Digital BW, The Print

David,

You wrote:

>A beautiful rendition. Stunning light and atmosphere.
>Well done indeed!

Thank you.

>... How does the inkset you used behave using Piezo?

The Piezo driver can't vary the tone, and with this inkset it will give a
very bad distribution of tones.  The toner in a 3000 is in the yellow cart,
which is the lightest gray ink in the Piezo system.  So, you'd end up with
sepia highlights and Piezo color midtones.

>Could I use Piezo for neutral prints and your curves for
>alternatives? I currently have only a 3000.

The new FS-Neutral and the VM-Sepia use the same black and cyan inks.  So,
you could simply switch the yellow and magenta ink carts, do 3 cleaning
cycles and have the new inkset pretty much ready to go.

Or, you could mix the FS-Sepia and use the Piezo driver.  I've published a
rough formula for the FS-sepia.  It is a bit stronger than what I used for
the Mission print, but its gamut can be reduced to whatever you like by
mixing the inks with standard MIS FS inks.

Of course, it's a lot easier just to use the MIS VM-sepia inkset and not
mess with changing inks.  The inkset produces a very neutral grayscale with
the toner withheld.  So, the range of the VM-Sepia is real impressive --
neutral to sepia and everything in between.

Whether you would be happy with the 3000's driver is a question of how
sensitive you are to dots.  For my 16x20s the Epson dots are irrelevant.
For small prints, I might not be as happy with the 3000 and the Epson
driver.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Jeff,

>That is a beautiful image. And only enhanced by the wonderful
>tonality of the sepia inkset.

Thanks.  I never thought I'd hear my wife say she liked sepia toned prints,
but this one really works even for her.

>I am interested trying out the new sepia mix but ...

>I am using the VM hex set (CIS) with a 1280 on a Mac. My 4oz.
>bottles are about half full.

Are you comfortable with filling cartridges?  That might be the best way to
test the inkset without spending a lot of money.  Unfortunately, MIS does
not sell the inkset in pre-loaded carts.

>I understand that I need to call MIS and ask for the sepia as it's
>not on the website.

Yes.

>Is it a full 6 ink package? (Will I be replacing all inks currently
>used for VM printing)

I assume they sell the hextone version of the inkset.  I've only tried the
quadtone version, but MIS has the hextone formula.

Except for the black ink in the standard MIS VM, the inks are all different
in the VM-sepia.  It's a full hextone set.

>...Can I use the curves presently available for the Mac 1280 VM set?

Most of them work well with the VM-Sepia -- but in the reverse order.  That
is, the "cold" curve is sepia, the "warm" curve is neutral.  I've found that
the "warm" curve does need some tweaking to optimize the neutral prints.  In
some printers there is a warm cross-over visible at about 75-80%.  I've been
able to take care of this on the 3000.  I have not worked on a 1280 curve
yet, so I can't guarantee how well it will smooth out.  In general, however,
the 1280 "warm" curve problem is due to too steep a slope on the toner
curve.  With the 3000, I actually lowered the slope  to closer to a
"medium-warm" curve.  The 1280 MW curves usually work very well.  So, I
think we'll be in good shape with the 1280, but no absolute guarantees here.

Paul

--- 
Paul-great print, I am new to this MIS as I have been printing with 
Piezo for about a year now and am wondering if I can use the sepia in 
an Epson 1200 with your curves. If so when and where are the curves 
applied. Like I said I am new to the MIS but have been thinking about 
tring them. I am not dissatified with the Piezo but do not have good 
control over tones.

Thanks 
Vinny



In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
> David,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >A beautiful rendition. Stunning light and atmosphere.
> >Well done indeed!
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> >... How does the inkset you used behave using Piezo?
> 
> The Piezo driver can't vary the tone, and with this inkset it will 
give a
> very bad distribution of tones.  The toner in a 3000 is in the 
yellow cart,
> which is the lightest gray ink in the Piezo system.  So, you'd end 
up with
> sepia highlights and Piezo color midtones.
> 
> >Could I use Piezo for neutral prints and your curves for
> >alternatives? I currently have only a 3000.
> 
> The new FS-Neutral and the VM-Sepia use the same black and cyan 
inks.  So,
> you could simply switch the yellow and magenta ink carts, do 3 
cleaning
> cycles and have the new inkset pretty much ready to go.
> 
> Or, you could mix the FS-Sepia and use the Piezo driver.  I've 
published a
> rough formula for the FS-sepia.  It is a bit stronger than what I 
used for
> the Mission print, but its gamut can be reduced to whatever you 
like by
> mixing the inks with standard MIS FS inks.
> 
> Of course, it's a lot easier just to use the MIS VM-sepia inkset 
and not
> mess with changing inks.  The inkset produces a very neutral 
grayscale with
> the toner withheld.  So, the range of the VM-Sepia is real 
impressive --
> neutral to sepia and everything in between.
> 
> Whether you would be happy with the 3000's driver is a question of 
how
> sensitive you are to dots.  For my 16x20s the Epson dots are 
irrelevant.
> For small prints, I might not be as happy with the 3000 and the 
Epson

