Digital BW, The Print

Don

I said "sufficient quality " not sufficient range.

I've had excellent results with a 1270, Epson inks and driver and Pictorico
film with negs for Platinum and Ziatype prints as well as silver MG VI,
Forte Polywarmtone and Berger papers.

I love Piezo and am one of it's greatest fans. But in my experience even my
7000 with BWPro24 Piezo the dither pattern is far too discernable for
Pictorico.

Maybe the MIS VM (which I also regularly use) may work and I hope that you
will post your results.

I'm all for experimentation and using what materials and printers are
available but I have only been able to get good negs when using the
Burkholder physical density type neg and then only with the 1270/Epson
combo. Other printers, and I've got a 7000, 1160, 3000 and 1290, just don't
work for me. The spectral density neg might be a possibility but I gave up
on that when I started to get good results with the 1270. Maybe you will get
the MIS VM (which I also regularly use) to work and I hope that you will
post your results. I just want to make images and that 1270/Epson  delivers.

Don't I remember Paul talking about a MIS dye ink workflow for digital negs.
Perhaps he might like to comment.

.

Adrian Joyner
Clevedon
England

----- Original Message -----
From: "donbga" <donbryant@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 6:22 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Enlarged Digital Negatives


> Adrian,
>
> > It seems to me that you may have a long development time ahead of
> you to get
> > good results with VM inks. Good Luck. Make sure that you have a
> step wedge
> > as part of your neg and final print and use that to gauge your curve
> > adjustments
> >
> That goes without saying. As a matter of fact I was think about
> starting with a scan of a Souffer's 4x5 step tablet and contact
> printing the digital negative next to the real step tablet.
>
> > I never  got sufficient quality from the 1160 either with Epson or
> Piezo
> > inks and drivers to make good digital negs with Pictorico. Too much
> visible
> > banding and posterization.
> >
>
> By sufficient range do you mean not enough scale or poor gradation
> due to posterization?
>
> > BUT, if you can get hold of a good well setup Epson 1270 then with
> Dan's
> > workflow, Epson inks and Pictorico the results can be stunning.
>
> Part of my goal is not to use Epson inks if at all possible. Having
> said that what processes have you had success with using the 1270 and
> Epson ink?
>
> > With
> > Platinum and other coated papers the process is a little more
> forgiving and
> > great results are fairly easily obtained.
>
> Hmmm, I think you may be generalizing here, have you created digital
> negs of alternative process printing?
>
> > With glossy silver paper that will
> > cruelly show every artefact you will need a carefully controlled
> workflow
> > but the results can be totally indistinguishable from a projected
> print.
> > Strangely the 1270 works very well, but the 1280/1290 printers have
> a very
> > different ink laydown and are no good for me.
> >
>
> I thik that is because the 1280 produces too much ink according to
> Burkholder. Maybe I should sell my 1160.
>
> > If you can get on one of Dan's workshops - do so - they are well
> worth it.
>
> Yes that is what I've heard. I've met Dan in Sante Fe, listened to
> him speak and he is quite a hoot; I'm sure his workshop would be
> great. I have a friend here in Atlanta that has taken his workshop
> and used the 1160 with Piezo inks and driver and got passable results
> until his printer clogged from the Piezo inkset. Eventually I will
> migrate over to the FS-N inkset and use the Piezo driver but not for
> a while.
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Don Bryant
>
>
>
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Adrian,

I have not had time to get to my Piezo-compatible dye inkset yet.  In part
I'm waiting for my 1160 to be repaired.

I'll be trying the Piezo driver, but your experiences with the 7000 & Piezo
driver are not encouraging.  The Pictorico film does have the reputation of
showing ever dot and defect.

>I have only been able to get good negs when using the
>Burkholder physical density type neg ...

What is a "physical density type negative?"

> The spectral density neg might be a possibility ..

What is a "spectral density neg?"

Paul

Paul,
>> What is a "physical density type negative?"
>

A physical density negative as I understand it is one that has 
density created by varying opacities of grey or grey/black ink.
 
> > The spectral density neg might be a possibility ..
> 

Spectral density refers to the apparent density as it relates to the 
sensitized media that is being printed on. Typically these are made 
with CMYK inksets. Since this technique mainly applies to printing 
processes that require UV light, different combinations of ink 
apllied to a transparency material will transmit or block actinic 
light. I suppose it could be used in silver gelatin printing also 
providing some type of masking for contrast control.

Don Bryant

> 
> I said "sufficient quality " not sufficient range.
> 
Sorry, a mental transpositon on my part!

> I've had excellent results with a 1270, Epson inks and driver and 
Pictorico
> film with negs for Platinum and Ziatype prints as well as silver MG 
VI,
> Forte Polywarmtone and Berger papers.
> 

So you have sufficient density to make platinum prints?
Which processes have you used digital negatives for platinum 
printing? Or did you mean a platinum/palladium combination? I'm not 
trying to split hairs but rather discern what density range you are 
getting with your physical density negatives.
 
> I love Piezo and am one of it's greatest fans. But in my experience 
even my
> 7000 with BWPro24 Piezo the dither pattern is far too discernable 
for
> Pictorico.
>

Yes (from what I have read) apparently the 0% dot gain causes the 
dither to become quite obvious.
 
> Maybe the MIS VM (which I also regularly use) may work and I hope 
that you
> will post your results.
> 

Well I'm just crossing my fingers, but I'm pessimistic. It could be 
that decent negatives for gum printing may be able to be made with 
MIS-VM and the 1160.

It may just turn out that digital inkjet negatives will be an 
ellusive goal -- at least for me, for now.

Don Bryant

There was an article recently, last couple of issues ago, in Photo 
Techniques on making digital with Pictorico film. You might try their 
back issues and find the article.

I just wish Paul would answer my post from Sunday

Vinny


- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "donbga" <donbryant@w...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > I said "sufficient quality " not sufficient range.
> > 
> Sorry, a mental transpositon on my part!
> 
> > I've had excellent results with a 1270, Epson inks and driver and 
> Pictorico
> > film with negs for Platinum and Ziatype prints as well as silver 
MG 
> VI,
> > Forte Polywarmtone and Berger papers.
> > 
> 
> So you have sufficient density to make platinum prints?
> Which processes have you used digital negatives for platinum 
> printing? Or did you mean a platinum/palladium combination? I'm not 
> trying to split hairs but rather discern what density range you are 
> getting with your physical density negatives.
>  
> > I love Piezo and am one of it's greatest fans. But in my 
experience 

> even my
> > 7000 with BWPro24 Piezo the dither pattern is far too discernable 
> for
> > Pictorico.
> >
> 
> Yes (from what I have read) apparently the 0% dot gain causes the 
> dither to become quite obvious.
>  
> > Maybe the MIS VM (which I also regularly use) may work and I hope 
> that you
> > will post your results.
> > 
> 
> Well I'm just crossing my fingers, but I'm pessimistic. It could be 
> that decent negatives for gum printing may be able to be made with 
> MIS-VM and the 1160.
> 
> It may just turn out that digital inkjet negatives will be an 
> ellusive goal -- at least for me, for now.
> 
> Don Bryant