Digital BW, The Print

I need some advice from the group on a new large format printer.

I've been using a Canon iPF6100 24" printer for the last 3 or 4 years and have been pleased with it for both color and B&W work. The weak point of this printer is the head life (less than 2 years, and at $500 each, and two heads per printer, it can get expensive. At least they are user replaceable). It never clogs, but when the heads go, they GO NOW!

I want to buy a 24" (or possibly a 44") wide printer. I print much more color than B&W, so I want good gamut and Dmax. I plan to use the driver with custom color profiles, not a RIP. Ink costs are always a concern, and so are clogs. Low maintenance is HIGH on my list of priorities.

My biggest problem is that I print only occasionally, usually in spurts, and sometimes I won't use my large format printer for 1–3 months at a time. I know that's begging for maintenance and head clogging problems. I guess I could farm out my larger work, but I lose control over the printing process, quality, etc., and as good as color management tools are, I still often like to print a 2nd or 3rd print to get exactly what I really want.

I'd appreciate any printer suggestions. I am also open to other advise. 

I'd even consider a reliable used printer (workhorse) that will accept 3rd party inks. 

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

Lou Dina

Firstly, I don't own a large format printer 
Only a cannon 9500 mark 1 and a Epson 1400(recent purchase for BW work)

To find out what I need to make the purchase of the Epson, I looked around and what I'm saying below is base on that.

I read about Piezo Flush. Basically clear ink base that prevents clogging when you wish to put your printer in storage. They do sell ink bulk or ready Carts

Example link (inkjetmall.com):
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.4435/.f?sc=18&category=39435

I think the cone color ink which you can find in the site stated above have a good reputation. But i think they are on the expensive side.

For example when compared with Inkjetcart.us offerings, 1 liter bottle of similar inks,  the cone ink cost 125usd while the one and inkjetcart.us cost 95usd

In general I believe that Original ink gives the best results so far. (Other more experienced member please weight-in on this)


Epson now offers 10 color and 8 colors printers. I not sure if they make a difference. 

About outsourcing the prints, I think it might be a possible route if your area has a good printer who you can talk to and get the color exactly as you desire. I don't have that luxury here.

With some math you could find out if its cost effective.

From your experience with the cannon printer, you know how much it cost in total for the past 3 years and also should know the rough number of 24 inch prints you made. So the average cost of each print.

Similar you can find the cost of a 24 inch print you can get for at a satisfactory level. You might wish to factor in several small prints in to find if you to the right color.

cheers






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "LouisD" <lou@...> wrote:

>
> I need some advice from the group on a new large format printer.
> 
> I've been using a Canon iPF6100 24" printer for the last 3 or 4 years and have been pleased with it for both color and B&W work. The weak point of this printer is the head life (less than 2 years, and at $500 each, and two heads per printer, it can get expensive. At least they are user replaceable). It never clogs, but when the heads go, they GO NOW!
> 
> I want to buy a 24" (or possibly a 44") wide printer. I print much more color than B&W, so I want good gamut and Dmax. I plan to use the driver with custom color profiles, not a RIP. Ink costs are always a concern, and so are clogs. Low maintenance is HIGH on my list of priorities.
> 
> My biggest problem is that I print only occasionally, usually in spurts, and sometimes I won't use my large format printer for 1�3 months at a time. I know that's begging for maintenance and head clogging problems. I guess I could farm out my larger work, but I lose control over the printing process, quality, etc., and as good as color management tools are, I still often like to print a 2nd or 3rd print to get exactly what I really want.
> 
> I'd appreciate any printer suggestions. I am also open to other advise. 
> 
> I'd even consider a reliable used printer (workhorse) that will accept 3rd party inks. 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
> 
> Lou Dina
>

Our digital printing labs use the Epson 7800 - one with matte black ink and one with photo black ink (for glossy media).

The Epson ultrachrome K3 inks are fantastic and the printers are reasonably priced.  The print heads have a life span of about 5 to 10k prints, so it could last years longer than the Canon's.  Also, the Epsons do not have an internal maintenance timer, only a counter, that would force you to get unnecessary maintenance done by a certified technician.

If you ever do have to replace the print head, it's incredibly easy if you can find the manual.