> driver.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Vinny,

The VM-sepia should work fine in your 1200.

To use the variable-tone system, you continue to edit in grayscale.  When
you are ready to print, save the g/s file, convert the file to RGB, load a
tone curve (the screen will no longer be WYSIWYG), and print through the
Epson driver.  (A Photoshop "action" can make this a one-button process.)

The workflow is described is some detail in information sheets I have.

Since MIS only sells the VM-sepia in bulk, you'll need to load carts or use
a CFS/CIS.

Paul

_______________________

  -----Original Message-----
  From: vinyo88 [mailto:orlandovl@...]
  Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:19 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Mission San Miguel - new sepia webpage photo


  ---
  Paul-great print, I am new to this MIS as I have been printing with
  Piezo for about a year now and am wondering if I can use the sepia in
  an Epson 1200 with your curves. If so when and where are the curves
  applied. Like I said I am new to the MIS but have been thinking about
  tring them. I am not dissatified with the Piezo but do not have good
  control over tones.

  Thanks
  Vinny



  In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...>
  wrote:
  > David,
  >
  > You wrote:
  >
  > >A beautiful rendition. Stunning light and atmosphere.
  > >Well done indeed!
  >
  > Thank you.
  >
  > >... How does the inkset you used behave using Piezo?
  >
  > The Piezo driver can't vary the tone, and with this inkset it will
  give a
  > very bad distribution of tones.  The toner in a 3000 is in the
  yellow cart,
  > which is the lightest gray ink in the Piezo system.  So, you'd end
  up with
  > sepia highlights and Piezo color midtones.
  >
  > >Could I use Piezo for neutral prints and your curves for
  > >alternatives? I currently have only a 3000.
  >
  > The new FS-Neutral and the VM-Sepia use the same black and cyan
  inks.  So,
  > you could simply switch the yellow and magenta ink carts, do 3
  cleaning
  > cycles and have the new inkset pretty much ready to go.
  >
  > Or, you could mix the FS-Sepia and use the Piezo driver.  I've
  published a
  > rough formula for the FS-sepia.  It is a bit stronger than what I
  used for
  > the Mission print, but its gamut can be reduced to whatever you
  like by
  > mixing the inks with standard MIS FS inks.
  >
  > Of course, it's a lot easier just to use the MIS VM-sepia inkset
  and not
  > mess with changing inks.  The inkset produces a very neutral
  grayscale with
  > the toner withheld.  So, the range of the VM-Sepia is real
  impressive --
  > neutral to sepia and everything in between.
  >
  > Whether you would be happy with the 3000's driver is a question of
  how
  > sensitive you are to dots.  For my 16x20s the Epson dots are
  irrelevant.
  > For small prints, I might not be as happy with the 3000 and the
  Epson
  > driver.
  >
  > Paul
  > http://www.PaulRoark.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Paul,

You answered more questions than I had thought to ask. This 
should be interesting. I've tweaked your MW curve for my 1280 to 
get rid of some banding (posterizing) and I'd expect that there will 
be some tweaking with the sepia set.

