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RE: [Digital BW] Print Quality -- MF film (was From A Nikon D1)

RE: [Digital BW] Print Quality -- MF film (was From A Nikon D1)

2002-05-30 by Paul Roark

Austin,

>...waiting for 16M pixels ...

Concur -- and monochrome at that.

>... IMO, if you want to improve your photography (depending on what
>your style is that is), moving to a decent MF can make a
>HUGE difference.

Also, a big concur.  In fact, with digital I'm finding the extend to which I
can manipulate the image without obvious artifacts is making my MF equipment
marginal -- the film grain seems to be the limiting factor.

> I pretty much end up using 35mm for snapshots ...

Another concur.  In fact, I've moved to the MF rangefinders -- Fuji 645 Zi &
Bronica RF 645 -- and find them to be good compromises that can also do
snapshots.  For family affairs/travel, the Fuji Zi with T400CN film in it is
an amazingly flexible, easy way to go.

But, to get to my question -- I suspect that the old "rules of thumb" that
I/we used in the darkroom with respect to B&W film may no longer apply to
film that is shot for scanning.  With modern scanners that are designed --
perhaps primarily -- to be able to capture the wide density range of slide
film, I would think a low contrast B&W negative might be wasting the
scanner's capabilities.

So, what I'm experimenting with is shooting Tech Pan and developing it at a
higher contrast than I would if I were going to print the negatives.  Since
grain is my limiting factor with TMax 100, TP helps solve that problem
nicely.  I don't really have objective tests that tell me whether I'm closer
to finding the scanner's (in my case the Nikon 8000) optimum range, but the
bottom line is that the scanned images are clearly better.

It could, of course, be mostly the film that is resulting in the better
images.  However, with traditional enlarging, TMax 100 developed to maximize
sharpness (not minimize grain) won this contest and was my standard for
years.

My current formula for TP is to shoot at about 40 ISO and develop in Xtol
1:3 (all distilled water for this developer).  At 75 degrees f., 18 minutes
with agitation at 1 minute intervals seems to do the trick.  TP in Xtol is
much less prone to uneven development, but I still am very careful with
agitation.  I use the Kodak vertical shake method (I use 20 shakes of the
small metal tank, as fast and hard as I can), but I alternate that method
with a normal inversion agitation.  I use a "plain sky" (ground glass over
the lens) shot to test the agitation methods.

The results are a characteristic curve with at least 12 stops of useable
image range (all that I've tested).  The slope at the mid-gray (per the
meter reading) is 1.25.  The mid-range (mid-gray plus and minus 3 stops for
a total of 6 stops) has a contrast index (average slope) of about 0.88. At
close to 9 stops over the meter-read gray point the slope is  still close to
30%.  This point is about 7.5 stops above the film base + fog point.   (I
read the densities with a meter, so they are in stops, not log density
values.)  The Nikon 8000 is still able to separate the values at this
density and with the 30% slope -- but barely.  I can't see that noise is
much of a factor anywhere.  However, I haven't had enough experience with
real world images using this combination to know for sure.

I have developed the TP to higher contrast, but the image quality seemed to
deteriorate.  The resolution seemed to decrease and grain increase.  Again,
this may have been mostly the film, not the scanner, characteristics that I
was seeing.

I'd be curious if there are any generalities about how to squeeze the best
performance out of these CCD scanners, or whether they are too different to
generalize.  In most of the technical systems I'm familiar with the end
points are usually marginal, but using too little of the mid-section range
and having to increase contrast that much more is also probably bad.

So, is there a general "sweet spot" compromise with these scanners that
you've been able to ascertain?

What B&W film/contrast have you found optimizes the quality of your scans?

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Print Quality -- MF film (was From A Nikon D1)

2002-05-30 by Austin Franklin

Hi Paul,

> > I pretty much end up using 35mm for snapshots ...
>
> Another concur.  In fact, I've moved to the MF rangefinders --
> Fuji 645 Zi &
> Bronica RF 645

I had a Fuji GA645, but found the slow lenses and autofocus weren't to my
liking...  I do have a GS645 folder though, that I like a lot ;-)  Tell me
more about the Bronica if you would.

> -- and find them to be good compromises that can also do
> snapshots.  For family affairs/travel, the Fuji Zi with T400CN
> film in it is
> an amazingly flexible, easy way to go.

I agree!  It was hoping for better with the GA645, perhaps the Zi is much
better...but still that slow lense always gets me...

> But, to get to my question -- I suspect that the old "rules of thumb" that
> I/we used in the darkroom with respect to B&W film may no longer apply to
> film that is shot for scanning.  With modern scanners that are designed --
> perhaps primarily -- to be able to capture the wide density range of slide
> film, I would think a low contrast B&W negative might be wasting the
> scanner's capabilities.

Well, not so for me.  I use a Leafscan, which scans B&W using a neutral
density filter...and I get amazing tonality, far and above what I got using
my Polaroid SS4k...which, as you know, scans in RGB and converts.  I tried
doing the conversion my self in PS, but still, nothing I've seen gives
better B&W scans than the Leaf.

I used to develop %30 for cold light printing.  I have really settled on
just standard development for scanning...and shooting at standard ASA...but
I may change that if I get more time to experiment.  I'm quite happy with
what I get right now...but I'm still dialing things in.

I do develop in D-76 1:1 to limit grain, and it works great.  Very smooth
tonality, and very low grain.

> The results are a characteristic curve with at least 12 stops of useable
> image range (all that I've tested).

Where on earth were you during the big "number of stops you can record on
B&W film" debate?

> I'd be curious if there are any generalities about how to squeeze the best
> performance out of these CCD scanners, or whether they are too
> different to
> generalize.

Get a Leaf ;-)

> So, is there a general "sweet spot" compromise with these scanners that
> you've been able to ascertain?

Not with the Leaf.

> What B&W film/contrast have you found optimizes the quality of your scans?

I'm still experimenting with that.  I get great scans from my overdeveloped
%30 film from years ago...and there's no blockage that I can see!  I think
with the Jobo, which I didn't use before, I may be getting the %30 just
because of the constant agitation the Jobo does...so even though I don't
increase my development times, I like a little darker negative for scanning.
After all, the lamp source for the Leaf is a cold light...

I find Plus-X and Delta-100 give me the best range of tonality for my type
of work, again, developed in D-76 1:1.  Tri-X for mid-light applications,
shot at 200/400 and 800...and Delta 3200 shot at 1600 for low-light
applications, but I'm still working on development etc. with that film.

Regards,

Austin

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