The color reproduction on these printers is top notch.  Epson's profiles aren't bad, but if you're creating your own you can produce some absolutely stunning work on all types of media - our students push many types through the printers including paper, transparencies for digital negatives, and even aluminum sheets.

We have 12 epsons in our program and I can't recommend them enough for the price.

The ink catridges are about $80 each for 220ml, but you can find them online through many retailers for a few bucks less.

If you are planning on letting the printer sit for 1-3 months at a time, i'd do one of the following:

1.  weekly maintenance purge prints so that fresh inks get pushed through the lines every now and then.

or.

2.  purchase refillable cartridges through inkjet mall and also purchase a few 16oz bottles of piezoflush.  If you're feeling adventurous, you could even try putting in distilled water or windex (i take no responsibility of the last 2 suggests go awry in any way.  i've heard they work but have not tried them myself).

If you have any questions regarding the epson printers, please let me know.

Nick Enghardt
St. Edward's University
Humanities Mac Lab Coordinator and Advanced Imaging Lab Manager

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "LouisD" <lou@...> wrote:

>
> I need some advice from the group on a new large format printer.
> 
> I've been using a Canon iPF6100 24" printer for the last 3 or 4 years and have been pleased with it for both color and B&W work. The weak point of this printer is the head life (less than 2 years, and at $500 each, and two heads per printer, it can get expensive. At least they are user replaceable). It never clogs, but when the heads go, they GO NOW!
> 
> I want to buy a 24" (or possibly a 44") wide printer. I print much more color than B&W, so I want good gamut and Dmax. I plan to use the driver with custom color profiles, not a RIP. Ink costs are always a concern, and so are clogs. Low maintenance is HIGH on my list of priorities.
> 
> My biggest problem is that I print only occasionally, usually in spurts, and sometimes I won't use my large format printer for 1–3 months at a time. I know that's begging for maintenance and head clogging problems. I guess I could farm out my larger work, but I lose control over the printing process, quality, etc., and as good as color management tools are, I still often like to print a 2nd or 3rd print to get exactly what I really want.
> 
> I'd appreciate any printer suggestions. I am also open to other advise. 
> 
> I'd even consider a reliable used printer (workhorse) that will accept 3rd party inks. 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
> 
> Lou Dina
>

Been thinking about this myself.  Recent article in Digital PhotoPro:

"  The companies who have been most active in the professional printer market are Canon and Epson.  HP makes some strong contenders, and several top professionals are especially attracted to their very large models, but over the past few years, HP seems to have chosen to put more efforts into other parts areas of its business.  "

From what I have read on various forums, HP has great print quality, doesn't have the head issues of Canon or the clog issues of Epson.  They are initially somewhat more expensive, but seem to have relatively few maintenance issues.  I have read mixed evaluations of their service.  That said, if they aren't actively pursuing large format printing in the future, it could be a concern.  Check out Luminous Landscape and Northlight for some comparisons.

Good luck!


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "LouisD" <lou@...> wrote:

>
> I need some advice from the group on a new large format printer.
> 
> I've been using a Canon iPF6100 24" printer for the last 3 or 4 years and have been pleased with it for both color and B&W work. The weak point of this printer is the head life (less than 2 years, and at $500 each, and two heads per printer, it can get expensive. At least they are user replaceable). It never clogs, but when the heads go, they GO NOW!
> 
> I want to buy a 24" (or possibly a 44") wide printer. I print much more color than B&W, so I want good gamut and Dmax. I plan to use the driver with custom color profiles, not a RIP. Ink costs are always a concern, and so are clogs. Low maintenance is HIGH on my list of priorities.
> 
> My biggest problem is that I print only occasionally, usually in spurts, and sometimes I won't use my large format printer for 1–3 months at a time. I know that's begging for maintenance and head clogging problems. I guess I could farm out my larger work, but I lose control over the printing process, quality, etc., and as good as color management tools are, I still often like to print a 2nd or 3rd print to get exactly what I really want.
> 
> I'd appreciate any printer suggestions. I am also open to other advise. 
> 
> I'd even consider a reliable used printer (workhorse) that will accept 3rd party inks. 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
> 
> Lou Dina
>

As Nick pointed out in his earlier post, we've had excellent results over many years with an extensive Epson printer platform.


