Digital BW, The Print

With Profilemaker and its components not supported under Lion, is there another accessible program to replace MeasureTool?

On 02/10/2012 10:58 PM, steve5773 wrote:
> With Profilemaker and its components not supported under Lion, is there
> another accessible program to replace MeasureTool?
>

ArgyllCMS has a spotread utility but there is more in this thread:
http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/FW-Profiling-Epson-ABW-Print-Driver

Be aware that there could be issues with QTR and recent Mac OSses + 
Adobe apps + Epson drivers for target printing. Alan Goldhammer mentions 
that in another thread on the LL forum. Adobe has a separate application 
for target printing.



-- 
met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Shareware too:
330+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

Hi Ernst

For colour target printing I am currently printing from EyeOne Match.

I am looking to run QTR Create ICC for an Advanced B&W randomised greyscale wedge.  (I am having all sorts of problems with CS5 not allowing me to access print settings once I have saved them for any one file but that's a different story.) I have the step wedge printed. If there are issues with this workflow I'd like to be forewarned - perhaps I should just use CS3 but I thought CS5, OS-X and Epson now played ball nicely.

1. Open unprofiled target tiff and leave un-colourmanaged (no profile assigned)

2. Print with Printer Manages Colours (so no profile is assigned by PS) and Print Settings set in the driver dialogue window (saving these before returning to the PS window is causing the issues above). These include Color Matching = Epson Color Controls and the Adv B&W colour settings.

I downloaded Profilemaker and installed MeasureTool but note that Measuring is no longer allowed without a dongle - hence the need for some other software to read the printed chart.

On a related point, does anyone know if when one makes the upgrade from i1 Photo Pro and Match to the new (Lion supported) i1 Profiler software a tool similar to MeasureTool is part of the suite?

Regards

Steve Kale

On 11 Feb 2012, at 11:54, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> On 02/10/2012 10:58 PM, steve5773 wrote:
> > With Profilemaker and its components not supported under Lion, is there
> > another accessible program to replace MeasureTool?
> >
> 
> ArgyllCMS has a spotread utility but there is more in this thread:
> http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/FW-Profiling-Epson-ABW-Print-Driver
> 
> Be aware that there could be issues with QTR and recent Mac OSses + 
> Adobe apps + Epson drivers for target printing. Alan Goldhammer mentions 
> that in another thread on the LL forum. Adobe has a separate application 
> for target printing.
> 
> -- 
> met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> Shareware too:
> 330+ paper white spectral plots:
> http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oops, I just realised MeasureTool does appear to still work (I simply hadn't completed the device recognition phase).  Keen to understand the answer to my last question though.

On 11 Feb 2012, at 12:35, Steve Kale wrote:

> Hi Ernst
> 
> For colour target printing I am currently printing from EyeOne Match.
> 
> I am looking to run QTR Create ICC for an Advanced B&W randomised greyscale wedge.  (I am having all sorts of problems with CS5 not allowing me to access print settings once I have saved them for any one file but that's a different story.) I have the step wedge printed. If there are issues with this workflow I'd like to be forewarned - perhaps I should just use CS3 but I thought CS5, OS-X and Epson now played ball nicely.
> 
> 1. Open unprofiled target tiff and leave un-colourmanaged (no profile assigned)
> 
> 2. Print with Printer Manages Colours (so no profile is assigned by PS) and Print Settings set in the driver dialogue window (saving these before returning to the PS window is causing the issues above). These include Color Matching = Epson Color Controls and the Adv B&W colour settings.
> 
> I downloaded Profilemaker and installed MeasureTool but note that Measuring is no longer allowed without a dongle - hence the need for some other software to read the printed chart.
> 
> On a related point, does anyone know if when one makes the upgrade from i1 Photo Pro and Match to the new (Lion supported) i1 Profiler software a tool similar to MeasureTool is part of the suite?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve Kale
> 
> On 11 Feb 2012, at 11:54, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> 
>> On 02/10/2012 10:58 PM, steve5773 wrote:
>>> With Profilemaker and its components not supported under Lion, is there
>>> another accessible program to replace MeasureTool?
>>> 
>> 
>> ArgyllCMS has a spotread utility but there is more in this thread:
>> http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/FW-Profiling-Epson-ABW-Print-Driver
>> 
>> Be aware that there could be issues with QTR and recent Mac OSses + 
>> Adobe apps + Epson drivers for target printing. Alan Goldhammer mentions 
>> that in another thread on the LL forum. Adobe has a separate application 
>> for target printing.
>> 
>> -- 
>> met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
>> Shareware too:
>> 330+ paper white spectral plots:
>> http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
>> 
> 
>

