Digital BW, The Print

I have recently got the UT14 set and was quite happy with the prints just using Epson driver - grayscale. I ran in to some problems trying to create some iccs for warm and neutral tone. I couldn't get enough separation while printing out the first 21-step wedge. Could anyone please give me some advice?

Paper: Red River polar matte, Iford Smooth Heavyweight matte
ACV curve: From Paul's UT14 profile pack. The matt N1,W1,W2 curves

My process: I opened Paul's 21-step GG2.2 tiff file in photoshop CS6, and then converted the file from GG2.2 to Adobe RGB(1998). I loaded the curve, and get a colored step wedge. To print, I let printer manager color (as oppose to photoshop), chose Adobe RGB as the icc, print with photo RPM and all the highest quality setting. (Did I do this right? Paul's otherwise excellent tutorial isn't so clear in this step. I had the longest time wondering what I did wrong until I tried converting the GG file to RGB).

The N-1 step wedge had good separation until the 35% to 60% region. The two warm step wedges are a little different, but mainly the problem occurs from 65% to 95%. For example, in the warm prints, my measured lab went from 26@60% to 21@95%, some 5% intervals measured no lab difference at all.

I was still able to make usable iccs. In the txt file, instead of entering:
65.0	26
70.0	26

I skipped many steps to avoid repeated values. The resultant icc showed separation in all 21 steps. I haven't had time to measure out the lab values yet, but to my naked eye, the steps are not distrubted as evenly as what it shows on my calibrated monitor. Even so, I made a few causal prints, and the results are quite satisfactory.

I did some search here and I assume the problems occured because those particular areas are too compressed. Is it possible to:
1) Maybe adjust the acv curve so that the wedge prints with better separation? Would this defeat the purpose of starting with a standard step file?
2) Since the iccs I created do show some separation, can I relinearize those iccs, i.e. make it an iterative process? If so, how?

feedthefoon <feedthefoon@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I have recently got the UT14 set and was quite happy with the prints just
> using Epson driver - grayscale. I ran in to some problems trying to create
> some iccs for warm and neutral tone. I couldn't get enough separation while
> printing out the first 21-step wedge. Could anyone please give me some
> advice?
>
> Paper: Red River polar matte, Iford Smooth Heavyweight matte
> ACV curve: From Paul's UT14 profile pack. The matt N1,W1,W2 curves
>

Start with curves made for glossy papers, such as the Ilford Gold Silk or
the Kirkland.  Use one that states "nca" - no color adjustment.

The matte paper curves will use Eboni for the blacks, that won't work well
with glossy papers.  The glossy curves use a mix of the C and M inks, which
are glossy PK types.


> My process: I opened Paul's 21-step GG2.2 tiff file in photoshop CS6, and
> then converted the file from GG2.2 to Adobe RGB(1998). I loaded the curve,
> and get a colored step wedge. To print, I let printer manager color (as
> oppose to photoshop), chose Adobe RGB as the icc, print with photo RPM and
> all the highest quality setting. (Did I do this right?
>
Yes (probably).  I tend to use the highest quality printing.

Let's make sure we talking about glossy curves being used before going into
other possible problems.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com




>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry if I have confused you, but I am trying to make warm toned prints on matte papers.

Your 1400-profile.zip only has .icc for glossy type papers, hence my trying to make new icc for the matte paper I am using.

I tried the following three curves applied to an adobe RGB converted 21-Step_0-100_L16_GG22.tif:
UT14-Matte-N-1.acv
UT14-Warm-1-MHW.acv (Example link: http://i.imgur.com/Y6KWm.jpg)
UT14-Warm-2-MHW.acv
(I assumed MHW means matte heavy weight)

I print them by:
-Printer manager color 
-Printer chose icc - adobe RGB
-highest print quality

On the darker levels the printed step wedge just didn't show distinct enough lab values to be used in the QTR-create-icc-rgb script. I ended up making the icc by skipping a few steps. Here is my example from the QTR-create-icc-rgb output:

QTR-Create-ICC RGB version 2.7.2.0

File: /Applications/QuadToneRIP/ut14-matte-w1-out.txt
Step	Dens	Lab	A	B	
0.00	0.081	93.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b                        L    +
5.00	0.130	89.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b                      L      +
10.00	0.180	85.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b                    L        +
15.00	0.220	82.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b                  L          +
20.00	0.288	77.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b               L             +
25.00	0.345	73.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b            L                +
30.00	0.436	67.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b         L                   +
35.00	0.517	62.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b      L                      +
40.00	0.603	57.00	0.00	0.00	-                             b   L                         +
45.00	0.775	48.00	0.00	0.00	-                           L b                             +
50.00	1.021	37.00	0.00	0.00	-                     L       b                             +
55.00	1.324	26.00	0.00	0.00	-              L              b                             +
65.00	1.355	25.00	0.00	0.00	-              L              b                             +
80.00	1.387	24.00	0.00	0.00	-             L               b                             +
85.00	1.454	22.00	0.00	0.00	-            L                b                             +
95.00	1.489	21.00	0.00	0.00	-           L                 b                             +
100.00	1.638	17.00	0.00	0.00	-         L                   b                             +

WARNING: None of the RGB curves are in ascending order.
Cannot make the Soft Proofing side of profile.

Created ICC file /Applications/QuadToneRIP/ut14-matte-w1-rgb.icc



My question is, how do I print a better initial step wedge that shows better separation on all 21 levels?






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
>  feedthefoon <feedthefoon@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > I have recently got the UT14 set and was quite happy with the prints just
> > using Epson driver - grayscale. I ran in to some problems trying to create
> > some iccs for warm and neutral tone. I couldn't get enough separation while
> > printing out the first 21-step wedge. Could anyone please give me some
> > advice?
> >
> > Paper: Red River polar matte, Iford Smooth Heavyweight matte
> > ACV curve: From Paul's UT14 profile pack. The matt N1,W1,W2 curves
> >
> 
> Start with curves made for glossy papers, such as the Ilford Gold Silk or
> the Kirkland.  Use one that states "nca" - no color adjustment.
> 
> The matte paper curves will use Eboni for the blacks, that won't work well
> with glossy papers.  The glossy curves use a mix of the C and M inks, which
> are glossy PK types.
> 
> 
> > My process: I opened Paul's 21-step GG2.2 tiff file in photoshop CS6, and
> > then converted the file from GG2.2 to Adobe RGB(1998). I loaded the curve,
> > and get a colored step wedge. To print, I let printer manager color (as
> > oppose to photoshop), chose Adobe RGB as the icc, print with photo RPM and
> > all the highest quality setting. (Did I do this right?
> >
> Yes (probably).  I tend to use the highest quality printing.
> 
> Let's make sure we talking about glossy curves being used before going into
> other possible problems.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Foon Hoe <feedthefoon@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> ...  I am trying to make warm toned prints on matte papers.
>

Sorry, I misread the post.

>
> Your 1400-profile.zip only has .icc for glossy type papers, hence my
> trying to make new icc for the matte paper I am using.
>

There is a neutral ICC for HPR (Hahnemuhle Photo Rag).

It is true that I mostly expected people to make their own ICCs.

I see that you found the curves for the matte papers.



> I tried the following three curves applied to an adobe RGB converted
> 21-Step_0-100_L16_GG22.tif:
> UT14-Matte-N-1.acv
> UT14-Warm-1-MHW.acv (Example link: http://i.imgur.com/Y6KWm.jpg)
> UT14-Warm-2-MHW.acv
> (I assumed MHW means matte heavy weight)
>

Yes.


>
> I print them by:
> -Printer manager color
>

No, have the Photoshop Print box at "Photoshop Manages Color."  Then enter
Adobe RGB right below that (on CS5 -- don't know about CS6, but assume it's
similar).

Let me know if that helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]