Jeff


> 
> Are you comfortable with filling cartridges?  That might be the 
best way to
> test the inkset without spending a lot of money.  Unfortunately, 
MIS does
> not sell the inkset in pre-loaded carts.
> 
> >I understand that I need to call MIS and ask for the sepia as 
it's
> >not on the website.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> >Is it a full 6 ink package? (Will I be replacing all inks currently
> >used for VM printing)
> 
> I assume they sell the hextone version of the inkset.  I've only 
tried the
> quadtone version, but MIS has the hextone formula.
> 
> Except for the black ink in the standard MIS VM, the inks are all 
different
> in the VM-sepia.  It's a full hextone set.
> 
> >...Can I use the curves presently available for the Mac 1280 
VM set?
> 
> Most of them work well with the VM-Sepia -- but in the reverse 
order.  That
> is, the "cold" curve is sepia, the "warm" curve is neutral.  I've 
found that
> the "warm" curve does need some tweaking to optimize the 
neutral prints.  In
> some printers there is a warm cross-over visible at about 
75-80%.  I've been
> able to take care of this on the 3000.  I have not worked on a 
1280 curve
> yet, so I can't guarantee how well it will smooth out.  In general, 
however,
> the 1280 "warm" curve problem is due to too steep a slope on 
the toner
> curve.  With the 3000, I actually lowered the slope  to closer to a
> "medium-warm" curve.  The 1280 MW curves usually work very 
well.  So, I
> think we'll be in good shape with the 1280, but no absolute 
guarantees here.
> 
> Paul

---
Paul
Thank you for the info. Your work is beautifull. Hope I get there 
soon. Question: where can I get the info sheets you mentioned

Vinny 





 In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
> Vinny,
> 
> The VM-sepia should work fine in your 1200.
> 
> To use the variable-tone system, you continue to edit in 
grayscale.  When
> you are ready to print, save the g/s file, convert the file to RGB, 
load a
> tone curve (the screen will no longer be WYSIWYG), and print 
through the
> Epson driver.  (A Photoshop "action" can make this a one-button 
process.)
> 
> The workflow is described is some detail in information sheets I 
have.
> 
> Since MIS only sells the VM-sepia in bulk, you'll need to load 
carts or use
> a CFS/CIS.
> 
> Paul
> 
> _______________________
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: vinyo88 [mailto:orlandovl@h...]
>   Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:19 PM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Mission San Miguel - new sepia webpage 
photo
> 
> 
>   ---
>   Paul-great print, I am new to this MIS as I have been printing 
with
>   Piezo for about a year now and am wondering if I can use the 
sepia in
>   an Epson 1200 with your curves. If so when and where are the 
curves
>   applied. Like I said I am new to the MIS but have been thinking 
about
>   tring them. I am not dissatified with the Piezo but do not have 
good
>   control over tones.
> 
>   Thanks
>   Vinny
> 
> 
> 
>   In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...>
>   wrote:
>   > David,
>   >
>   > You wrote:
>   >
>   > >A beautiful rendition. Stunning light and atmosphere.
>   > >Well done indeed!
>   >
>   > Thank you.
>   >
>   > >... How does the inkset you used behave using Piezo?
>   >
>   > The Piezo driver can't vary the tone, and with this inkset it 
will
>   give a
>   > very bad distribution of tones.  The toner in a 3000 is in the
>   yellow cart,
>   > which is the lightest gray ink in the Piezo system.  So, you'd 
end
>   up with
>   > sepia highlights and Piezo color midtones.
>   >
>   > >Could I use Piezo for neutral prints and your curves for
>   > >alternatives? I currently have only a 3000.
>   >
>   > The new FS-Neutral and the VM-Sepia use the same black and cyan
>   inks.  So,
>   > you could simply switch the yellow and magenta ink carts, do 3
>   cleaning
>   > cycles and have the new inkset pretty much ready to go.
>   >
>   > Or, you could mix the FS-Sepia and use the Piezo driver.  I've
>   published a
>   > rough formula for the FS-sepia.  It is a bit stronger than what 
I
>   used for
>   > the Mission print, but its gamut can be reduced to whatever you
>   like by
>   > mixing the inks with standard MIS FS inks.
>   >
>   > Of course, it's a lot easier just to use the MIS VM-sepia inkset
>   and not
>   > mess with changing inks.  The inkset produces a very neutral
>   grayscale with
>   > the toner withheld.  So, the range of the VM-Sepia is real
>   impressive --
>   > neutral to sepia and everything in between.
>   >
>   > Whether you would be happy with the 3000's driver is a question 
of

>   how
>   > sensitive you are to dots.  For my 16x20s the Epson dots are
>   irrelevant.
>   > For small prints, I might not be as happy with the 3000 and the
>   Epson
>   > driver.
>   >
>   > Paul
>   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your response. The cart switching idea sounds good to me. 
I guess if I order in bulk I could just get the vm yellow  and 
magenta plus the full fs inkset (?). I think the warmer tone would be 
for larger images anyhoo so that would work.

Now, you say you printed 16x20 and I know you have curves for EAM so 
I have to ask (?) which paper do you use for the large print.