I would add: at K2 Press we use both Epson and HP printers. Our HP Z3100 has on-board profiling, which is a very nice feature with the upgraded software. However, the paper loading issues with HP should not be trivialized. Had they opted for something like the Epson--basically, gravity feed and manual loading, which makes it possible to print letter size and on non-traditional media easily (including papers with a deckled edge)--I'd be a very happy camper. But they did not and it creates nothing but problems.


Some papers, particular thicker or stiffer papers, either will not load at all or produce head strike problems with the HP. Basically, the engineering/design of the mechanism unfortunately limits the printer's usefulness.


Bill Kennedy
Professor of Photocommunications
Area Coordinator
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas USA


K2 Press, Inc.
2832 East MLK Blvd., Ste. 105
Austin, Texas 78702

-----Original Message-----
From: richardeskin <richard.eskin@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 26, 2012 10:48 am
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Need a Printer Recommendation


  
    
                  
Been thinking about this myself.  Recent article in Digital PhotoPro:

"  The companies who have been most active in the professional printer market are Canon and Epson.  HP makes some strong contenders, and several top professionals are especially attracted to their very large models, but over the past few years, HP seems to have chosen to put more efforts into other parts areas of its business.  "

From what I have read on various forums, HP has great print quality, doesn't have the head issues of Canon or the clog issues of Epson.  They are initially somewhat more expensive, but seem to have relatively few maintenance issues.  I have read mixed evaluations of their service.  That said, if they aren't actively pursuing large format printing in the future, it could be a concern.  Check out Luminous Landscape and Northlight for some comparisons.

Good luck!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "LouisD" <lou@...> wrote:
>
> I need some advice from the group on a new large format printer.
> 
> I've been using a Canon iPF6100 24" printer for the last 3 or 4 years and have been pleased with it for both color and B&W work. The weak point of this printer is the head life (less than 2 years, and at $500 each, and two heads per printer, it can get expensive. At least they are user replaceable). It never clogs, but when the heads go, they GO NOW!
> 
> I want to buy a 24" (or possibly a 44") wide printer. I print much more color than B&W, so I want good gamut and Dmax. I plan to use the driver with custom color profiles, not a RIP. Ink costs are always a concern, and so are clogs. Low maintenance is HIGH on my list of priorities.
> 
> My biggest problem is that I print only occasionally, usually in spurts, and sometimes I won't use my large format printer for 1–3 months at a time. I know that's begging for maintenance and head clogging problems. I guess I could farm out my larger work, but I lose control over the printing process, quality, etc., and as good as color management tools are, I still often like to print a 2nd or 3rd print to get exactly what I really want.
> 
> I'd appreciate any printer suggestions. I am also open to other advise. 
> 
> I'd even consider a reliable used printer (workhorse) that will accept 3rd party inks. 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
> 
> Lou Dina
>


    
             

  
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 04/26/2012 06:05 PM, Bill Kennedy wrote:

> I would add: at K2 Press we use both Epson and HP printers. Our HP Z3100
> has on-board profiling, which is a very nice feature with the upgraded
> software. However, the paper loading issues with HP should not be
> trivialized. Had they opted for something like the Epson--basically,
> gravity feed and manual loading, which makes it possible to print letter
> size and on non-traditional media easily (including papers with a
> deckled edge)--I'd be a very happy camper. But they did not and it
> creates nothing but problems.

It depends. You have to get used to the Zs media loading and sure it is 
not the easiest wide format on paper loading. That said I have printed 
sheets of many sizes and between 50 and 400 grams. I have printed roll 
media from 100 to 400 grams on cores 2 and 3" thick. The last meters 
from a 2" core can create problems, there are cures for that.

Of all the wide formats it may be best suited for intermittent jobs. The 
carts are not to big to get too old and pricing for twin 130 ML carts of 
the inks that are really used is competitive. Total of 6 heads will be 
$400 but you only need to exchange one at a time. 8 years in total here 
for two printers and only 4 heads replaced I think. There are 12 wipers 
to clean 12 nozzle areas and clogs are no issue at all. I have made 
access to the capping station easier so I can give them regular 
maintenance and that pays off too.

It is a champion for third party papers, calibration and profiling 
integrated and I can have a good profile within an hour for a new paper. 
The B&W quality on matte papers is one of the best for OEM wide formats. 
For B&W gloss there are issues with gloss difference and bronzing.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, pi\ufffdzografie, gicl\ufffde
www.pigment-print.com