On 02/11/2012 02:02 PM, Steve Kale wrote:
> Oops, I just realised MeasureTool does appear to still work (I simply
> hadn't completed the device recognition phase). Keen to understand the
> answer to my last question though.


CM on Macs is something I no longer try to understand. It works on my 
Windows systems and I rather get the knowledge how it ought to work on 
Ubuntu and fantasize how it could work on Android.

ArgyllCMS is a better promise for compatibility on more OS systems, old 
and new, and it keeps old and new hardware compatible. X-Rite's 
i1Profiler surprised many customers by its lack of features compared to 
the old software and by its increased number of restrictions in the 
license including increased restrictions on the use of the old software 
.........?

Best threads on the iPublisher issues in the Luminous Landscape Color 
Management forum and the Colorsync list.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Shareware now:
Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.htm

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Thanks

BTW I found it difficult to read the Step-51-random tif file with my EyeOne and so I generated with Colorlab a new version of the chart with gaps. MeasureTool reads this more easily for some reason.  If anyone wants it, they can download it here:

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D6327763_0149166_39550

 
On 11 Feb 2012, at 13:43, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> On 02/11/2012 02:02 PM, Steve Kale wrote:
> > Oops, I just realised MeasureTool does appear to still work (I simply
> > hadn't completed the device recognition phase). Keen to understand the
> > answer to my last question though.
> 
> CM on Macs is something I no longer try to understand. It works on my 
> Windows systems and I rather get the knowledge how it ought to work on 
> Ubuntu and fantasize how it could work on Android.
> 
> ArgyllCMS is a better promise for compatibility on more OS systems, old 
> and new, and it keeps old and new hardware compatible. X-Rite's 
> i1Profiler surprised many customers by its lack of features compared to 
> the old software and by its increased number of restrictions in the 
> license including increased restrictions on the use of the old software 
> .........?
> 
> Best threads on the iPublisher issues in the Luminous Landscape Color 
> Management forum and the Colorsync list.
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> 
> Shareware now:
> Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
> 
> http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.htm
> 
> | Dinkla Grafische Techniek |
> | www.pigment-print.com |
> | ( unvollendet ) |
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I use Q Print RGB from Qualux and think it is just great.  Not sure for your situation though.  J Vee

On Feb 11, 2012, at 6:35 AM, Steve Kale wrote:

> Hi Ernst
> 
> For colour target printing I am currently printing from EyeOne Match.
> 
> I am looking to run QTR Create ICC for an Advanced B&W randomised greyscale wedge.  (I am having all sorts of problems with CS5 not allowing me to access print settings once I have saved them for any one file but that's a different story.) I have the step wedge printed. If there are issues with this workflow I'd like to be forewarned - perhaps I should just use CS3 but I thought CS5, OS-X and Epson now played ball nicely.
> 
> 1. Open unprofiled target tiff and leave un-colourmanaged (no profile assigned)
> 
> 2. Print with Printer Manages Colours (so no profile is assigned by PS) and Print Settings set in the driver dialogue window (saving these before returning to the PS window is causing the issues above). These include Color Matching = Epson Color Controls and the Adv B&W colour settings.
> 
> I downloaded Profilemaker and installed MeasureTool but note that Measuring is no longer allowed without a dongle - hence the need for some other software to read the printed chart.
> 
> On a related point, does anyone know if when one makes the upgrade from i1 Photo Pro and Match to the new (Lion supported) i1 Profiler software a tool similar to MeasureTool is part of the suite?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve Kale
> 
> On 11 Feb 2012, at 11:54, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> 
>> On 02/10/2012 10:58 PM, steve5773 wrote:
>>> With Profilemaker and its components not supported under Lion, is there
>>> another accessible program to replace MeasureTool?
>>> 
>> 
>> ArgyllCMS has a spotread utility but there is more in this thread:
>> http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/FW-Profiling-Epson-ABW-Print-Driver
>> 
>> Be aware that there could be issues with QTR and recent Mac OSses + 
>> Adobe apps + Epson drivers for target printing. Alan Goldhammer mentions 
>> that in another thread on the LL forum. Adobe has a separate application 
>> for target printing.
>> 
>> -- 
>> met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
>> Shareware too:
>> 330+ paper white spectral plots:
>> http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
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I took this up with Alan in another thread over on LuLa. Unfortunately the discussion in the thread you briefly participated in was far from complete and had many unhelpful tangential posts tossed into the mix. The arguments that ABW was never intended to be colour managed and it is a "black box" were most unhelpful. As were the references to "it's the OS" and colour printing workflows. Your post should have set the discussion on a more reasonable path but no one took you up on your suggestion and things weren't explored further. Removing the ability to print targets without colour management is rather stupid, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with OS-X enforcing a situation where if PS Manages Colors then colour controls in the driver are unavailable and vice versa. This would remove a great deal of confusion for many people not familiar with the vagaries of colour management. It's just a little annoying for people who do get CM and want to use a mixture of both PS and the driver doing colour management.

