using acid and
>   > > > > lignin-free paper without optical brighteners (Moab Entrada Rag Natural is
>   > > > > my paper of choice). I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use
>   > > > > your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go. If you
>   > > > > do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense. The 1400 is
>   > > > > pretty inexpensive.
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > 
>   > > > 
>   > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > >
>   > >
>   >
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mel 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:18 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: newbie seeks help for B&W printing with Epson 2200


    
  Thanks Eddie, I'll do a search and thanks for your answer Greg, if I can't find "Golden" I'll try Paul's curves for the Epson driver.

  I'm awaiting the ink at the moment from Inksupply so can't start yet.

  Mel

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edward wiseman" <pahts@...> wrote:
  >
  > I do remember someone who had made some profiles for use in QTR wth the UT14 inks..Do a search in the group for UT-14 profiles..I think the guys last name was "Golden"??..Problem is, I couldn't get them to install on my computer..
  > 
  > Eddie
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: fotofantom 
  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:38 AM
  > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: newbie seeks help for B&W printing with Epson 2200
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Mel, sorry, I can't help you. I don't use QTR (yet), as I'm very satisfied with what I'm getting with just the Epson driver and Paul's excellent curves.
  > 
  > Greg F.
  > 
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Do you have any curves for QTR and the Epson 1400 that don't use Black Only i.e. to vary the tone, as the only ones supplied with QTR are BO, so no way of making variable tone prints except by using different papers (you could vary the tone with the 1290 by using Curve Blending). Unless of course you are using the Epson driver with your 1400 , using paul's recommendations
  > > 
  > > Mel
  > > 
  > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotofantom" <gfight@> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Tom, the UT7 is not for the Epson 1400; I use UT14. UT7 is one of the MIS ink sets recommended for the Epson 2200. 
  > > > 
  > > > On the B&W Inks page for Epson printers (http://www.inksupply.com/qn.cfm) at the MIS Web site there are tables that list the printers and the recommended BW inks. Click on the box that shows the ink set for more info. Hope this helps.
  > > > 
  > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <tom.husband@> wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > > Gregory,
  > > > > 
  > > > > Where is information about the UT7 inkset and the 1400 printer? I don't see
  > > > > it at the MIS site or or Paul Roark's site. I must be missing something.
  > > > > 
  > > > > Thanks
  > > > > 
  > > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Gregory Fight <gfight@>wrote:
  > > > > 
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work
  > > > > > using the Epson driver. I use UT-14 inks in an Epson 1400. The work flow
  > > > > > is pretty simple and it produces very high quality, satisfying black & white
  > > > > > prints. I believe this is also a good choice for longevity, using acid and
  > > > > > lignin-free paper without optical brighteners (Moab Entrada Rag Natural is
  > > > > > my paper of choice). I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use
  > > > > > your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go. If you
  > > > > > do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense. The 1400 is
  > > > > > pretty inexpensive.
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > 
  > > > > 
  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > > >
  > > >
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> I think I found his post on QTR..I believe it's David Goldenberg..I think his QTR profiles were made for a "MAC" only..
> 
> Eddie
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Mel 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:18 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: newbie seeks help for B&W printing with Epson 2200
> 
> 
>     
>   Thanks Eddie, I'll do a search and thanks for your answer Greg, if I can't find "Golden" I'll try Paul's curves for the Epson driver.
> 
>   I'm awaiting the ink at the moment from Inksupply so can't start yet.
> 
>   Mel
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edward wiseman" <pahts@> wrote:
>   >
>   > I do remember someone who had made some profiles for use in QTR wth the UT14 inks..Do a search in the group for UT-14 profiles..I think the guys last name was "Golden"??..Problem is, I couldn't get them to install on my computer..
>   > 
>   > Eddie
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: fotofantom 
>   > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:38 AM
>   > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: newbie seeks help for B&W printing with Epson 2200
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Mel, sorry, I can't help you. I don't use QTR (yet), as I'm very satisfied with what I'm getting with just the Epson driver and Paul's excellent curves.
>   > 
>   > Greg F.
>   > 
>   > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Do you have any curves for QTR and the Epson 1400 that don't use Black Only i.e. to vary the tone, as the only ones supplied with QTR are BO, so no way of making variable tone prints except by using different papers (you could vary the tone with the 1290 by using Curve Blending). Unless of course you are using the Epson driver with your 1400 , using paul's recommendations
>   > > 
>   > > Mel
>   > > 
>   > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotofantom" <gfight@> wrote:
>   > > >
>   > > > Tom, the UT7 is not for the Epson 1400; I use UT14. UT7 is one of the MIS ink sets recommended for the Epson 2200. 
>   > > > 
>   > > > On the B&W Inks page for Epson printers (http://www.inksupply.com/qn.cfm) at the MIS Web site there are tables that list the printers and the recommended BW inks. Click on the box that shows the ink set for more info. Hope this helps.
>   > > > 
>   > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <tom.husband@> wrote:
>   > > > >
>   > > > > Gregory,
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > Where is information about the UT7 inkset and the 1400 printer? I don't see
>   > > > > it at the MIS site or or Paul Roark's site. I must be missing something.
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > Thanks
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Gregory Fight <gfight@>wrote:
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work
>   > > > > > using the Epson driver. I use UT-14 inks in an Epson 1400. The work flow
>   > > > > > is pretty simple and it produces very high quality, satisfying black & white
>   > > > > > prints. I believe this is also a good choice for longevity, using acid and
>   > > > > > lignin-free paper without optical brighteners (Moab Entrada Rag Natural is
>   > > > > > my paper of choice). I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use
>   > > > > > your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go. If you
>   > > > > > do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense. The 1400 is
>   > > > > > pretty inexpensive.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > > >
>   > > >
>   > >
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> 
> > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work using the Epson driver. ....  I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go.  If you do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense.  The 1400 is pretty inexpensive.
> 
> Yeah, one of these two options seems to be the way to go.  As cheap as the
> printers are getting (e.g the Epson 1400), at least in comparison to the cost
> of ink, it's real tempting to go with a 1400 as dedicated B&W and keep my
> 2200 for color.   But I don't really have the space and it seems slightly
> silly unless I get way more committed.
> 
> So, the question becomes, is the superiority of UT7 (with either Epson or QTR),
> as opposed to QTR w/ UltraChrome, sufficient to justify the hassle of changing
> cartridge sets when I want to switch between color and B&W ?   I don't think
> I'd be switching very often, but still, if the difference is barely perceptible (between
> UT7 and UltraChrome), why bother ?   The interest here in exploring these UT inks
> seems to suggest that it's NOT "barely perceptible", although some respondents
> to my question seem to be hinting that it is.
> 
> John
>

