Digital BW, The Print

Moreno,

You wrote:

>I'm trying to get an idea of the colour differences between the MIS FS
>regular and the FS Neutral before investing in the inks. I've used the MIS
>Quads in the past, so this would be my reference point. Can anyone describe
>the differences between the FS inks and the original quads? Better yet, are
>there any online images which illustrate the relative differences? TIA.

(We should get some images posted, but I'm afraid it hasn't been done yet.)

Let me give you some relative numbers.  I judge "warmth" by measuring the
difference between the scanner red and blue readings or the densitometer's
cyan and yellow readings.  So, I end up with a single number that gives me
an idea of relative "warmth."  With that methodology in mind, here are rough
comparisons:

MIS = 13 units warm
FS = 8 units warm
FS-N = -2 units warm (that is, its 2 units cool).

These numbers are averages from EAM samples.  They should not be considered
the last word, as I am working from memory.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul, could you tell us that is the difference between the basic MIS 
inks and the MIS FS inks. All I could glean out of the MIS website is 
that the FS inks are a different formula. In other words, what does 
the Full spectrum thing mean in real terms.

Thanks,

Bruce McElhaney
McElhaney Portrait Studio
Livonia, MI



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Moreno,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >I'm trying to get an idea of the colour differences between the 
MIS FS
> >regular and the FS Neutral before investing in the inks. I've used 
the MIS
> >Quads in the past, so this would be my reference point. Can anyone 
describe
> >the differences between the FS inks and the original quads? Better 
yet, are
> >there any online images which illustrate the relative differences? 
TIA.
> 
> (We should get some images posted, but I'm afraid it hasn't been 
done yet.)
> 
> Let me give you some relative numbers.  I judge "warmth" by 
measuring the
> difference between the scanner red and blue readings or the 
densitometer's
> cyan and yellow readings.  So, I end up with a single number that 
gives me
> an idea of relative "warmth."  With that methodology in mind, here 
are rough
> comparisons:
> 
> MIS = 13 units warm
> FS = 8 units warm
> FS-N = -2 units warm (that is, its 2 units cool).
> 
> These numbers are averages from EAM samples.  They should not be 
considered

> the last word, as I am working from memory.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

> Let me give you some relative numbers.  I judge "warmth" by measuring the
> difference between the scanner red and blue readings or the densitometer's
> cyan and yellow readings.  So, I end up with a single number that gives me
> an idea of relative "warmth."  With that methodology in mind, here are
rough
> comparisons:
>
> MIS = 13 units warm
> FS = 8 units warm
> FS-N = -2 units warm (that is, its 2 units cool).
>
> These numbers are averages from EAM samples.  They should not be
considered
> the last word, as I am working from memory.

Thanks Paul. That gives me a pretty good idea.

Bruce,

You wrote:

>Paul, could you tell us that is the difference between the basic MIS
>inks and the MIS FS inks. All I could glean out of the MIS website is
>that the FS inks are a different formula. In other words, what does
>the Full spectrum thing mean in real terms.

The original MIS quads are dilutions of the MIS Archival black ink.  That
ink is only about 95% as dark as the MIS VM/FS black ink.  It also warms
more.  It is about as good in terms of fading, however.  The MIS quads are
also the warmer than the FS inks.  See the comparison below.  And, of
course, there are density differences between the midtones such that the
original quads are used with the Brandin or other workflow aimed at them.
They will not work with the Piezo software or the VM curves.

The FS inkset is made from the FS/VM black.  My tests show that black warms
slightly less and more slowly than most that I've tested.  As such, it is
also the base for the FS-N and the VM-Sepia inks, which I've designed not
only to be more neutral but also to minimize the warming.  The FS inks are
also designed for the Piezo software.  For the quad machines there are also
free Epson driver workflows that work very well with them.  With hextone
machines, however, only the Piezo driver currently works.