Thank you so much for all the work you've put into this subject,

Regards,

David Hatton


> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >A beautiful rendition. Stunning light and atmosphere.
> >Well done indeed!
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> >... How does the inkset you used behave using Piezo?
> 
> The Piezo driver can't vary the tone, and with this inkset it will 
give a
> very bad distribution of tones.  The toner in a 3000 is in the 
yellow cart,
> which is the lightest gray ink in the Piezo system.  So, you'd end 
up with
> sepia highlights and Piezo color midtones.
> 
> >Could I use Piezo for neutral prints and your curves for
> >alternatives? I currently have only a 3000.
> 
> The new FS-Neutral and the VM-Sepia use the same black and cyan 
inks.  So,
> you could simply switch the yellow and magenta ink carts, do 3 
cleaning
> cycles and have the new inkset pretty much ready to go.
> 
> Or, you could mix the FS-Sepia and use the Piezo driver.  I've 
published a
> rough formula for the FS-sepia.  It is a bit stronger than what I 
used for
> the Mission print, but its gamut can be reduced to whatever you 
like by
> mixing the inks with standard MIS FS inks.
> 
> Of course, it's a lot easier just to use the MIS VM-sepia inkset 
and not
> mess with changing inks.  The inkset produces a very neutral 
grayscale with
> the toner withheld.  So, the range of the VM-Sepia is real 
impressive --
> neutral to sepia and everything in between.
> 
> Whether you would be happy with the 3000's driver is a question of 
how
> sensitive you are to dots.  For my 16x20s the Epson dots are 
irrelevant.
> For small prints, I might not be as happy with the 3000 and the 
Epson

> driver.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Vinny,

Tell me what platform you use -- Mac or PC -- and I'll send the info sheet
and curves.

Paul

  -----Original Message-----
  From: vinyo88 [mailto:orlandovl@...]
  Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:09 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Mission San Miguel - new sepia webpage photo


  ---
  Paul
  Thank you for the info. Your work is beautifull. Hope I get there
  soon. Question: where can I get the info sheets you mentioned

  Vinny





  In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...>
  wrote:
  > Vinny,
  >
  > The VM-sepia should work fine in your 1200.
  >
  > To use the variable-tone system, you continue to edit in
  grayscale.  When
  > you are ready to print, save the g/s file, convert the file to RGB,
  load a
  > tone curve (the screen will no longer be WYSIWYG), and print
  through the
  > Epson driver.  (A Photoshop "action" can make this a one-button
  process.)
  >
  > The workflow is described is some detail in information sheets I
  have.
  >
  > Since MIS only sells the VM-sepia in bulk, you'll need to load
  carts or use
  > a CFS/CIS.
  >
  > Paul
  >
  > _______________________
  >
  >
  >   -----Original Message-----
  >   From: vinyo88 [mailto:orlandovl@h...]
  >   Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:19 PM
  >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
  >   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Mission San Miguel - new sepia webpage
  photo
  >
  >
  >   ---
  >   Paul-great print, I am new to this MIS as I have been printing
  with
  >   Piezo for about a year now and am wondering if I can use the
  sepia in
  >   an Epson 1200 with your curves. If so when and where are the
  curves
  >   applied. Like I said I am new to the MIS but have been thinking
  about
  >   tring them. I am not dissatified with the Piezo but do not have
  good
  >   control over tones.
  >
  >   Thanks
  >   Vinny
  >
  >
  >
  >   In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
  <paul.roark@v...>
  >   wrote:
  >   > David,
  >   >
  >   > You wrote:
  >   >
  >   > >A beautiful rendition. Stunning light and atmosphere.
  >   > >Well done indeed!
  >   >
  >   > Thank you.
  >   >
  >   > >... How does the inkset you used behave using Piezo?
  >   >
  >   > The Piezo driver can't vary the tone, and with this inkset it
  will
  >   give a
  >   > very bad distribution of tones.  The toner in a 3000 is in the
  >   yellow cart,
  >   > which is the lightest gray ink in the Piezo system.  So, you'd
  end
  >   up with
  >   > sepia highlights and Piezo color midtones.
  >   >
  >   > >Could I use Piezo for neutral prints and your curves for
  >   > >alternatives? I currently have only a 3000.
  >   >
  >   > The new FS-Neutral and the VM-Sepia use the same black and cyan
  >   inks.  So,
  >   > you could simply switch the yellow and magenta ink carts, do 3
  >   cleaning
  >   > cycles and have the new inkset pretty much ready to go.
  >   >
  >   > Or, you could mix the FS-Sepia and use the Piezo driver.  I've
  >   published a
  >   > rough formula for the FS-sepia.  It is a bit stronger than what
  I
  >   used for
  >   > the Mission print, but its gamut can be reduced to whatever you
  >   like by
  >   > mixing the inks with standard MIS FS inks.
  >   >
  >   > Of course, it's a lot easier just to use the MIS VM-sepia inkset
  >   and not
  >   > mess with changing inks.  The inkset produces a very neutral
  >   grayscale with
  >   > the toner withheld.  So, the range of the VM-Sepia is real
  >   impressive --
  >   > neutral to sepia and everything in between.
  >   >
  >   > Whether you would be happy with the 3000's driver is a question
  of
  >   how
  >   > sensitive you are to dots.  For my 16x20s the Epson dots are
  >   irrelevant.
  >   > For small prints, I might not be as happy with the 3000 and the
  >   Epson
  >   > driver.
  >   >
  >   > Paul
  >   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---
Paul,
I use a PC running PS6.01