> Even if the difference is perceptible, that doesn't mean one method is "better" than the other.  It ultimately comes down to what meets your needs.  Why don't you start by printing BW with the Epson driver and the Ultrachrome inks?  See if the results are satisfactory to you. You can add QTR to the workflow and see if that improves either the process or the final product.  Then, when you've got the process down, try the UT-7 inks and compare.  (BTW, I don't have room for two printers either, but I have them anyway, and I'm pleased with the results.)
> 
> Good luck!  :-)
> 
> Greg F.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jge@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > John, my recommendation would be to get the UT-7 ink set and go to work using the Epson driver. ....  I haven't tried QTR, but if you are planning to use your 2200 for both BW and color printing, that may be the way to go.  If you do a lot of printing, a dedicated BW printer makes sense.  The 1400 is pretty inexpensive.
> > 
> > Yeah, one of these two options seems to be the way to go.  As cheap as the
> > printers are getting (e.g the Epson 1400), at least in comparison to the cost
> > of ink, it's real tempting to go with a 1400 as dedicated B&W and keep my
> > 2200 for color.   But I don't really have the space and it seems slightly
> > silly unless I get way more committed.
> > 
> > So, the question becomes, is the superiority of UT7 (with either Epson or QTR),
> > as opposed to QTR w/ UltraChrome, sufficient to justify the hassle of changing
> > cartridge sets when I want to switch between color and B&W ?   I don't think
> > I'd be switching very often, but still, if the difference is barely perceptible (between
> > UT7 and UltraChrome), why bother ?   The interest here in exploring these UT inks
> > seems to suggest that it's NOT "barely perceptible", although some respondents
> > to my question seem to be hinting that it is.
> > 
> > John
> >
>