I hope this helps clarify the differences.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com



__________________________

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Moreno,
>
> You wrote:
>
> >I'm trying to get an idea of the colour differences between the
MIS FS
> >regular and the FS Neutral before investing in the inks. I've used
the MIS
> >Quads in the past, so this would be my reference point. Can anyone
describe
> >the differences between the FS inks and the original quads? Better
yet, are
> >there any online images which illustrate the relative differences?
TIA.
>
> (We should get some images posted, but I'm afraid it hasn't been
done yet.)
>
> Let me give you some relative numbers.  I judge "warmth" by
measuring the
> difference between the scanner red and blue readings or the
densitometer's
> cyan and yellow readings.  So, I end up with a single number that
gives me
> an idea of relative "warmth."  With that methodology in mind, here
are rough
> comparisons:
>
> MIS = 13 units warm
> FS = 8 units warm
> FS-N = -2 units warm (that is, its 2 units cool).
>
> These numbers are averages from EAM samples.  They should not be
considered

> the last word, as I am working from memory.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Folks,

As this list has grown many of us are now being inundated by emails and
requests for information both on and off list. Martin/Antonis would it be
possible to create a Quadtone FAQ file that can answer many of these very
important questioons from newcomers.

When a new user is beginning with Quadtone inksets the resulting frustration
and learning curve can be formidable. Many of us have been doing this for
years and have perfected the process with currently available materials.
Today I received 32 emails when I got home asking for advice. I love to
answer them but as available time is becoming less and less I fear my
answers may be viewed as short. I certainly do not want that to happen.

Mike


----- Original Message -----

From: "btmcelhaney" <kmcelhaney@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Comparison between MIS inks


> Paul, could you tell us that is the difference between the basic MIS
> inks and the MIS FS inks. All I could glean out of the MIS website is
> that the FS inks are a different formula. In other words, what does
> the Full spectrum thing mean in real terms.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce McElhaney
> McElhaney Portrait Studio
> Livonia, MI

Thanks, Paul.  At last I understand some of the differences. Hope 
everyone here understands what an invaluable resource you are.  Hope 
MIS appreciates what you do for their sales . . .


Bruce McElhaney
McElhaney Portrait Studio
Livonia, MI


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bruce,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >Paul, could you tell us that is the difference between the basic 
MIS
> >inks and the MIS FS inks. All I could glean out of the MIS website 
is
> >that the FS inks are a different formula. In other words, what does
> >the Full spectrum thing mean in real terms.
> 
> The original MIS quads are dilutions of the MIS Archival black 
ink.  That
> ink is only about 95% as dark as the MIS VM/FS black ink.  It also 
warms
> more.  It is about as good in terms of fading, however.  The MIS 
quads are
> also the warmer than the FS inks.  See the comparison below.  And, 
of
> course, there are density differences between the midtones such 
that the
> original quads are used with the Brandin or other workflow aimed at 
them.
> They will not work with the Piezo software or the VM curves.
> 
> The FS inkset is made from the FS/VM black.  My tests show that 
black warms
> slightly less and more slowly than most that I've tested.  As such, 
it is
> also the base for the FS-N and the VM-Sepia inks, which I've 
designed not
> only to be more neutral but also to minimize the warming.  The FS 
inks are
> also designed for the Piezo software.  For the quad machines there 
are also
> free Epson driver workflows that work very well with them.  With 
hextone
> machines, however, only the Piezo driver currently works.
> 
> I hope this helps clarify the differences.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Moreno,
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > >I'm trying to get an idea of the colour differences between the
> MIS FS
> > >regular and the FS Neutral before investing in the inks. I've 
used
> the MIS
> > >Quads in the past, so this would be my reference point. Can 
anyone
> describe
> > >the differences between the FS inks and the original quads? 
Better
> yet, are
> > >there any online images which illustrate the relative 
differences?

> TIA.
> >
> > (We should get some images posted, but I'm afraid it hasn't been
> done yet.)
> >
> > Let me give you some relative numbers.  I judge "warmth" by
> measuring the
> > difference between the scanner red and blue readings or the
> densitometer's
> > cyan and yellow readings.  So, I end up with a single number that
> gives me
> > an idea of relative "warmth."  With that methodology in mind, here
> are rough
> > comparisons:
> >
> > MIS = 13 units warm
> > FS = 8 units warm
> > FS-N = -2 units warm (that is, its 2 units cool).
> >
> > These numbers are averages from EAM samples.  They should not be
> considered
> > the last word, as I am working from memory.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com