Thanks a Million
Vinny



 In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
> Vinny,
> 
> Tell me what platform you use -- Mac or PC -- and I'll send the 
info sheet
> and curves.
> 
> Paul
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: vinyo88 [mailto:orlandovl@h...]
>   Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:09 AM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Mission San Miguel - new sepia webpage 
photo
> 
> 
>   ---
>   Paul
>   Thank you for the info. Your work is beautifull. Hope I get there
>   soon. Question: where can I get the info sheets you mentioned
> 
>   Vinny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...>
>   wrote:
>   > Vinny,
>   >
>   > The VM-sepia should work fine in your 1200.
>   >
>   > To use the variable-tone system, you continue to edit in
>   grayscale.  When
>   > you are ready to print, save the g/s file, convert the file to 
RGB,
>   load a
>   > tone curve (the screen will no longer be WYSIWYG), and print
>   through the
>   > Epson driver.  (A Photoshop "action" can make this a one-button
>   process.)
>   >
>   > The workflow is described is some detail in information sheets I
>   have.
>   >
>   > Since MIS only sells the VM-sepia in bulk, you'll need to load
>   carts or use
>   > a CFS/CIS.
>   >
>   > Paul
>   >
>   > _______________________
>   >
>   >
>   >   -----Original Message-----
>   >   From: vinyo88 [mailto:orlandovl@h...]
>   >   Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:19 PM
>   >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   >   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Mission San Miguel - new sepia 
webpage
>   photo
>   >
>   >
>   >   ---
>   >   Paul-great print, I am new to this MIS as I have been printing
>   with
>   >   Piezo for about a year now and am wondering if I can use the
>   sepia in
>   >   an Epson 1200 with your curves. If so when and where are the
>   curves
>   >   applied. Like I said I am new to the MIS but have been 
thinking
>   about
>   >   tring them. I am not dissatified with the Piezo but do not 
have
>   good
>   >   control over tones.
>   >
>   >   Thanks
>   >   Vinny
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >   In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
>   <paul.roark@v...>
>   >   wrote:
>   >   > David,
>   >   >
>   >   > You wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > >A beautiful rendition. Stunning light and atmosphere.
>   >   > >Well done indeed!
>   >   >
>   >   > Thank you.
>   >   >
>   >   > >... How does the inkset you used behave using Piezo?
>   >   >
>   >   > The Piezo driver can't vary the tone, and with this inkset 
it
>   will
>   >   give a
>   >   > very bad distribution of tones.  The toner in a 3000 is in 
the
>   >   yellow cart,
>   >   > which is the lightest gray ink in the Piezo system.  So, 
you'd
>   end
>   >   up with
>   >   > sepia highlights and Piezo color midtones.
>   >   >
>   >   > >Could I use Piezo for neutral prints and your curves for
>   >   > >alternatives? I currently have only a 3000.
>   >   >
>   >   > The new FS-Neutral and the VM-Sepia use the same black and 
cyan
>   >   inks.  So,
>   >   > you could simply switch the yellow and magenta ink carts, 
do 3
>   >   cleaning
>   >   > cycles and have the new inkset pretty much ready to go.
>   >   >
>   >   > Or, you could mix the FS-Sepia and use the Piezo driver.  
I've
>   >   published a
>   >   > rough formula for the FS-sepia.  It is a bit stronger than 
what
>   I
>   >   used for
>   >   > the Mission print, but its gamut can be reduced to whatever 
you
>   >   like by
>   >   > mixing the inks with standard MIS FS inks.
>   >   >
>   >   > Of course, it's a lot easier just to use the MIS VM-sepia 
inkset
>   >   and not
>   >   > mess with changing inks.  The inkset produces a very neutral
>   >   grayscale with
>   >   > the toner withheld.  So, the range of the VM-Sepia is real
>   >   impressive --
>   >   > neutral to sepia and everything in between.
>   >   >
>   >   > Whether you would be happy with the 3000's driver is a 
question
>   of
>   >   how
>   >   > sensitive you are to dots.  For my 16x20s the Epson dots are
>   >   irrelevant.
>   >   > For small prints, I might not be as happy with the 3000 and 
the
>   >   Epson
>   >   > driver.
>   >   >
>   >   > Paul
>   >   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service.

> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,

You wrote:

>... The cart switching idea sounds good to me.

It's more practical than multiple printers unless you are in business and
have a fair volume of printing.  Ultimately, to much switching and cleaning
will lead to a required servicing of the printer to clean it.

>I guess if I order in bulk I could just get the vm yellow  and
>magenta plus the full fs inkset (?). ...

I think so.  You could also just get the VM-Sepia and try the neutral end of
its range to see if you really need the FS-Neutral and Piezo driver at all.
If you do, then you could order the FS-N  yellow and magenta position inks.

>Now, you say you printed 16x20 and I know you have curves for EAM so
>I have to ask (?) which paper do you use for the large print.

I use EAM for 16x20.  I cut it from a 24" roll.  In fact, contrary to
conventional wisdom, I've found I can just slice 17" off the 24" roll and
feed it into the 3000.  (Some say you must feed the paper in the direction
it was designed for to keep the "bias" correct.)

I do reduce the curl by slicing off the 17" strips a day before and putting
them under a paper box to reduce the curl a bit.  (I'm experimenting with
different ways to reduce the curl.  Dampening the paper seems to help in
this regard.  So the last time I used a hand sprayer to dampen blotter
papers that I sandwiched the EAM between.  The I let the pile dry on drying
screens.  Next time I'll probably just spray the back of the EAM and have it
hang to dry with weights on the bottom holding it straight.  The flattening
procedure is clearly a work in progress.)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

__________________


>
> You wrote:
>...
>
> >... How does the inkset you used behave using Piezo?
>
> The Piezo driver can't vary the tone, and with this inkset it will
give a
> very bad distribution of tones.  ...

> >Could I use Piezo for neutral prints and your curves for
> >alternatives? I currently have only a 3000.
>
> The new FS-Neutral and the VM-Sepia use the same black and cyan
inks.  So,
> you could simply switch the yellow and magenta ink carts, do 3
cleaning
> cycles and have the new inkset pretty much ready to go.
>
> Or, you could mix the FS-Sepia and use the Piezo driver.  I've
published a
> rough formula for the FS-sepia.  It is a bit stronger than what I
used for
> the Mission print, but its gamut can be reduced to whatever you
like by
> mixing the inks with standard MIS FS inks.
>
> Of course, it's a lot easier just to use the MIS VM-sepia inkset
and not
> mess with changing inks.  The inkset produces a very neutral
grayscale with
> the toner withheld.  So, the range of the VM-Sepia is real
impressive --
> neutral to sepia and everything in between.
>
> Whether you would be happy with the 3000's driver is a question of
how
> sensitive you are to dots.  For my 16x20s the Epson dots are
irrelevant.
> For small prints, I might not be as happy with the 3000 and the
Epson

> driver.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

At 11:11 AM 3/21/2002 -0800, Paul Roark wrote:

>I do reduce the curl by slicing off the 17" strips a day before and putting
>them under a paper box to reduce the curl a bit.  (I'm experimenting with
>different ways to reduce the curl.  Dampening the paper seems to help in
>this regard.  So the last time I used a hand sprayer to dampen blotter
>papers that I sandwiched the EAM between.  The I let the pile dry on drying
>screens.  Next time I'll probably just spray the back of the EAM and have it
>hang to dry with weights on the bottom holding it straight.  The flattening
>procedure is clearly a work in progress.)

Paul,

Have you tried rolling the paper backwards on a roll core for a day or two 
to see how that affects the curl?



****************
James E. Martz
Milan, OH
jemartz@...
*****************