There do appear to be issues with QTR, ABW and OS-X (at least with 10.6.8) but they appear to be surmountable. I exchanged messages with Roy on this and he was, as ever, extremely helpful (and patient as I refreshed my memory on some of this stuff that I've been away from for awhile).  He commented that, at least with QTR,  OS-X always converts a greyscale image to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2. I decided to run a few tests with ABW. At least if PS is set to Printer Manages Colors (as this is what I was testing) OS-X 10.6.8 converts a greyscale file (whether tagged or not) to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile before it gets to Epson ABW as well. I printed an untagged step wedge, a step wedge converted to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile, a step wedge converted to Gray Gamma 1.8 and a step wedge assigned with Generic Gray Gamma 2.2.  The first 3 produced an almost identical L* ramp from the printer (similar enough for the variance to just be paper, ink drying etc). The last step wedge had a much different profile (and a more linear L* ramp suggesting no colour management adjustments). 

If the above is correct then when printing targets for QTR Create ICC profiling we would, I believe, need to assign Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 to the target before printing (Printer Manages Colors and your preferred ABW/QTR settings).  That way K values sent to the printer aren't altered. When printing an image with the resultant QTR ICC profile, we would need to convert the image to this profile and then assign Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 before printing with Printer Manages Colors and the ABW/QTR settings relevant to the selected QTR ICC profile.

It would be great if someone else using OS-X and ABW could confirm the results of the tests I did - and also if someone using 10.7.x could do the same.




On 11 Feb 2012, at 11:54, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> On 02/10/2012 10:58 PM, steve5773 wrote:
> > With Profilemaker and its components not supported under Lion, is there
> > another accessible program to replace MeasureTool?
> >
> 
> ArgyllCMS has a spotread utility but there is more in this thread:
> http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/FW-Profiling-Epson-ABW-Print-Driver
> 
> Be aware that there could be issues with QTR and recent Mac OSses + 
> Adobe apps + Epson drivers for target printing. Alan Goldhammer mentions 
> that in another thread on the LL forum. Adobe has a separate application 
> for target printing.
> 
> -- 
> met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> Shareware too:
> 330+ paper white spectral plots:
> http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re a replacement for MeasureTool

http://www.on-sight.com/2012/02/22/using-colorport-for-qtr-grayscale-and-alt-process-measurement-and-profiling/

It would be good if the community berated Apple on this stuff

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

On 2 Mar 2012, at 10:55, Steve Kale wrote:

> 
> There do appear to be issues with QTR, ABW and OS-X (at least with 10.6.8) but they appear to be surmountable. I exchanged messages with Roy on this and he was, as ever, extremely helpful (and patient as I refreshed my memory on some of this stuff that I've been away from for awhile). He commented that, at least with QTR, OS-X always converts a greyscale image to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2. I decided to run a few tests with ABW. At least if PS is set to Printer Manages Colors (as this is what I was testing) OS-X 10.6.8 converts a greyscale file (whether tagged or not) to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile before it gets to Epson ABW as well. I printed an untagged step wedge, a step wedge converted to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile, a step wedge converted to Gray Gamma 1.8 and a step wedge assigned with Generic Gray Gamma 2.2. The first 3 produced an almost identical L* ramp from the printer (similar enough for the variance to just be paper, ink drying etc). The last step wedge had a much different profile (and a more linear L* ramp suggesting no colour management adjustments). 
> 
> If the above is correct then when printing targets for QTR Create ICC profiling we would, I believe, need to assign Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 to the target before printing (Printer Manages Colors and your preferred ABW/QTR settings). That way K values sent to the printer aren't altered. When printing an image with the resultant QTR ICC profile, we would need to convert the image to this profile and then assign Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 before printing with Printer Manages Colors and the ABW/QTR settings relevant to the selected QTR ICC profile.
> 
> It would be great if someone else using OS-X and ABW could confirm the results of the tests I did - and also if someone using 10.7.x could do the same.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 03/07/2012 10:21 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> It would be good if the community berated Apple on this stuff
>
> http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html
>
> On 2 Mar 2012, at 10:55, Steve Kale wrote:
>
>  >
>  > There do appear to be issues with QTR, ABW and OS-X (at least with
> 10.6.8) but they appear to be surmountable. I exchanged messages with
> Roy on this and he was, as ever, extremely helpful (and patient as I
> refreshed my memory on some of this stuff that I've been away from for
> awhile). He commented that, at least with QTR, OS-X always converts a
> greyscale image to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2. I decided to run a few tests
> with ABW. At least if PS is set to Printer Manages Colors (as this is
> what I was testing) OS-X 10.6.8 converts a greyscale file (whether
> tagged or not) to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile before it gets to Epson
> ABW as well. I printed an untagged step wedge, a step wedge converted to
> Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile, a step wedge converted to Gray Gamma 1.8
> and a step wedge assigned with Generic Gray Gamma 2.2. The first 3
> produced an almost identical L* ramp from the printer (similar enough
> for the variance to just be paper, ink drying etc). The last step wedge
> had a much different profile (and a more linear L* ramp suggesting no
> colour management adjustments).


Could it be worse, OS-X Colorsync assigning an untagged target image 
with the current monitor profile?  It has that policy in Safari if I 
recall it correctly, where any sane application/browser uses sRGB as the 
colorspace to assign if an image has no tag. If so the results could 
differ between users. Many will have Gamma 2.2 as the base for monitor 
calibration-profiling. Others will have another setting or still the 
default monitor profile.


-- 
met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Shareware too:
330+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

There is an OS-X v10.6 page related to untagged images but it does not 
tell you what the default substitution is. Both sRGB and AdobeRGB are 
mentioned for manual tagging, the last is 2.2 Gamma, the first more or 
less 2.2 Gamma. For Greyscale no gamma is mentioned.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3712

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Shareware now:
Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.htm

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

That's all fine and a move to assuming a gamma of 2.2 versus 1.8 brings them more in line with common sense. An operating system needs to assume a profile when none exists in order to render an image on a display (although I agree one can debate which 2.2 gamma profile is assumed). But what OS-X appears to be doing is converting any greyscale image (I haven't looked at colour) to "Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile" (wherever that came from) even if it has an existing profile embedded. It was Roy who first mentioned this to me. When I print an image tagged (by conversion) gray gamma 1.8, gray gamma 2.2 or QTR-[custom user profile] they all print the same on Epson ABW (and this happens with QTR) because each is converted to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 by OS-X prior to printing. These are tagged files that are being converted.


On 8 Mar 2012, at 08:24, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> There is an OS-X v10.6 page related to untagged images but it does not 
> tell you what the default substitution is. Both sRGB and AdobeRGB are 
> mentioned for manual tagging, the last is 2.2 Gamma, the first more or 
> less 2.2 Gamma. For Greyscale no gamma is mentioned.
> 
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3712
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 03/08/2012 10:12 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> That's all fine and a move to assuming a gamma of 2.2 versus 1.8 brings
> them more in line with common sense. An operating system needs to assume
> a profile when none exists in order to render an image on a display
> (although I agree one can debate which 2.2 gamma profile is assumed).
> But what OS-X appears to be doing is converting any greyscale image (I
> haven't looked at colour) to "Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile" (wherever
> that came from) even if it has an existing profile embedded. It was Roy
> who first mentioned this to me. When I print an image tagged (by
> conversion) gray gamma 1.8, gray gamma 2.2 or QTR-[custom user profile]
> they all print the same on Epson ABW (and this happens with QTR) because
> each is converted to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 by OS-X prior to printing.
> These are tagged files that are being converted.

I would not like to have that done so obscure and wrong in my OS. If 
Epson, when it adapted the ABW drivers to the new OS-X, did the correct 
thing it should assume a Gamma 2.2 Greyscale or AdobeRGB Color image at 
the import side. For targets that means assigning Gamma 2.2 before using 
the ABW route. For QTR profiled printing afterwards you should then do a 
P2P conversion in Photoshop to the QTR created profile and then assign 
Gamma 2.2 to the image before printing it.


Something you can skip as it is not a solution for Macs:

I rather have everything transparent in my workflows next to default 
choices for everyday use that stay the same in time. People learn from 
trial and error if the tools are transparent. Making foolproof black 
boxes does not educate people. Fools remain fools that way. The more if 
the basics of that black box are fooling the user. The day that the 
printer does not deliver the same color they have no clue what went 
wrong and start asking questions.  In forums like this one.

In Qimage when an image is untagged, has no color space profile like a 
profile creation target has no, Qimage will assign a color space based 
on some guessing: EXIF file etc. If it does not find anything 
informative it will assign sRGB as the default if I did not change that 
to another default setting like AdobeRGB. I can also switch that module 
off in total. I can even switch off Qimage's LCMS CM totally and that 
module will then not interfere either, nor will Windows assign a color 
space instead.

You can not do that with Lightroom or Photoshop running on recent Apple 
OSses. It is a black box. So when introduced Eric Chan had to come up 
with a detour for target printing. With Colorsync becoming more dominant 
over LR and PS  and drivers even that solution did not work anymore. The 
choice of CM-Off disappeared in PS even for Windows use where the issue 
did not exist. After months Adobe delivered the Color Utility for target 
printing, not bug free though. After that it became more difficult to 
B&W profile ABW workflows at all. And an odd other bug was reported from 
Adobe on top.

In Qimage I have three main choices in CM:
CM-OFF and the image will be stripped of any assigned color space on its 
way to the driver. The driver should be set to Let application do color 
management and I can print my untagged targets without getting a color 
space assigned by application, driver or OS.

Let Printer Driver do color management and Qimage will not use its CM 
but send the image + assigned color space to the driver so the driver CM 
can act accordingly. I have to use driver CM then of course, the choices 
of supported assigned color spaces are limited to sRGB, AdobeRGB and 
Colormatch + another one. That is the normal HP "ABW" workflow path too.

Qimage CM-ON and Qimage will do the color management conversion, I have 
to set the driver to Let application control CM.

With all I can use different B&W profiling methods if needed. One that 
is similar to my suggestion above how to overcome the Mac issues, that I 
used when Qimage did not work nicely with QTR profiles but Photoshop did.

The last 5 years nothing essential changed in the CM tools in that 
system, what has changed were improvements on what already worked 
perfect. Like allowing different rendering intends or profiles per image 
of more nested images on one print page. The last nice for comparing. A 
feature that can be used too when custom B&W printers should deliver 
different color toned images on one print page.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Shareware now:
Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.htm

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

> If Epson, when it adapted the ABW drivers to the new OS-X, did the correct 
> thing it should assume a Gamma 2.2 Greyscale or AdobeRGB Color image at 
> the import side. 
> 
It should assume "Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile" or Adobe RGB, yes, but then who knows what Epson did.  Even if it didn't, so long as it is consistent and doesn't do any transformation then it can be profiled. 

> For targets that means assigning Gamma 2.2 before using 
> the ABW route. For QTR profiled printing afterwards you should then do a 
> P2P conversion in Photoshop to the QTR created profile and then assign 
> Gamma 2.2 to the image before printing it.
> 

Yes, as per previous correspondence here. Just substitute "Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile" in lieu of "Gamma 2.2" in your text to be more precise.


I think there are two things to complain to Apple about here: (1) the inability to print untagged targets and (2) the compulsory conversion of greyscale image files to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile. I doubt one will ever win (1). (2) though seems much more obscure and more like an error.  Anyway, unless the community pounds Apple Feedback we can moan all we want here and it will do nothing. 

> 
> Something you can skip as it is not a solution for Macs:
> 
> I rather have everything transparent in my workflows next to default 
> choices for everyday use that stay the same in time. People learn from 
> trial and error if the tools are transparent. Making foolproof black 
> boxes does not educate people. Fools remain fools that way. The more if 
> the basics of that black box are fooling the user. The day that the 
> printer does not deliver the same color they have no clue what went 
> wrong and start asking questions. In forums like this one.
> 
> In Qimage when an image is untagged, has no color space profile like a 
> profile creation target has no, Qimage will assign a color space based 
> on some guessing: EXIF file etc. If it does not find anything 
> informative it will assign sRGB as the default if I did not change that 
> to another default setting like AdobeRGB. I can also switch that module 
> off in total. I can even switch off Qimage's LCMS CM totally and that 
> module will then not interfere either, nor will Windows assign a color 
> space instead.
> 
> You can not do that with Lightroom or Photoshop running on recent Apple 
> OSses. It is a black box. So when introduced Eric Chan had to come up 
> with a detour for target printing. With Colorsync becoming more dominant 
> over LR and PS and drivers even that solution did not work anymore. The 
> choice of CM-Off disappeared in PS even for Windows use where the issue 
> did not exist. After months Adobe delivered the Color Utility for target 
> printing, not bug free though. After that it became more difficult to 
> B&W profile ABW workflows at all. And an odd other bug was reported from 
> Adobe on top.
> 
> In Qimage I have three main choices in CM:
> CM-OFF and the image will be stripped of any assigned color space on its 
> way to the driver. The driver should be set to Let application do color 
> management and I can print my untagged targets without getting a color 
> space assigned by application, driver or OS.
> 
> Let Printer Driver do color management and Qimage will not use its CM 
> but send the image + assigned color space to the driver so the driver CM 
> can act accordingly. I have to use driver CM then of course, the choices 
> of supported assigned color spaces are limited to sRGB, AdobeRGB and 
> Colormatch + another one. That is the normal HP "ABW" workflow path too.
> 
> Qimage CM-ON and Qimage will do the color management conversion, I have 
> to set the driver to Let application control CM.
> 
> With all I can use different B&W profiling methods if needed. One that 
> is similar to my suggestion above how to overcome the Mac issues, that I 
> used when Qimage did not work nicely with QTR profiles but Photoshop did.
> 
> The last 5 years nothing essential changed in the CM tools in that 
> system, what has changed were improvements on what already worked 
> perfect. Like allowing different rendering intends or profiles per image 
> of more nested images on one print page. The last nice for comparing. A 
> feature that can be used too when custom B&W printers should deliver 
> different color toned images on one print page.
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 03/08/2012 11:44 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
>

> I think there are two things to complain to Apple about here: (1) the
> inability to print untagged targets and (2) the compulsory conversion of
> greyscale image files to Generic Gray Gamma 2.2 Profile. I doubt one
> will ever win (1). (2) though seems much more obscure and more like an
> error. Anyway, unless the community pounds Apple Feedback we can moan
> all we want here and it will do nothing.

For (1) Adobe provided the Color Printer Utility, should have been 
Apple's job in a sense but it is too busy with other gadgets. Print at 
40 pixels a cm and there should be no scaling.

If your assumptions are correct (2) is yet another bug in Apple's 
Colorsync history. I think there is another route for complaints, the 
Colorsync mailing list and its moderator John Gnaegy.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Shareware now:
Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

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Coming right up...


On 8 Mar 2012, at 11:37, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> 
> 
> If your assumptions are correct (2) is yet another bug in Apple's 
> Colorsync history. I think there is another route for complaints, the 
> Colorsync mailing list and its moderator John Gnaegy.
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]